I thought I'd post a copy of the thread I started on Benchrest Central here.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...13/wiran13.xml
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...07-401,00.html

It seems that Iran has supplied some of the 800 50 cal rifles it bought from Steyr to insurgents in Iraq.

Despite assurances from Iran that they don't supply weapons to anti-coalition forces in Iraq, it only took 45 days from the weapons being delivered to Iran before a US officer in Iraq was killed with one of these rifles.

Over 100 of these rifles have now been recovered in Iraq.

There has been a lot of talk about Iran supplying insurgents with weapons to use against coalition forces over the past couple of weeks. I wonder if this is to make the public sympathetic if/when the US destroys Iran's nuclear facilities? I just hope that whatever path the US chooses actually makes us all safer...

Regards
Ben

Neither one of these links worked, source your statement for over 100 .50 Cal. Steyrs have been recovered in Iraq.

I got the links from Google News yesterday. I did a search there today (Iran and Steyr) and got

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/0...ional/i060544S40.DTL
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/usworld/news-article.aspx?storyid=75860

It appears that the source of the story is Britain's Daily Telegraph newspaper. I'd like to know if it's true - apparently no-one has contacted Steyr for the serial numbers of the Iranian contracted rifles.

The US government has certainly been suggesting that Iran is supplying other weapons to insurgents/terrorists.

Regards
Ben

American suppplied Barret 50 cal rifles also killed many British soldiers in Northern Ireland.

Irish Paul,

I'd need to see some documentation on that. Barrett
can supply the customer database records, if the brits ask. We currently have an arms embargo against Ireland, have had for years. As a matter of fact, I called them and suggested they check this post out earlier today. They told me if a Barrett
firearm was in Ireland it was smuggled in and not a legitimate sale by the company. Perhaps you could personally shed some light on that possibility, traveling as you do between the US and Europe?
The Iranian govt can tell us exactly how those rifles got out of the armoury in Teheran and a couple hundred miles away to Jihadi boys in Iraq.

Rich
DRSS

The Iranian Steyr 50s story is stinking like 3 day old fish. More of the "hard" intell of the type the Bushites used to sell the war with Iraq.

quote:

I'd need to see some documentation on that. Barrett can supply the customer database records, if the brits ask. We currently have an arms embargo against Ireland, have had for years. As a matter of fact, I called them and suggested they check this post out earlier today. They told me if a Barrett firearm was in Ireland it was smuggled in and not a legitimate sale by the company.

Not exactly documentation, but a quick Google lends credence to the allegation http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20020325/ai_n12597423 or http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4284048.stm or http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/ira/inside/weapons.html or http://www.eliteukforces.info/weapons/barrett/

I learned from a friend who is a former SAS that they seized really a lot of US weapons, favorites were AR10, AR 15, M16 among IRA groups..

There's another logical reason why the Steyr 50 in Iraq story smells so bad. A 50 is a real pain in the ass to move, hide, and learn to shoot well, not to mention the optics costs. Why in the world would anyone who is arming what is at best half trained militia types send them 100 50s when for the same money they could send them about 1000 AKs which would certainly be more practical for what they are doing? I'm amazed at how many people fell for this bullshit and still are.

Add the difficulty to find . 50 BMG ammo, Iraq was mainly equipped with soviet 12,7 mm or 14,7 mm weapons.

With the large amount of 14.7 Russian ammo around maybe they could use the PTRD as was used againts the UN forces in Korea.

Hey guys,
I am glad to see that y'all are keeping your heads about you on this issue... No reason to go off half-cocked....
On the IRA Barrets, I am 100% SURE that Barrett Firearms had NO KNOWLEDGE about their .50 rifles going to the IRA... Ronnie Barret is too straight of a guy to allow his weapons to knowlingly go into those types of hands..
Secondly, I personally own a Steyr HS .50 and have had some personal dealings with the company and I have a couple of "facts" about these Iranian HS rifles...
1st. This deal for these rifles to Iran was consumated back in 2004 between Steyr Austria and the Iranian gov. The US State Dept. tried to intervene on the deal, but they offered Steyr nothing in returnfor their canceling it.. Besides, there was no agreed upon international embargo against Iran at that time, so even though that deal may seem "unethical" to some, it was in NO WAY "illegal" according to international law...
2nd. The original deal was for a SIGNIFICANT amount of these rifles and Steyr Austria "broke off" the deal before it was all completed. So, the number of rifles actually shipped to Iran was MUCH less then the original agreed upon amount of the deal...
Steyr USA will be issuing a press release about this whole Iran/Iraq/HS Rifle situation VERY soon... When I get it, I will be glad to post it here...

