I have a question for you gunnies. I don't need "I think so" Or "I guess". I need gunnies that "Know" the answer. I have all the I thinks I need. The question is, can A BMG 50 be pushed through a 5/1000th smaller bore? What is the bore of a 50? Can it be .495 MAX?

The point is, In the peoples republic of Californication, 50 cal is outlawed. So Can we make a .495 bore barrel and NOT need to reload all the amo?

quote:

Originally posted by ronjulian:
I have a question for you gunnies. I don't need "I think so" Or "I guess". I need gunnies that "Know" the answer. I have all the I thinks I need. The question is, can A BMG 50 be pushed through a 5/1000th smaller bore? What is the bore of a 50? Can it be .495 MAX?

The point is, In the peoples republic of Californication, 50 cal is outlawed. So Can we make a .495 bore barrel and NOT need to reload all the amo?

For the .511 thru a .495 bore. YES Higher pressure but Yes.

BUT, you need to read the law. If you shoot a .50 BMG through ANY gun you are in violation. it's the round, not the gun. Now a 1/4" shorter round with a 458 bore would be the coolest and I spoke with JD Jones at SKS about it. $10,000 to get up and running was his estimate. Steyr has a .460 made just to sell in CA. That's the way I'd go. look up HS-50 or watch the videos in this forum.

I haven't read the CA law, but can you still shoot 50's, just not the BMG? If so, get a 500 A-square built with a long throat to chamber the 50 bmg pills, and use a 1-10 twist barrel.

It's a beauty of a plan, you have a what looks like for all intents and purposes your generic elephant gun, but you get 3/4 the velocity of the bmg and burn 1/2 the powder to do so, all in a 10-11 pound rifle.

The better solution is to move out of California. I lived there long enough to realize that life is too short to spend in a place such as that.

After shooting the Steyr, I'm certain of 1 thing! I would NOT want to shoot 3/4 of a BMG through a gun that weighed 1/3 of the weight and was not compensated as well as the BMG! ouch! (see avatar)

The is already a California legal .50 cal round with similar performance to the .50 BMG. The .510 DTC European is already being chambered in the Windrunner, at EDM Arms Please scroll down the linked page to see. The California law bans rifles that fire the .50 BMG round. The law defines a .50 BMG cartridge by the cartridge dimensions, i.e case head diameter, case length, O.A.L, ect. Even though the .510 DTC brass is fireformed .50 BMG brass, the entire cartridge is shorter, the brass is shorter, the neck is shorter, the datum line is different, and the upper case part of the case is fatter. The .50 BMG will not chamber in a .510 DTC rifle and the .510 DTC will not chamber in a .50 BMG rifle. Eureka! California legal .50.

go with the 50dtc or spotter round... anything else would be dumb.

if you want to stay in 0.50 cal , 510 DTC is an easy way because that just NO 50 BMG chambering but you stay in 50 BMG loading table / performance ( a bit more efficient cartridge ) , that a regular caliber with available reloading dies , and soon formed cases with the right headstamp available for US market , most 50 cal maker can and agree to chamber it ( EDM , macBross, LAR , UL , Serbu ...) so get a NO 50 BMG in CA is possible , your receiver will be engraved as NO50BMG or 510 DTC to stay in the rule of the "local" BATF or State law .

as other solution , for the falls this year a new caliber will be show on US market to be equal in performance of the best 50 , this caliber is in process to produce a very shootable cartridge in NO 50 cal class but with the 2000 yards balistic of the 50 BMG load with AMAX , this caliber is develop for several US 50 cal rifle company and with their help

as sizing the AMAX you just will destroy accuracy of the bullet , only serious way to produce custom bullet efficient and accurate is lathe turning on a modern CNC lathe , some maker in the US as MacMurdo can run other caliber .

good shooting

DAN TEC

Mr DanTec or should I say Mr Eric Danis, I am pleased to meet you here.

I wanted to thank you personaly for what happened in France related to the .308 ESP Mark 2 ammunition and especially the prohibition of this cartridge after you sent a letter to the General Controller of the French Ministry of Defense to indicate that this round may chamber in a 7.62 Nato weapon and inquire wether it should not be considered war material cartridge hence prohibiting its free use by sport shoothers despite the fact that rifles chambered for .308 ESP Mark 2 could not chamber regular military rounds 7.62x51 mm or .308 Win both classified 1st category in France.

As a swiss citizen living most of the year in Paris, I had ordered a few rifles in modified .308 aka 308 ESP Mark2 in order to detain them legally without administrative red tape and they have been reclassified in 1st category hence prohibited due to the letter you wrote to the DGA to suppress a potential challenger and a competitor.

