For American hunters seeking to hunt in SA, or Namibia, be advised that farmers have 2 prices...one for South Africans, locals, Europeans, and another price for Americans. Guess which one is higher! I hunted plains annimals in Namibia, 1996, and SA in 1997. A close friend of mine, who is a third generation South African, advised me on these hunts. He initialy contacted farmers, saying that I was American. The prices were exhorbitant. When he contacted the same people again, and said that, he had a friend, who wishes to hunt, the prices were dramaticly lower; because the land owner, assumed that I was South African! I am going back this spring to visit my SA friend and salt water fish the Indian Ocean.

thanks for letting us know. I feel better now. NOT!

cherry boy,

How did the outfitter react when you showed up and he found out you were American?

Regards,

Terry

This is really old news. Back in 1988, my friends found two price lists in their rooms at Thabazimbi Safaris (Gerritt Louw & George Marx).

The numbers were the same, but one was in Rand and the other was in dollars (the exchange rate at the time was 2 Rand to the U.S. dollar).

Ask for the 'biltong rate' next time.

George

Unfortunately what you experienced is a fact of life in many parts of the world. We are viewed as having more money than sense.

Travel and tours here in Venezuela are almost double the price if you are a Gringo compared to a National. Same thing applies when shopping.

My wife is my secret weapon. If I see something I want, I send her after it. That tactic hit home hard some years ago. We were spending a few days in the Andes, and were about to return home. We drove to the village's vegetable market. My wife told me to stay in the car because my Gringo face drove the price too high. If she hadn't said it in such a nice way, she'd have hurt my feelings.

It's tough being a 'merican. Relax and don't let it get to you.

Before we get to feeling too sorry for ourselves keep in mind we here in the US are one of the richest countries around. We have driven prices up in Africa to the point that VERY few locals can afford to hunt at our prices. So I guess we subsidize the local hunters, BIG DEAL! Africa is still a bargin.

RANT WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The fact we are charged more is due in part to the perception we are "rich" and can afford it, but this is only a small part of the story. The MAIN reason is our(American) belief that "You get what you pay for". This is a crock-of-shit! Do you really believe you get a better hunt if you are charged $350 a day than you would if the outfitter charged $250 a day? If you do you are not only a fool but you very well may be an American.

Ranches set their prices accordingly. Sure they may make good money at $150 a day but they know Americans will not hunt with an outfit that charges less than the average. They bump their prices up to $300 a day and us STUPID F*****G AMERICANS can't get our deposits in the mail fast enough.

I don't mean to offend anyone, I just wish we looked at ourselves as opposed to blaming others. I will be the first to admit I have looked down my nose at low priced hunts. When I booked in 2000 I went with an outfit that came highly reccomended. They only charged $112(250 German marks) per day, needless to say I did not expect much. I had the time of my life and took very good trophies that were all well above the SCI minimum. You don't always get what you pay for.

Jason

[ 01-29-2003, 13:55: Message edited by: J Brown ]

Maybe this is a simplistic or naive view, but there is also the supply-and-demand issue at work here, I believe.

Here are some theories which may or may not be valid:

If African outfitters charged their countrymen the same as they did Americans, only Americans would be clients--African nationals could not afford to hunt.

If African outfitters charged American the same as their counytrymen, they could not earn enough to make safari operations worthwhile.

If African outfitters did not have locals in the income stream, they would charge Americans even more, to make up for the deficit.

So in a sense Americans are subsidizing the locals, but it is a matter of economic necessity, not gouging.

South African Airways has different (lower) fares for flights originating in Africa to the U.S. and back, than it does for flights originating in the States. If it didn't, most Africans could not afford the trip. And although they get a lower fare, in a way the African travelers are keeping our fares lower, because they constitute a part of the profit margin. If fewer of them could afford to fly, our fares would be higher to make up the difference.

Of course, it COULD simply be that the airlines and safari industry have decided to charge us more because we'll pay the price, and the economic ability of their own people isn't even considered.

What do you think?

[ 01-29-2003, 17:04: Message edited by: Nitro Express ]

I think if you're that worried about about it, book a $5,000 whitetail in Texas and call it good.

DesertRam:

I am not WORRIED about anything; I was merely responding to the topic at hand.

Personally I have no problem with the daily rates for most safaris, and if I don't like an outfitter's daily rate, I go to someone else.

