I am having a rifle built for a trip for Plains Game in the next year or so. I'll use a MRC action and have a 375 RUM. I am sure I'll take flak for the caliber, but I've spent many nights awake thinking about it. No Buff or other wil be included on the initial trip.

Reason I ask is the last Varmint Hunter magazine had an extensive safari planning article included. Two brothers went and listed everything they did and spent. I didn't agree with their calibers, a 6/284 was one of them, but they listed the number of rounds needed to harvest each animal and the shot distances.

Most shots in article were over a 100 yards and some over 200. Depending on accuracy of the new rifle, I may lean towards one gun.

I know several of the members here are traditionalist and hunted many more continents and critters than I have, but I can assure you(s) that I will not top off such a fine machine with a 1.75-6X.

Is there anything wrong with a 3.5-10X VariX-III on such a rig??? Originally wanted a 2.5-8 X, but thought a few X's may help and add versatility to a rig??

Jesse,

Average shot distance depends on what country (and what area of that country) you are hunting.

In two safaris to RSA (Limpopo, Kwa-Zulu Natal and Mpumalanga Provinces) my longest shot was 150 yards. Most under a 100 yards with lots of bush to contend with. Other parts of RSA (Eastern Cape for example) will require many of your shots to be in the 200 to 300 yard range.

I took a .375 H&H as my plains game rifle last season to Tanzania. Shots ranged from 60 yards to 250 yards. I had a 1.75X6 scope on it and I wish I had something bigger.

I have decided to replace the scope on my .375 with 2.5X8. With my .375, I am going to limit my shots to around 250 yards (that is what I am comfortable with for that caliber) so I think 8X magnification should be adequate for that range. I like the 2.5 power at the lower end better than say a 3.5 power. I like the bigger field of view of the 2.5 power if I am trying to find the shoulder of a kudu standing in brush at 60 yards.

Anyway, that is what I have decided to do about scoping my .375.

Regards,

Terry

T Carr,
I'm headed to Tanzania to hunt with Ridge Taylor in Masailand in November with the exact rig you hunted with. A .375H&H with a Leupold 1.75-6 shooting 300 grain failsafes around 2500fps. Shooting buff, grant's, hartebeest, wildebeest etc. What would you have done differently? Was it the gun or scope? Should I take two rifles-one in a 30 mag caliber?

bwanamrm,

Hunting in Masailand the 1.75x6 scope should be fine. The antelope there are so used to people (being around the Masaii) that they aren't that hard to get close to. So I suspect most of your shots will be less than 150 yards. At least that was my experience. Maybe others have had a different experience in Masailand. I don't know if I would have tried a 250 yard shot on a Tommy with my .375 and a 6 power scope, but that may just be my own limitations.

I am going to switch my .375 to 2.5X8 because in the Selous (where the antelope are more wary), the shots can be long. If I had it to do over, I would have taken my .416 and my .300 with me to Tanzania, instead of my .416 and .375.

Be sure and take some solids, I did some pretty bad damage to my Tommy with softs from the .375. Should have shot him with a solid. Also, if you have to put a finishing shot in an antelope, the PH prefered that I use solids (less damage to the hide).

Regards,

Terry

[ 06-03-2003, 05:54: Message edited by: T.Carr ]

bwanamrm,

Drop Jerry Huffaker an email and ask him how far his shots were in Masailand. He hunted with Luke Samaras' outfit and I believe Taylor's concession adjoins Samaras' concession. Should give you pretty good idea of the topography and range of shots.

I think SBT (I'm pretty sure that is his screen name) hunted with Taylor last season. Might drop him a line as well.

I hunted a different area of Masailand.

On a 10 day hunt, I would stick with the .375 (no sense in taking two guns).

Regards,

Terry

[ 06-03-2003, 06:08: Message edited by: T.Carr ]

Jesse, I used a 375 in RSA last summer...Being a groundhog hunter, I practiced with the 375 out to 300yd at a range using my own built shooting sticks. With a 3in high at 100 I new where and how to make the shots. I had to work especially hard to get my shots none were close. Kudu at very long range and I made the shot. Is more optic necessary? Yes I like the 2.5 to 8 or 2.5 to 10.. The 375 with 300 gr fodder really devastates the animals...Good Luck

Mike

Freedom is not Free

My sako 375 has a 1.75-6 and Ive used it on three safari an everything from ele to bushbuck. I did, however, just put a 3.5 -10 on my new 375. I really like larger objectives ie 40 mm for leopard and early and late shooting. The only low power scopes with 40 mm bells are the lps and euro types. Im a leupold fan for life so im trying the 3.5-10 which I will also use for hunting stateside. Unless your trying to impress someone one rifle .375 is enough for everything.