I find this especially daring from someone who has assembled firearms for a few years without having declared this activity to the administrative authorities and without having the necessary manufacturing license from the DGA/ MoD when it was about some of the rifles you sold.

I thank you for the financial loss and legal problems encountered due to your action, I could not do it before today since you asked the webmasters of the main long range shooting site, Tir Mailly, to suppress your account.

very happy to read another anonymous " vomit " on a board and if I can read your wonderfull and interesting anonymous post

you are a swiss citizen isn it ??? so why you need french autorisation to purchase a real 308 Win ( clasified as war material in France ) because that free to won for a swiss citizen

If you have a problem with the 308 MKII why dont go to your dealer to request him why he have sale a new caliber on the french market

WITHOUT

any official check and any official question to the DGA and the ETBS who area the ONLY official way to know if something is legal or legal
SO you is guilty

you to have purchase rifle without checking the REAL classification

OR

me to have to ask the question IF the 308MKII is legal in France just becuase some "rattle snake " run the rumor that BECAUSE I have built some 308 Short headspace I have built ilelgal gun and by the way to check what caliber is really legal in France as hunting caliber and NO MILITARY CALIBER

AS ammunition problem

you have probably FORGET to check IF the 308 ESPMK II is CIP register because sale loaded in France is FORDIDEN without any CIP registration so same way

GO to meet your dealer and get an explain to him WHY he have sale or he alreday sale ilelgal ammo on french market

if you enjoy Mailly forum , dont stop to enjoy it and stay on it .

BUT

dont mix liars , couards without name on forum , illegal gun dealers and corrupted peolples with true shooters and gunsmiths and it s seem that your main interest on the accurate forum seem to be the political forum ( strange for a real shooter ? ) can please stay on it

DAN TEC

quote:

you are a swiss citizen isn it ??? so why you need french autorisation to purchase a real 308 Win ( clasified as war material in France ) because that free to won for a swiss citizen

Unlike good french wines, you don't improve when aging:

quote:

As a swiss citizen living most of the year in Paris, I had ordered a few rifles in modified .308 aka 308 ESP Mark2 in order to detain them legally without administrative red tape

As I posted, I don't want to detain classified 1st category weapons in France and I buy only 5th category that I let in my french residence.

Of course, I let my 'swiss' weapons in Switzerland, it's easier when flying without them.

It is funny to accuse others to be anonymous when posting as Dan Tec and for the illegal manufacturing of firearms, may I recall you the .308 that you assembled without having the necessary paperwork completed sold to B. through a gun dealer without even being proofed at saint Etienne.

May I recall you the way you insulted many people anonymously before to be caught red hands because of your IP and your account being suppressed after you insulted someone on Mailly who you did not know belongs to the technical management of the French National Police, Armament Department, and in charge of test and evaluation of the firearms.

You hurried to make the 5th and 7th category declaration at your local prefect office when the investigation started.

I have no prejudice against people who make parts for automobile industry as long as they don't pretend to be something else.

My dealer has taken the problem frankly and honestly and has rebarreled all of my purchased firearms, offered me the new reloading dies and brass, he stood up as a man and did what he had to do when your action near the MoD caused the loss of another shooters' freedom.

Funny how you spit on the members of Mailly today after having made so much money with them every week en before, I hope this money was well declared to the fiscal administration at least..

You represent exactly the type of French some of the resident French haters would like to see more often since it would back their opinion that French are spineless cowards, dirty narrow minded persons.

If you like, go to Mailly on any shooting day you want and we'll have a very interesting discussion, some people would like to hear of you.

I don't have any doubt that you like to work with illegal gun dealers and people you like to corrupt so they can't open their mouth any more.

On topic please... or there's a political forum that's commonly used for idle banter and personal attacks. Comments like "We shouldn't meet at a range" are inappropriate in ANY forum.

Collins

I agree, Sir!

Please excuse my hot temper due to my latin roots.

quote:

Please excuse my hot temper due to my latin roots.

Ey Caramba!

Quake hits west coast, shit hits east coast, Eh?

FEEEWWW! T'was hot here!

Ed! Tell us frankly, you're not really a Frog?
You took the heat from the neomorons and stood up to defend France but the other Frog is a real one, no spine, no balls, he disappeared duringt the entire French Bashing Campaign!