Edmond,

Iran has its own munitions factories so 50 BMG ammo is no problem.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Irish Paul,

I'd need to see some documentation on that. Barrett
can supply the customer database records, if the brits ask. We currently have an arms embargo against Ireland, have had for years. As a matter of fact, I called them and suggested they check this post out earlier today. They told me if a Barrett
firearm was in Ireland it was smuggled in and not a legitimate sale by the company. Perhaps you could personally shed some light on that possibility, traveling as you do between the US and Europe?
The Iranian govt can tell us exactly how those rifles got out of the armoury in Teheran and a couple hundred miles away to Jihadi boys in Iraq.

Rich
DRSS

Sorry for the delay in replying. I was in a car crash!

http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&q=.50+rifles+in+Northern+Ireland&meta=


This shows just some of the many examples of the IRA using .50 cal rifles.
They were purchased legally by American Citizens, and mailed to Northern Ireland via Dublin. This went on for some years before a careless Postal employee in the Sherriff St sorting Office in Dublin knocked over a crate, and a Barret rifle fell out.

My point was that where these rifles that are killing our boys in Iraq are coming from is not relevant. (Unless one needs an excuse to bomb Iran now)

quote:

Originally posted by PJS50:
Hey guys,
I am glad to see that y'all are keeping your heads about you on this issue... No reason to go off half-cocked....
On the IRA Barrets, I am 100% SURE that Barrett Firearms had NO KNOWLEDGE about their .50 rifles going to the IRA... Ronnie Barret is too straight of a guy to allow his weapons to knowlingly go into those types of hands..
Secondly, I personally own a Steyr HS .50 and have had some personal dealings with the company and I have a couple of "facts" about these Iranian HS rifles...
1st. This deal for these rifles to Iran was consumated back in 2004 between Steyr Austria and the Iranian gov. The US State Dept. tried to intervene on the deal, but they offered Steyr nothing in returnfor their canceling it.. Besides, there was no agreed upon international embargo against Iran at that time, so even though that deal may seem "unethical" to some, it was in NO WAY "illegal" according to international law...
2nd. The original deal was for a SIGNIFICANT amount of these rifles and Steyr Austria "broke off" the deal before it was all completed. So, the number of rifles actually shipped to Iran was MUCH less then the original agreed upon amount of the deal...
Steyr USA will be issuing a press release about this whole Iran/Iraq/HS Rifle situation VERY soon... When I get it, I will be glad to post it here...

PJS50:

I just bought a Steyr HS50. How do you like yours? Any tips to pass on? I'm about ready to shoot it now.

quote:

There's another logical reason why the Steyr 50 in Iraq story smells so bad. A 50 is a real pain in the ass to move, hide, and learn to shoot well, not to mention the optics costs. Why in the world would anyone who is arming what is at best half trained militia types send them 100 50s when for the same money they could send them about 1000 AKs which would certainly be more practical for what they are doing? I'm amazed at how many people fell for this bullshit and still are.

Fatcat how much time have you spent

1. In Iraq
2. In combat.

Zero to both answers, the answer to number 2 is the same as our fucking idiot in chief and his enabler Cheney, btw. Please produce pics of this horde of Steyrs. Since I answered your question, answer this one.....tell me how far you've carried a 30 pound Steyr or any 50 around in combat since you're so knowledgeable.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
Edmond,

Iran has its own munitions factories so 50 BMG ammo is no problem.