Many thanks for the prompt replies from africa veterans, with no shots on my caliber choice. There are two decent ranges 40 miles each way of home here in NM that have 1000 yd ranges. I am leaning towards the 3.5-10X simply for more fun enjoying the rifle during range time and stretching the distance some.

I don't think I have a flinch yet, and I crank up my 338 into the 2900's, but most of my shooting is groups off the benches. Will indeed be interesting to tear some dirt up with 300 grain projectiles. I need to have some old fillings in my teeth replaced anyways, might as well have some fun getting them to fall out.

Jesse,

If you want to play around, then shooting the .375 at a 1,000 yards is fine. But I would think that is way beyond the ballistic envelope of that cartridge.

If you want to prepare for your hunt in Africa. Then I would suggest you practice at 50 yards to 300 yards (max), shooting from field positions (shooting sticks, off of someone's shoulder, resting on a tree branch). Rapid acquisition of the target and quick offhand follow up shots are critical.

See if you can borrow someone's rifles with a 2.5x8 and a 3.5x10 power scopes and see what the difference is in the highest magnification at 300 yards and also compare the field of view at the lowest powers at 50 yards.

Regards,

Terry

[ 06-04-2003, 07:43: Message edited by: T.Carr ]

Jesse,

I hunted with Ridge last August. Your in for a great trip. The closest shot I had was 35 yards on buffalo, and the farthest was about 125 yards on a Grant's. I would be very happy with a top magnification range of either 6 or 8 power, but then I use 8 power out to 400 yards on Mule Deer.

Terry,
Thanks for the info. I actually have exchanged e-mails with Jerry when I was researching my hunt to Tanzania. His story on using Masai garb to stalk within 100 yards of his Grant's is a great story. I have shot alot of game in southern Africa with the good ol' .375, but hear alot of talk about more open country and longer shots in East Africa. I am planning on carrying one gun if possible, but don't want to handicap myself on this hunt. Thanks again to everyone who posted.

Everyone is different, but I just returned from 12 days in KwaZulu Natal and the OFS and my shots ranged from 40 to 350 yards. I used a .30-06 with 180 Nosler Partitions. There are exceptions, but most people shoot a .30-06 or other rifle in that class, such as the .300 WM, much better than they shoot their (usually) newer to them .375. I'll take a .30-06 and good shot placement over most (not all) .375 shooters anyday.

I used a 3x9x40 Bushnell Elite, most shots were on 9x, 3 were on 3x or 4x. I think that if you can't make the shot with a 6x or smaller then it is almost certainly too far for your abilities. 6x is certainly adequate out to 400 yards or more.

Not knocking the .375, but for plains game it is vast overkill IMO. If I knew I was going to be hunting in very heavy brush, the extra power and greater blood trail ability of the .375 might change my opinion. All that said, it is your money and your hunt, shoot what makes you happy and good luck to you.

[ 06-12-2003, 07:06: Message edited by: Gatogordo ]

I just got back from the Gamtoos River valley in RSA, and used a .375 RUM on everything from kudu and zebra, down to steenbok. Overkill? Sure. But I love the HS Precision rifle. and the trajectory of the RUM is excellent.
That being said, I wish I had changed out the 1.5-5 power Vari-X III to something with more horsepower. Swarovski's 2.2-9, Or even the LPS in 2.5-10 wouldn't lose much at the low end, but gain a lot at the top. I had origionally set the gun up for a Russian brown bear hunt a couple of years ago, and wanted the low end for what I considered dangerous game. Everything's a compromise.
Good hunting!