Ditto for SAA--I enjoy driving 20 minutes to the airport here in Atlanta and getting a direct (usually) flight to RSA.

I don't worry about the SAA "seasonal" fares, as I see no value in carping over a couple of hundred bucks when a $10,000 or better hunt is on the books.

The one area I DO think African outfitters gouge us a bit is on "observer" fees. Unless the observer has a private tour guide, vehicle, and separate meals, the daily rate for observers probably amounts to several hundred percent profit. I'm not anti-profit, but observers could probably pay $50-$75 a day and still represent a profit to the outfitter. $150-$180 just seems out of bounds.

BTW, I've been on one of those $5000 Texas deer hunts and while they are a lot of fun, I could shoot a bunch of African animals for the same amount, or even one or two "big" animals, like buffalo. So, I am not going back to Texas anytime soon.

[ 01-29-2003, 20:30: Message edited by: Nitro Express ]

Nothing personal there Nitro, my post was intended sarcastically. I was simply trying to point out the benefits of ALL that you get on an African hunt, even paying the "Rich American" rates, in comparison to said Texas hunt, or a guided elk hunt in NM, or a brown bear hunt in Alaska, or... Well you get the picture. I've not hunted Africa, but I'm currently planning my first safari BECAUSE of the value, even if some think that Americans get hosed on price. The single-dimensionality of the internet is sometimes a real pain...

Thank you all for your responces. My Namibia outfitter, was surprised, but very cordial. We had a great hunt, with no hard feelings. I tipped him good, and gave him a knife. He gave me one of his personal knives, which I cherish. I still believe that a hunt is a hunt...and the price, of which, should be the same, no matter where you come from.

There might be a few other reasons no one has mentioned. (1) It has been my experience that Euroopean hunters tend to want to shoot the older, past their prime trophies that are unusual (like a one-horned kudu) or could even be called grotesque by Americans...one's we wouldn't even consider shooting; (2) a lot of Europeans only want the skull & horns making trophy prep quite a bit easier plus the owner gets to keep the entire skin; and (3) I get the impression most local hunters are more interested in getting away and having a good time than they are in big trophies thus making it much easier (and cheaper) to provide the services they want.

I might be off-base with this but it also may be pretty close to the truth.

I am not familiar with what European hunters desire in the way of African trophys. My wife shot a Kudu in Northern SA, that had one horn. My friend, from SA,who was managing the farm, at the time, said that he was glad to get rid of it.

The Canandian situation is the same. I had asked a pal from Calgary to book for me several years ago. He refused in a nice way, explaining along the same lines as detailed in some of the previous posts.But do the math on a sheep hunt and factor in that you live a few hours from the border . It gets to you!

I live in South Africa and work in the hunting industry, and it mostly works this way. If you're a local in SA you pay meat hunting prices and shoot young antelope and females and you have no PH with you, and no paperwork is done other than the hunting permit or licence depending upon what type of game you're hunting. ie open, ordinary, protected etc. You also cater for yourself etc. If you're from overseas then you have to have a PH by law. He writes out his hunting register and gives you the top copy. The second copy of that same register is sent to the game dept or parks board and it serves as the first step in organising the export licences and permits for your trophies. Without that first piece of paper nothing happens.

Most safari lodges should charge the same price to all overseas customers. You notice I say should, many concession owners do have 3 price lists. 1 for locals 1 europeans and 1 American. Whilst I understand that there needs to be one price for locals who shoot meat animals without being supplied catering and PH etc and another for overseas clients who get all the trimmings. I do also find it appalling that many concession owners overcharge overseas clients as much as they do.

I recently spoke to the owner of a concession I've been using for 15 years and he showed me his 2003 price list. All he had done was to change the Rand sign to a Rollar sign......... there's around 8 to the $. Needless to say I won't be going there for a few years!.... if ever

Having said that the same thing happens everywhere else in Africa. A local Tanzanian can buy a buffalo licence for around $25! ain't life a bitch!

We Americans shouldn't complain too much about the African price gouging without looking at our neighbors to the North. I was in the Yukon last year hunting another species and discovered that Yukon territory resident can buy Dahl's sheep tags for something like $10. All you guys trying to fill your grand slams should consider moving I think.

JohnTheGreek