Rifles have been supposed to have being seized in Eyerack, insurgents must have mobile ammo factories?

http://www.steyr-mannlicher.com/



Statement regarding weapons found in Iraq

1. The export of 800 STEYR MANNLICHER guns back in 2004/05 to Iran as a country not at war had been approved by the Austrian authorities in accordance with the legal requirements. STEYR MANNLICHER has – just as with all other exports – fully obliged to the conditions of the Austrian authorities.

2. STEYR MANNLICHER is mainly producing weapons for hunting. The company also supplies public authorities. STEYR MANNLICHER exclusively supplies governments, i.e. government units such as antiterror units. The delivery of 800 weapons to Iran was with an end-user certificate to the Iranian police forces for use in combating drug trafficking.

3. The serial numbers of the guns found in Iraq have so far not been forwarded to the producer for identification. In order to find out whether the weapons have been produced by STEYR MANNLICHER the production/serial numbers need to be checked. Only then will it be possible to clarify whether these are products originated in Austria.

4. Since the international license for these guns has already expired, these weapons can be copied any time by other producers.


STEYR MANNLICHER points out that STEYR MANNLICHER itself is interested in complete clarification of the origin of these guns and has offered the US authorities full cooperation

Erklärung zu im Irak gefundenen Waffen

1. Der seinerzeitige Export von 800 STEYR MANNLICHER Gewehren im Zeitraum 2004/05 in den Iran als nicht Krieg führendes Land war entsprechend den gesetzlichen Bestimmungen durch die österreichischen Behörden bewilligt. STEYR MANNLICHER erfüllte - ebenso wie bei allen anderen Exportlieferungen – alle Auflagen der österreichischen Behörden.

2. STEYR MANNLICHER ist vor allem Produzent von Jagdwaffen. Außerdem beliefert das Unternehmen Behörden. Das Unternehmen liefert AUSSCHLIEßLICH an Regierungen bzw. Regierungs-Stellen, wie etwa Antiterror-Einheiten, und nie an private Waffenhändler oder Firmen. Die Lieferung von 800 Waffen an den Iran erfolgte mit Enduser - Zertifikat zum Zweck der Drogenbekämpfung an die iranische Polizei.

3. Die Seriennummern der im Irak aufgetauchten Gewehre wurden bisher nicht zur Identifizierung durch den Hersteller eingereicht. Um festzustellen, ob es sich um STEYR Gewehre handelt, müssen die Produktions-Nummern geprüft werden. Erst dann ist es möglich, klarzustellen, ob es sich um Produkte aus Österreich handelt.

4. Da die Lizenz für diese Gewehre international bereits abgelaufen ist, können diese Waffen jederzeit von anderen Erzeugern nachgebaut werden.


STEYR MANNLICHER betont, dass STEYR MANNLICHER selbst an einer lückenlosen Aufklärung über die Herkunft dieser Gewehre interessiert ist und hat den US-Behörden volle Zusammenarbeit angeboten.

quote:

Originally posted by Irish Paul:
American suppplied Barret 50 cal rifles also killed many British soldiers in Northern Ireland.

Ireland has never attacked the USA, Britian has!

quote:

Originally posted by ScudRunner:

quote:

Originally posted by Irish Paul:
American suppplied Barret 50 cal rifles also killed many British soldiers in Northern Ireland.

Ireland has never attacked the USA, Britian has!

Sorry! Irish regiments had a parade in 1762 in NY after they came to enforce law and order..

Edmond,
NYC and LA aren't part of the USA. Sheeze

Gatogordo, you idiot. Who in the hell wants to take yur 50 away ( that is if you have one ) You better get on board aganist the Dumocrat party if you want to have a gun in the future.

beachbum:

While probably the most important one issue for me, the right to bear arms takes a second seat against some moron like Bush taking us to war in Iraq. I wouldn't vote for ANY Republican that supports the continuation of Iraq and I may or may not (likely won't) vote for a Democrat.

BTW, rocket scientist, how well off do you think your guns will be under the leading Republican, Giuliani?