Very nice. Care to let me in on loads?? I do not intend to run at top velocities, just warmed H+H fps. Trying to throw Eland on the ticket, so I intend to take the new Ultra Mag. Never been yet or shot an Eland, but I have seen several photos of them taken with modern moderate calibers. I have 300 Wby, 338 Win and 350 Rem that would all fill the bills I guess, but the numbers 375 to mean "Africa"

Here are the approximate ranges of my shots on game in South Africa (Limpopo and Kwa-Zulu-Natal):

.308, 180-grain Nosler Partition at 2500 fps
Impala: 90 yards

.350RM, 225-grain Nosler Partition at 2500 fps
Blesbok: 80 yards
Warthog: 90 yards
Kudu: 100 yards
Blue Wildebeest: 175 yards
Zebra: 125 yards
Gemsbok: 80 yards

.376 Steyr, 300-grain Woodleigh PPSP at 2300 fps
Nyala: 12 yards
Waterbuck: 150 yards
Eland: 65 yards
Bushbuck: 50 yards

.470NE, 500-grain Trophy Bonded BC at 2150 fps
Cape buffalo: 30 yards

As you can see 3/4s of my shots were at 100 yards or less, and all were under 200 yards, the distance at which I zero all of my rifles. My scopes were either 2.5X fixed or a 1.5-5X variable set at 3X. The buffalo was taken over iron sights.

[ 06-20-2003, 03:49: Message edited by: Slingster ]

I Did a whole safari, my first back in 1971 with a 7mm Remington Mag with a 4x Leupold. Shot everything except a buff and my PH was kind enough to let me shoot his .375 H+H. I didn't have enough money for another rifle. Since then I gone to some of the varables and I always end up with either a fixed 4x or 6x. I would look into one of the 1.5x to 6x for your .375. My 602 has a Ziess in that power range, along with a fixed 4x Leupold in the same detach mounts. Of late, I been doing more of my rifles with a detach mounts, Talleys and a second scope either a fixed 4x or 6x. When its all said and done, you can't really do much better than the 1.5 to 5 x Leupold. I got one on a .338 and its all you need and then some.

Jesse: I guess life is full of compromises and scope/caliber selection is no exception! I used a Leupold 1.75X6 on my 375. My shots ranged from a 175 yarder on an eland, to 40 on a Wildebeest. If I was using my 375 for plains AND dangerous game, I would strongly recommend the above scope or even a 1.5X5. For strictly plains game, your idea of a 2.5X8 is a sound one. I would definetly not go up any higher in magnification. jorge

I see no actual need for a 375 on a pure plainsgame hunt, its not needed, but its your dollar and it will sure work...then again I see no need what so ever for any scope power over 5X for big game hunting of any kind, it's an American fetish, me thinks....

Last year I shot all my plains game from meat hunting Impala to Eland, Kudu, Zebra, Kongoni, Wart hog and a number of Cape bufflao, all with one gun, a 416 Rem with a 1x4 Leupold...Longest shot was near 450 yards the rest were mostly under 150 yards, except for a one shot instant kill on a Buffalo at 230 yards another at 125...

I used a 370 gr. Northfork, and flat nose solids or some make..oh well!!

I never felt any disadvantage, I have done the same with a 375 and again felt at no disadvantage...One thing I like about big bores is the wind does not move them much and I can hold over 3" or 3' as long as I know my trajectory...The wind will get me sometimes.

Your on the right track, your happy with your decision so have a good hunt.

In an interesting, non-scientific, study of this and other threads on scope power, there's a decided trend of people from regions with generally shorter visibility (from climate or topography) to "swear" by scopes from 0x to 5x, "at the most."

While I've never needed more than 9x except on prairie dogs, I think there is an absolute place for magnifications over 5x. IF you have a solid rest, you can USE 9x on a 400 shot, and I just can't understand that someone would rather have a 4x for that shot. Hey, if that solid rest and good shot aren't there, dial it back down to 4x or 6x and go from there.

As for the original question, either the 2.5-8x or 3.5-10x would be fine. I like the smallest, lightest scope available (in desired magnification range) for sporter-weight rifles with heavy recoils. If the 2.5-8x is lighter, it would probably hold up to recoil better. If not, I think it's a toss-up.

[ 07-25-2003, 03:31: Message edited by: TrademarkTexan ]

I've just returned from a plains game hunt in RSA and upon return I'd use a 3-9X scope like I just used.....I never turned my magnification off 6X all the time I hunted......but I'd invest in a lot better binoculars than I used this time.....

it's your money.....have a ball.......i sure did!!!

Jesse,

I only hunted Namibia to date. This last time I went with a 3x9 Baush and Lomb 3200 on my 35 Whelen. I was very happy with this set-up. I believe the 3x9 gives you all the required range. Even if you keep it on 4x most of the time. I took an oryx at 125 yards, my closest shot to 325 yards on a zebra my farthest. I was glad to have the higher power on that shot. The first hunt I used the Leupold 1.5x5 as did my hunting partner. There were times we wished we had a bit more magnification.

