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Hi you all folks i have just orderer a Remington model 700 Safari KS from their Custom shop, in .416 Rem caliber ... But as soon as I posted my order, I started to hear all kind of supposed facts concernig high pressure ticks related to this cartridge, worse if used in this particular rifle - with great chances to have a broken extractor (and as Murphy�s mandatory rules state, at the wors�t possible moment ) ... need to say none of the tellers opinions were first hand, always "heard from someone that ..." Is the mentioned rifle worth (always considering it to be used on dangerous game)??????? Is it extractor really weak? remember I am talking about a custom model, supposely to be made better thasn standard ones .... Any personal experiences & opinions ?? Thank you all in advance | ||
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First off, Remington's "production" Custom Shop rifles are not made any better. They are just different models made in much smaller #s. Second, yes, those extractors do break. I've had two of them do so on hot 300 Wby loads. This was in a Custom Shop rifle (AWR). There's a good string just started in the African Big Game page. Remington for Dangerous Game I can tell you what you'll find over there, and from 90% of the people you talk to, but I'll let you draw your own conclusions. [ 10-10-2003, 19:11: Message edited by: TrademarkTexan ] | |||
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except if your candidate for suicide best is to use Sako extractor on rem bolt or D TUBBS extractor and fit a real metal triiger guard , REM factory liight cast alloy is very thin and if you let th erifle fall down you often break it so : Remington custom shop is not the very best you get for your $ , for the same money amount use a SAKO or a Tikka for Hunting I use only SAKO action ( L61 R and two lugs family SAKO action ) and Brno 600 action base rifle WITH blue printing factory Brno are more than rought . good shooting DAN TEC | |||
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I don't know about the Remington rifle, but I have a Winchester Safri Express chambered for the .416 rem. mag. and I have had no problems with it. I have'nt put that many rounds through it yet maybe 30. | |||
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Nobody seems to mention ejection problems which are my main complaint with Remington. A few years, using a Remington 700, I had a empty case hit the scope, bounce back in the magazine only to be fed in backwards, which jammed things up a bit. No doubt that ejection was weak at best. I do not believe this would have happened with a Mauser 98 or pre 64 model 70 Winchester action and for that reason I use them when hunting game but I use push feed actions for shooting varmints as the push feed actions seem to be a bit more accurate, as a whole, than controlled round feed actions. I also have short stroked push feeds and while some would say that is human error and as such it would apply to breaking an extractor while pushing it over a round inserted in the chamber the later can be corrected by a gunsmith and the former can not. Weak Remington ejection problems can be corrected by a gunsmith but there is no doubt the ejection of cases by pre 64 model 70 and Model 98 Mausers can be easy by slowly working the bolt or forcefully by working it smartly. CRF for dangerous game or for bringing the meat home and PF for paper targets and varmints. | |||
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There have been many posts here in support of the controlled round feed for DG. Further I know it's not too uncommon to install Sako extractors to Remington bolts. A friend that deals guns claim's that the extractor failure is high on Remingtons. I have a Rem 700 in .375 and a 721 in .300 H&H...never a complaint personally. | |||
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Any information or web pages for places that do the extractor change would be appreciated. Never hard of D Tubbs, More infor please. Thanks, peartree | |||
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David TUBBS is a US shooter ( one of the best ) who have developp a ligne of product to increase accuracy or reliability of gun for sporting use the web site is zediker web site ( another great shooter ) they sell replacement extractor as SAKO clone but in several size from 223 bolt face up to big mag case http://www.zediker.com/ Sako extractor conversion is very nice on Remington bolt that allow you safeextraction nad be able to replace a broken extractor without any gunsmithing good shooting DAN TEC [ 10-11-2003, 17:55: Message edited by: dantec ] | |||
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Not to get picky, but it is David Tubb (not Tubbs). I went to high school with David and his brother Gary. David is probably the greatest high power rifleman of our age. At one time, both David and Gary as well as their mother and father were world champion rifle shooters. Gary and I went to college together and Gary was an All American rifle shooter while in college. Regards, Terry [ 10-11-2003, 18:59: Message edited by: T.Carr ] | |||
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I am a firm believer in control feed and I detest soldered on bolt handles...I too am more concerned about extraction than feeding, however if one is running and tries to chamber a non controlled feed rifle the cartridge will fall out if he is not carefull.... | |||
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Whaaooo !! What a forum !!! People from all over the world sharing experiences and knowledgement ! Thank you very much for all that info, specially the one concerning the Sako type extractors fro Rem ! ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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I've seen this post for years on many forums. The prevailing opinion is the Sako conversions on Remingtons have more trouble than Remingtons. I'm like Ray on the feeding. I've had more than one turn around and feed backwards. It's no trouble in a varmint rifle but I wouldn't like it at a critical moment. For Plains game I have no trouble with a Remington but not as a DGR. | |||
