I had one of these go off in the bore. Talk about muzzle blast! Is this normal once in a while? Think there is any damage to the barrel? Anyone else have this happen?

Wow! Never heard that one. Do tell more.

Interesting indeed, as these normaly require a impact to the nose before they "ignite".
Photo 1 is a 50cal spotter tracer round, note the nose mounted detonator


Photo 2 is a 1941 303 British incendiary Mk VI, again note the nose mounted initionator

Well this is the first one I've experienced. The barrel doesn't have any obvious bulges, but the last 8" or so has what looks like HEAVY copper fouling. I'm letting it soak with Wipe Out each day. Hopefully that will eventually clear it out. Thanks for the pictures. Have you ever cut open a blue tip? I know the M8 API's I've cut open don't have a detonator like those.

I haven't, those photos are the work of Paul Smith in Alberta,Canada.
The point I was making however, is that they are nomaly set off by a nose impact. I suppose that it is possible that the shock of launch caused it to light (esp if the filler core had been dammaged in the past).

You can see more of Mr Smiths work here http://cartridgecollectors.org/cmo/cmoindex.htm
August of 2007 is kind of unique for a small arm (8mm) projectle

So the last 8" of bore has some wicked fouling. It's rough, kind of yellowish, seems harder than jacket material and seems resistant to the normal bore cleaning products/procedures. Does anyone have any ideas on getting this crud out?

If anyone knows what the incendiary mix is, that might help figure out what will dissolve its residue. I think the next thing I'll try is acid because I'm out of ideas.

I am under the opinion that the .50 spotting round was the only small arms ammo that was/is not drop safe. You had a detonation inside the bore. I would fill the bore with the old rifle boar cleaner, let it sit for 24 hours and follow up with a brass bore brush. Good Luck.

So was it a blue tip, spotter tracer or what? I wish I hadn't read this. Now I'm going to flinch every time I shoot an incindiary in my 50. What gun did this happen in?

The M48A1 spotter ammo has a yellow HE and a red tracer band on the tip of the round. The cut away photo shows the shallow hollow point and cap on the round. Talon sells the projectiles as loaded ammo. I would think long and hard on shooting this stuff out of a very expensive gun.

I'm familiar with spotter ammo and have shot a bunch. Jim, Talon is out of business and has been for several years. Their ammo was junk. They didn't even bother to resize projectiles and many were out of round and wouldn't even chamber. I still have some spotter tracers reloaded from Talon that won't chamber in a 50bmg.

My question to JPL is to find out exactly what type of round he shot as there are several different incindiary 50's out there. Also were you shooting ammo that you reloaded. The only incindiaries available to civilians are de-milled, pulled military surplus and you can buy the projectiles either resized or unsized.

I'd just like to know more about what went down the barrel and what caused it.

I posted the 2 photo's to show the internal construction of 2 types of "nose detonated" rounds, not to confuse the issue.
The OP stated that he was using "blue tip incendiary".

As a side note, someone mentioned that the 50 ST was the only small arms ammo that you don't want to drop, several militaries in WW-2 had explosive ammo for there small caliber guns, the Jap 7,7 semi-rimmed "flat tip" (explosive) is another one you don't want to drop, and there's a german 8mm round that has a loose "pin" inside that vigerous shaking may set off (this one has the detonator behind the PETN, and on impact the pin slams forward into it). IIRC the US is about the only country that didn't use explosive bullets in their "standard" SA cal weapons.

I don't see where he said it was a blue tip. He asked if you had ever cut one open. I don't see how a blue tip could explode in a barrel but I guess anythings possible. I just want to know more I have several hundred bluetips and they are my favorite to shoot but I also like shooting red tip tracers and silver tip API's.

Like I said, I'm going to develop a hell of a flinch thinking about this everytime I shoot an incindiary unless we find out something else caused it.

I have seen it happen seeral times. even cooler when they blow just outside the barrel. I heard it was due to bullets being out of round from demill and not properly sized when reloaded. I know that spotter rounds will self destruct if you reload to 50bmg specs. They were designed for the slower 50 spotter. Supposidly the gases will leak around the projectile and ignite the incendary compound.

FWIW
Bob

Bob I hadn't heard it before now but had a hunch it may be caused by out of round demilled bullets. Pat's reloading sells them both sized and unsized. I've bought them both ways. Some of the unsized bullets are pretty badly deformed, they cost a lot less but are more work to run through a sizing die. I wouldn't dare shoot them without sizing but there's some guys out there that do. I don't think talon sized all the ammo they sold.

Have you ever seen a gun damaged from an incindiary going off in the barrel?

It was a pulled and properly resized blue tip this time, but I've also had one M8 API do this a while back. That wasn't as dramatic and didn't leave a bunch of rough yellow/orange crud in the barrel. When they normally go off on a target there is a cloud of yellowish smoke and a big black mark. Anyone know what's in these and what might dissolve the residue? I tried some vinegar and that didn't seem to do anything. The barrel is stainless, so I should be able to use some different chemicals without hurting the bore much. Ideas?

If you are a member of FCSA (fifty cal. shooters assn.) you can get on their website forums and find out just about anything. My membership is currently expired so I can't help you out there. I'm sure someone there has dealt with this before. What type gun were you shooting?

I have seen them go off in the m2 with no damage. sounded like te timing was off on the gun. Saw one go off in a bolt action and it turned the muzzle break black and did some minor cosmetic damage to the break, but nothing major.

What does the timing/ headspace have to do with an ammo malfunction in the bore? I do not think you have ever seen a M-2 fired, you sure do not understand the process of setting up the gun. You sound like an armchair commando to me. Put up or shut up.

quote:

Originally posted by jpl:
So the last 8" of bore has some wicked fouling. It's rough, kind of yellowish, seems harder than jacket material and seems resistant to the normal bore cleaning products/procedures. Does anyone have any ideas on getting this crud out?

That sounds like hard carbon fouling, which is common with overbore rounds (think .17 Remington, .220 Swift Improved, .257STW).

Try "Carbon Killer" by Slip2000.

George

quote:

Originally posted by JIm Yackley:
What does the timing/ headspace have to do with an ammo malfunction in the bore? I do not think you have ever seen a M-2 fired, you sure do not understand the process of setting up the gun. You sound like an armchair commando to me. Put up or shut up.

Jim,
I think you missunderstood me. I did not mean to say the timing was actually off, just the sound was not right. When they go off in the bore you definately get a different sound. Maybe it is a lack of supersonic crack. Or when they go off just outside the bore you get two pops. Either way it just dose not sound right.

I am more of a tailgate commando. I actually get off my ass to drive to the range and commando my gear all the way from my tailgate to my sooting position

Try some RemClean or some J&B Bore Paste.

Both are a mild abrasive. They work for carbon or jacket fouling. They should work for your "crud".

If the round is loaded with thermite then he could have some real bore damage.