Gatogordo, would you sit on your arse while the terrorists shipped a nuke into NY harbour, or TX where our refineries are, or LA ? On the first day of the war Marine units took outa terrorist training camp 20K's south of Bagdad with trainees from 9 middle east/ african countries.

People who scream about " no WMD's were found " need to realize one thinf. The ultimate WMD is a terrorist who isn't afraid to die, and we took out that " factory ".

Where would you rather have the roadside IED's, Iraq or along I 10 in TX.

Its fight them there or here, remember 9/11 ?

If you care to actually research the issue yourself you will see all Pres. Bush ever stated was it will be a long war, and he was right.

quote:

Originally posted by beachbum:
Gatogordo, would you sit on your arse while the terrorists shipped a nuke into NY harbour, or TX where our refineries are, or LA ? On the first day of the war Marine units took outa terrorist training camp 20K's south of Bagdad with trainees from 9 middle east/ african countries.

People who scream about " no WMD's were found " need to realize one thinf. The ultimate WMD is a terrorist who isn't afraid to die, and we took out that " factory ".

Where would you rather have the roadside IED's, Iraq or along I 10 in TX.

Its fight them there or here, remember 9/11 ?

If you care to actually research the issue yourself you will see all Pres. Bush ever stated was it will be a long war, and he was right.

Maybe you've been out of the loop, south of Key west, maybe you don't get Fox news, or CNN, or BBC or even press releases from the White House.
Here's the news flash:
IRAQ WAS THE SAFEST COUNTY IN THE MIDDLE EAST UNTIL THE INVASION WITH NO HISTORY OF SUPPORTING TERRORISM AND NO WMD's

quote:

Its fight them there or here, remember 9/11 ?

WOW! you're REALLY out of the loop. The Taliban in Afghanistan hid Osama, and ALL of the 9/11 perps were from Saudi. Do YOU remember 9/11. There was and is NO evidence of Iraqi involvement in 9/11 even the GWB White House has reluctantly admitted this.

Do some reading and then some thinking and then some writing. For the sake of the rest of us, or you can alway post in the crater.

BTW, can we get back on topic.

beachbum:

My mistake, I assumed you had some basic knowledge of the topic. They say ignorance is bliss and I'm sure you're very happy.

Collins, safest for who ?

Are all the bodies in the mass graves safe ?

Are all the oppisition party members who were tortured in prison safer ?

Are their wives who were raped by the Republican Guard safer ?

I watched a 1 hour show on the Military Channel this morning in which the Marines fought the trainees in the terrorist training camp 20K's south of Bagdad............
The captured terrorists had US currency, maps, cell phones, IED deonators, and ID THAT SHOWED WHERE THEY CAME FROM...........
The Marines lost men KIA and wounded in this battle..................
This was ONE OF MANY CAMPS LIKE THIS.............

Now I don't put much stock in CNN. I know what I saw on the Marines home movies. The raw unfiltered truth, unlike what you get from CNN

So they made all this up ? The Marines were fighting no one ? Did they shoot and wound their own men just to have those movies ?

Now who is living in a bubble ?????

As far as staying on topic, Gatogordo started on this, I just called bullshit where I saw it.

If you are infantile enough to beleive what you hear on CNN you don't need a 50 cal.

Collins, I just looked where you come from, the land of Hillary. You dumbasses voted her in...thanks.

I'll bet you would be first in line to surrender your 50 when she takes it.

quote:

Originally posted by beachbum:
I watched a 1 hour show on the Military Channel this morning in which the Marines fought the trainees in the terrorist training camp 20K's south of Bagdad..
Now I don't put much stock in CNN. I know what I saw on the Marines home movies. The raw unfiltered truth, unlike what you get from CNN

So they made all this up ? The Marines were fighting no one ? Did they shoot and wound their own men just to have those movies ?

Now who is living in a bubble ?????

As far as staying on topic, Gatogordo started on this, I just called bullshit where I saw it.

If you are infantile enough to beleive what you hear on CNN you don't need a 50 cal.