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There are only two systems that I consider proper for use with dangerous game cartridges, and they are CRF bolt rifles, and Flanged cartridges above .375, and preferably .400,chambered in a well made S/S double rifle. All else are only substitutes for the real thing, IMO! When one considers the fact that it cost no more to buy a CRF rifle, I do not understand the buying, or even the makeing, of a PF rifle, chambered for a dangerous game cartridge! ![[Confused]](images/icons/confused.gif){kind=icon} As to real first hand experience with the tiny tin , extractor failiers, I have seen several fail to extract, either by cutting through the case rim, or braking the extractor. Thse, however were on deer rifles, mostly 25-06, because I will not hunt dangerous game with anyone who uses a PF rifle. I have seen two soldered on bolt handles come off, and one that would fire almost every time the safety was clicked off! Two that have closed on empty chambers, and several that were jammed with two cartrighes in the loading port at the same time ![[Eek!]](images/icons/shocked.gif){kind=icon} I'll have CRF please! ![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif){kind=icon} I own several Mod 700, and 788 push feed rifles, but they are all in cartridges like .223, or 22-250, and one in 7mm mag. They however have never been used on anything bigger, or more dangerous, than Muledeer! But that's just me, you may use what ever you please![ 10-13-2003, 09:29: Message edited by: MacD37 ] | |||
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Let's not forget extractors break on Model 70's too. One well known gunsmith mentioed he had replaced far more extractors on model 70's than on 700's. I have both types in the safe and would not hesitate to use either. When I killed my first Alaskan grizzly i can assure you I was working the bolt for all I was worth on my model 700 in .375. | |||
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I have heard that this cartridge is very often loaded to higher pressure than 416 Rigby, which makes for more difficult/sticky extraction in hot weather or humid climes. | |||
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This is still the same old story. No matter how it gets worded, no matter who is saying it, no matter how much experience there is with it the outcome is the same. A remington is a cheap piece of boiler tubing made into a rifle that meets the company bean counters requirements of profitiblity. Whew.....sorry this really cranks me. They are not a great gun, that is not going to change. If you saved 100.00 over the price of a Win. or 500.00 over the Ruger express and it is substandard then what did you save???? Most everyone can make a Rem shot into 1 hole, so what. That is probably the last in the line of important qualities of a rifle. How about feeding, extraction, weather proof fire control system, etc........ I do not want to dishearten Africanner (sic) but there are better choices. If you are in sub saharan africa there are Sako's, Musgrave, Tikka, Blaser, Wincester, CZ, etc....that all have a satisfactory rifle. ED | |||
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Well, there ya go. While somewhat less than tactful, I fully agree. Especially with Reminton's custom shop guns. You rarely get any additional value for alot more $$. | |||
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Sorryy guys, yesterday was not a "tactful" day . Seems like everywhere I went I was chewing on someone. This is 1 of those inalianible facts thou. They are not good. ED | |||
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Why not go put a coupel of hundred rounds getting ready, spending the money on ammo and practice first. If nothing happens in that time, then you're probably good to go. With all that practice, you'll probably only need one shot anyway. | |||
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yeah hacksawtom Actually,that is what i am doing ... I have already received this Rem 700 Safari in 416 Rem Mag and shot almost 200 rounds ... extractor functions just fine, but ... considering changing it for a sako type, just for more reliability, though mine is just working fine better be cautios (don�t want Murphy as a hunting mate!) Can anyone reccomend any Sako type extractor, or is the mentioned Tubb product reccomended by dantec appears to be the best available? | |||
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There is a thread somewhere in here about Sako extractors on Remingtons. Try a search. As I recall, that is not highly thought of by the majority of the people who posted. I hunt with someone who sold literally thousands of Remingtons over the last 30 years or so and while I don't doubt there have been plenty of bad ones, his experience is that it usually shows up right away. If yours looks good, shoots good and hasn't broken in 200 rounds then the odds are good that it won't go bad on you during your hunt. | |||
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afrikaander, Good luck with your 416. Just curious, are you handloading for it and how do you find the recoil? I have just bought a Winchester Model 70 and am in the process of replacing the open sights (the rear was loose from the factory) and recoil pad. Once thats been done I will be loading 410 grain Woodleighs. | |||
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I've owned and use a lot of Remington 700's and I guess I'm just lucky. I've never had anything break on them or has any trouble. | |||