If you've done your hunting here in the states with a lower power scope and feel comfortable with it, then that fine go with it. Also, IMO you don't need more then a 40mm objective lense. There is normally plenty of light for shooting plains game. The larger scope sizes just make the rifle bulky.

BigBullet

Still here with ya'll. Did not lose track. I do use lots of X here in NM. I guess I always have. It is a cycle I can see myself in, but can't do anything about it. When you're young, everything needs to be hot, i.e., women, cars, velocity, etc. I am passing, but not yet passed the aforementioned at 31 years old. I am learning that max velocities are not always the most accurate, hot cars get you tickets....not trim, and maximum X factor get you wobble not steady. Still think I'll be alright with a 3.5-10X. I have not looked thru the specifics of the Leupold models and their specs. Ultimately a 3-9X is not offered in a Vari-X III. I see a few fellows using Bushnell or other. Glad it worked for you, but not on my trip. Without knowing me, I am the bluest of blue collar guys, but no way I am blowing my wad and letting it ride on a Bushnell, Simmons, Tasco or other. If I am spending hundreds on a rifle, and thousands on an International hunt, it will get a Leupold just for insurance alone.

I honestly think if I can shoot the 375 RUM decent enough, it will be my "go-to" gun and carried all of the time and used 90%. If I am spending big $$$ to build it, I am for sure going to shoot it.

[ 07-25-2003, 07:41: Message edited by: Jesse Jaymes ]

What is your preferred hunting style? How patient are you?

If you like to slip through the brush and see what you jump, better have a good low end and not too much high end. The 3 x 9 sounds good. Don't be caught with it scrolled up to 9 while that big bull jumps up in your face and hauls ass.

If you like to glass, spot, and stalk, you can be confident with higher magnification. I hunted Kwazulu-Natal for kudu and the Kalahari for gemsbok. The shots were 280 and 220. I had a 6 x 18 Leupold Vari-X II. It was perfect for the way I like to hunt. I had it set on 18 for the kudu, and about 10 for the gemsbok. (He kept moving and mixing with the herd. I wanted more field of view to keep him singled out.)

Any negative comments regarding high magnification will usually come from other hunter's with different personal preferences. My PH never blinked when I told him what I intended to bring.

I hunted plainsgame in Namibia last August at Gras Ranch. Due to South African Airways misrouting my baggage, I used my PH's rifles for most of the trip: a 7mm Rem Mag, and a .308 Winchester. I took gemsbok, blesbok, steenbok, springbok, kudu, blue wildebeest, warthog, and Hartmann’s zebra. Three trophies went Rowland Ward. My longest shot, in all open terrain, was 256 yards on a springbok.

When my Weatherby Ultra Lightweight .270 Weatherby Magnum finally arrived, I broke it's floorplate. I finished the hunt with the .308.

Since then, I have taken delivery on a custom made D'Arcy Echols Legend rifle. It is chambered in .300 Win Mag, and is topped with a Leupold Vari-X III 3.5-10 x 40mm, at D'Arcy's recommendation. I couldn't dream of a better rig.

[ 07-26-2003, 23:59: Message edited by: wayne nish ]

JesseJames--The 375RUM is just so much flatter in trajectory than the 375 H&H that it might be closer to your 338. Only drawback is increased recoil which approaches 416 level with full loads. I fudged and increased the weight a bit with tungsten rods fore and aft to about 1 1/4# which helped immensely. Mine is a converted 375 H&H in Ruger 77.

My experience: First safari for plains game on the Eastern Cape booked through Ray with Africa Bushveld Safaris in May of this year. I took eight animals with my 300 Weatherby model 70 Winchester using 200 grain Nosler Partitions at a chronographed 3059fps. My scope was a Zeiss 3-9 Conquest. Most of the shots were laser ranged during the hunt or sometimes after the kill.