You watched a TV Show OOooohhhhh Aaaaahhhh, I guess I should just defer to your superior... Um... TV watching ability.

quote:

Collins, I just looked where you come from, the land of Hillary. You dumbasses voted her in...thanks.

I'll bet you would be first in line to surrender your 50 when she takes it.

There's not enough room to list everywhere I was stationed during my 11 years of service, including PG War 1. Where were you stationed? Texas ANG with George?

Beachbum... Kinda says it all doesn't it.

Get your news from youtube if you want. Just post your blather in the ignorance crater where you and your mindless banter belong.

Edited---"You weren't there... STFU."---

You CAN understand the situation without having "Been there" or having served. but you'd better have an open mind and know that Iraq was an ally of the US for MANY years and we sent millions of tons of ordinance to them that's now being used against us. I think this level of understanding is beyond where you may be willing to think.

Well now Collins, that is some diatribe. But you did not answer my questions........why ?

Do you think the Marines were lying and faked the home movies ?

Did they kill and wound their own men inside that terrorist camp ?

Did frontline grunts gather ID's from all those countries just before they attacked that camp so they would have them for their movies ?

Yes, it came from a TV show, but I didn't write or tape it, Marines did.

How about the mass graves, rapes, tourture, and murder commited by Saddam.

How about the terrorists being trained by Iraq to come to the US and kill us.

Do you really think if we leave them alone they will leave us alone ?

I am willing to apoligize for my former comments if you will consider my questions and answer them.

As for my beachbum name, thats my hobbie now. It used to be 11B2V, 79-83.

As far as Iraq being a former ally, I can certanly think at that level. Go to the next level and look at the world in general, you must understand is that is very commen. During our 200+ years as a country we have made many treaties and alliances. They are constantly changing, thats nothing new or sinister. Study history and you will see it.

I've said pretty much what I wanted to say here... re-read it and let some of it settle in. I've been reading some of your 23 (angry, attacking, unfounded, OFF TOPIC) posts and to be honest, I don't think you add much value to the forum. The political forum is where you might want to write... It's referred to as the ignorance crater. Most of us post there once in a while, but I think you may find that you'll be right at home.

You talk about voting a lot. We'll I guess you've got a lot to look forward to when you turn 18. I've voted in every election since 1982 and only in VERY rare instances voted for a democrat. I'm smart enough not to blindly "Pull the Handle" (It's voting lingo, you'll figure it out once you see the inside of a voting booth) for the Republicans, but in 99.9% of the cases I'm NOT going to let the Democrats do my thinking. I don't hate George Bush, as long as I have a military commitment he's my Commander in Chief. He's just made some strategic errors that has turned a productive society into another Somalia. (it's a country in Africa)

Now, for a little time with the grown-ups. Howdy Boys! I'm back, had to chat to the children... Anything good going on in the topic?

Well still no answers ?????????

Boy common sense really throws you a curve huh.

OK, for someone who is a vet dosen't 11B2V mean anything to you ???????????

Your bullshit is starting to wear thin.

Still waiting on answers.

Answer, after 2 years and 1600 or so posts, you're the first person on my ignore list. b,bye bum

What an honour and a privilege!

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:
What an honour and a privilege!

And I've done my time in the crater!!!

And I've "Conversed" with Cool!

I guess if I want a less silly argument I've always got those two...

Anyway, Back on topic!!!
------------------------------------------
Since 1991 ALL the weapons in Iraq were imported.

Wow, I've outed a keyboard commando ! I cornered him posing as a vet, which he obviously isn't. I wonder what other bullshit he has slung around here. He thinks "ignore" will give him his credibility back !!!

Man, that didn't take long.

Ok, now that you're one of us it's time to grow up and stay on the topic.
Just because you think you won a battle you still can loose the war.
You're dancing around the burning garbage can, are you looking for attention?

beachbum,

I'll buy in that game...define an eleven-foxtrot-four-Pappa for the crowd.

Rich
DRSS

Oh No....50BMG Styer in the hands of insurgents in iraq will have a very negative tally for the Good Forces!!!May God protect the Good with HIS armour!!!