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this thread does make me chuckle... I have a MOdel 700 in 25-06 and I can honestly say that its the worst-shooting rifle I've ever handled. now, it feeds just fine. but I'll eat worms the day it shoots 1 MOA. its up for sale and a 257wby vanguard in on the way... | |||
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MLG My intention is to reload for it, tough I must tell you I am just starting to learn the basics of reloading ... so far my reloads are only for 30 06 and 375 H&H, and so far I haven�t found the best for any of them (yet!) Concerning recoil, I don�t know why, but for these rem customs rifles,recoil appears to be less than expected... biggest bore rifles I own (a 375 h&H and the mentioned .416 Rem MAg) are both rem custom, and with both of them I find recoil to be milder than experienced shotting same calibers with other rifles ... saying that, with this 416 recoil is something I can perfectly handle with (I remebered that the first time I shot it, I was surprised not to find a much harder kick ... )it do kick, but its recoil is tolerable, and what is better, not difficult at all to place another shot inmediately afterwards | |||
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Put a Sako extractor on it and be done with it, who enjoys wondering how long their POS Remington extractor will last... they will break. I saw one break at the range just two days ago FWIW, although the gent said this one was 12yrs old, never the less, he was packing up and heading home just after he got there to break in his new custom barrel. How'd ya like that to happen on your HUNT!! Sako's go on all mine! I've got one to do right now. I've seen three Rem extractors break, my dad has seen four break, my dad's bolt handle came off... Put Sako extractors on 'em, and drill and screw the bolt handles on... or TIG weld 'em on, and make sure the trigger functions and is adjusted properly. | |||
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quote:http://www.african-hunter.com/lessons_learned.htm | |||
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Put in a Sako and forget about it. Those damn Rems have a tendency to go to hell at the worst possible moment. I'll do you rSako extractor for $95. Give me a call. Jim ' | |||
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actually, he's dead on with several things... 1) remmington magazines are tough to fill, mine is hell, and its only a 25-06 2) mauser magazines are not as perfect as they seem. an 8x57 goes to 30-06 brilliantly, but .308-win is another issue entirely. One thing he doesn't address are the different mauser safeties... seeing as how many have been altered from their original flag-type state to allow fitment of modern optics. I am getting a hankering for a 9.3x62 however... | |||
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I think it is matter of preferance, what rifle you use. If it is going to happen,it's going to happen, I don't care what rifle you have. I have owned several remington's over the years, never had a problem. I own a couple of weatherby's, the only problem I had is a misfire in my .270 weatherby, turned out the firing spring became weak after being left on cocked for a long time. I still have a couple of remington's and weatherby's. I hunt with custom rifle's now, mostly with pre-64 win. actions. With the exception of 1914 custom spingfield action in 35 whelen.  | |||
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Afrikander, I don't know what you ended up doing about your .416 Rem. 700 order. I just want to state that I know 2 very famous PH's who each use a. 416 Remington 700. Last I heard ( which was last week) both were alive and well  Rich Elliott | |||
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O.K., here goes nothing. I understand the argument for c.f. versus p.f. clearly. My question would be of the Sako upgrade for Rem. rifles. Why go to all that trouble and expense when you could just shoot Sako? We'll see what that adds to this fire. | |||
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I have a Sako extractor on my Rem700 338Win. The original 700 extractor never gave me any problems, but I had the bolt opened up to accept the larger case. The Sako extractor is considerably larger than the 700 extractor. But by the looks of that article, EVERY gun has problems. The 700's break extractors and can double up on themselves, the crf don't feed properly, neither pf or crf will reliably eject the case if cycled too fast/slow, Weatherby's are crap (at least that's how I read it), the safety being on the wrong side, too small, accidentally getting knocked off/on, rifles going off when the safety is disengaged... The list just goes on. The one thing that struck me as funny was: Quote:  I'm sure there will be more than a few people upset at that remark Be sure to use your rifle quite a bit before you take it out. Familiarity is a great thing to have with a rifle. Turok | |||
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| <9.3x62> |
I have owned dozens and dozens of 700s (and 721s and 722s) and have put 10s of thousands of rounds through these actions and not ONCE have I had an extraction problem. Now, ejector problems is another story... What exactly is it that causes extractor failure in a model 700, and are these preventable with better rifle and ammo care? | ||
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Quote: I know of one rem 700 in 416 which unexpectedly pops extra cartridges out of the top of the magazine box when the action is worked quicly. Since the chamber only accomodates one cartridge, the result is a jammed rifle. This is a custom shop Remington. I hate to think what the off the shelf remington is like. | |||
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