Impala 180 yards
Blesbok 130 yards
Mountain Reedbuck 150 yards
Kudu 258 yards
Springbuck 156 yards
Gemsbok 174 yards
Duiker 192 yards
Bushbuck 198 yards

Average 179 yards

In a few cases my shots could have been longer (springbuck for example) but we either waited them out or stalked closer. One piece of advice I found interesting and useful I was given by my PH, Andries Nesenberend, was that for most of the standard size calibers (30-06, 270, lighter magnums etc) that are sighted to 1.5 to 2.0 inches high at 100 yards, if you have to hold over you need to get closer. It sure removed a variable from the hunt...just hold on the middle of the shoulder on the animal and shoot. I hope that helps.
Paul

[ 08-31-2003, 04:28: Message edited by: Paul Reed ]

Jesse........I would get BOTH the 3x10 and then a somewhat more compact scope topping out at 5 or 6x . Use one of the good quick detach mounts and have them both along and sighted in , You can play with the 10x anytime you want and maybe use it for load work . There is no way I would go on a trip like that without a spare scope........just my opinion.........

I used my 375H&H with a Leupold 1.75x6 on 9 PG animals from Bushbuck to Zebra in the East Cape with ranges between ~80-300 yards. All but two were one shot kills (bad shot placement on my part on Blesbuck and Gemsbuck). I understand under-kill with the animal taking a while or maybe a couple shots to take down but I don't fathom over-kill. Does that mean the animal dies twice?

BTW I used 250gr Sierra Gameking's on top of 72.5 gr of RL-15

Eastern Cape and shots...I also shot a 375 in summer of 02..I practiced out to 300yds. and told Ph and he laughed and said we are not going to be snipers..But because I practiced I made all the shots...Even one at 400+..I knew the bullet 300gr spizerBT and knew it velocity and drop...Made the shots..But practice makes perfect...I used a LPS 1.75/6x..but I also have QD mounts on the rifle...They worked superb also...

Mike

Freedom is not Free

Paul Reed,

My friends also hunted the eastern cape in April of this year. I think they said the PH's were Kerneels and Andreis, Bushveld Safaris. Must be the same outfit? They had a great trip. I love watching their videos.

dave

If game is very close, you can have too much magnification. If it is far away, you have time to dial it up or stalk closer. Too much magnification up close can get you killed. If 5X won't get the job done at shootable ranges you should practice more. So IMO a 1.5X5 is best. I guess I'm just a crumudgeon
I'll let you know if my theories hold water in a couple of weeks.
Blacktailer

First trip to the Eastern Transvaal had 48 animals taken by about a dozen hunters who had trained together. No scope exceeded 4X magnification. Longest shot was 400 yards. Second longest was about 200 yards. Median shot was 110 yards. Animals included kudu, wildebeest, zebra, mountain reedbuck, klipspringer, bushbuck, duiker, warthog, etc. All but one animal (a zebra) were one-shot stops without serious tracking after shooting. Problem zebra was not caused by lack of magnification, but decision to shoot at running animal that was not impressed by bullet placement.

First trip to Okavanga had a dozen animals taken. Typical shot was less than a hundred yards. One lechwe was about 300 yards. Scopes were 2X or less. Had some trouble with running warthogs, but more magnification would have been a detriment.

Several more trips to the low veldt were successful with low power scopes.

One trip to the high veldt showed a potential benefit for high magnification, e.g., 6X might have helped on blesbok which would not let us approach closer than 250 yards on the barren treeless plain, but was successfully taken with 2X scope.

Locally in Idaho, use two, three, or four magnification fixed-power scopes except when using iron sights with Winchester High Walls and 1886s. Yes, we do use higher magnification on rockchucks, typically fixed eight, ten, or twelve power.

Hammer

Jesse Jaymes,

On our hunt in the Selous, the longest shot we had to take was around 300 yards.

I used our own 375/404 - which is as close to the 375 RUM as you can get.

Scope was a Leupold 2.5-8 - most of the time it was set on 4x.

Power corrupts and absolute power absolutely corrupts!

Speed and precision is required not just precision.

I cannot fathom why anyone requires over 6 power for big game but have seen the need for 2 power on moving game.

Jesse,

I reckon a 2.5-8 power range is just about ideal especially for a .375 that you will use for large & small game. The extra power is mighty handy at the range too.

But just watch the length of the tube on the Vari X III 2.5-8 x 36. I found it too short to mount on a M70 Classic in .375 H&H with Talley rings and bases but the 1.75-6 E scope fitted - only just. Otherwise you need extension rings but I don't like the look of them.

Note that it mounts OK on Saeed's Dakota 76 - which is another M70 clone. So just check first before you buy. In my case it was an expensive mistake. Luckily I could use it on one of my other rifles.