RE: .270Win to 6.5x64 Brenneke (in Wildcats And Their Development) by dan tec
dont mix head and base head is in 0.473 ( OK on 308 bolt ) base ( dims at 0.2 from bolt face is ......
Accuratereloading.com > The Accurate Reloading Forums > THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS > Wildcats And Their Development
16 June 200521:42

RE: Deburring Nickel Cases (in Reloading) by dan tec
you can do that with a home made tool made with center drill in carbide ( not cheap ) fit in a groun......
Accuratereloading.com > The Accurate Reloading Forums > THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS > Reloading
06 October 2003 03:46

that an interesting point of view but perhaps I have other to do to spend time on politic forum

good shooting

DAN TEC

Hey Froggie!
You disappeared from the entire Accurate Reloading site, not only the PF.You must be one of those cheese eating surrender monkeys!
I second DD, Eddie can't be a real Frog, he has too much balls and brain!

Oh vraiment ?

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:
Quake hits west coast, shit hits east coast, Eh?

Site looks like fun, but I don't red greek!

quote:

Originally posted by ronjulian:

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:
Quake hits west coast, shit hits east coast, Eh?

Site looks like fun, but I don't red greek!

Red greek?

quote:

Originally posted by Arriba:

quote:

Originally posted by ronjulian:

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:
Quake hits west coast, shit hits east coast, Eh?

Site looks like fun, but I don't red greek!

Red greek?

Thats reAd greek.

Remember, the 50 BMG is actually a 510 caliber. Reducing the bullets from .510 to .495 is a big step. I would not want to even consider shooting a .510 projectile through a .495 bore with more than 200 grains of powder. Sounds like a recipe for trouble. The 50 DTC is the best bet in my opinion.

Ranb

You do realize, that simply having a tight-necked chamber in .50BMG that won't allow for the chambering of a std military round is satisfactory in CA for not requiring registration.PERIOD! The law describes the .50BMG case very explicitly. I discussed this with the DOJ there and they confirmed this to be true. The std .50BMG accuracy reamer from JGS may be OK as military rounds will not chamber in my gun,however, a sloppy chamber might be a problem though. To be on the safe side, I am going to design a new reamer with a tighter neck and just neck turn my brass a little more. With the availability of .50BMG brass and other components I see no reason for new brass and or smaller diameter bullets. If you really wanted to build a benchrest .50, then I'd go for a bigger case, with more powder capacity and thus higher velocities rather than a smaller case. This is acceptable in unlimited guns now! With that said, my .50/.600OK shoots sub.5 MOA at 1000 yrds. However, it doesn't have the velocity of a .50BMG and is subject to more wind drift with the same 800gr bullets. The trade off is recoil ( not much of an issue in my 100lb unlimited gun, vs wind drift. The ideal .50 benchrest cartridge IMHO is a 20mm case necked down to a .510 bore.-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by ronjulian:

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:
Quake hits west coast, shit hits east coast, Eh?

Site looks like fun, but I don't red greek!

Greek? put down the crack pipe, my site is in French/English/German.

Rob- Here is the cartridge like you mentioned,
that my gunsmith friend, Bob Snapp built
years ago for a company testing armor.
In picture, first is 50 cal, then the
20 mm necked to 50 cal next to original
20 mm in picture.Neck is little short.
But they got around 5000 fps.
The best case for necking to 50 cal if your
interested in getting 50 cal bullets out at
4000 plus fps would be Hispano-Suiza 20 mm
cases. Diameter is not so big, but cases are longer, so wouldn't have to go a huge
amount bigger on barrel in chamber area, compared to using 20mm Vulcan cases.
I am going to make a wildcat if I
ever get the time down the road,
using HS brass, a belted 900HE....Ed.

Quake hits west coast, shit hits east coast, Eh? [/QUOTE]
Site looks like fun, but I don't red greek![/QUOTE]

Greek? put down the crack pipe, my site is in French/English/German.[/QUOTE]
Did not see any English, It all looks Greek to me!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by hubel458:
Rob- Here is the cartridge like you mentioned,
that my gunsmith friend, Bob Snapp built
years ago for a company testing armor.
In picture, first is 50 cal,

Sorry, where is the Pic?

ronjulian--When I bring my post up the
picture is there.Right below the message.Ed

So would a 50BMG Ackley Improved be exempt?

An improved chamber would not be acceptable in California. Since improved chambers accept the original cartridge, any rifle so chambered would meet the ban criteria. If your improved chamber was too short to close the bolt on a 50 BMG round, then it would not really be an improved chamber.

Ranb

So! how about the new "50 BMG Collins Un-improved" You'd tighten up the headspace 0.050" grind your dies 0.050" and you'd be off to the races! No factory / standard BMG would fit but you'd use all the same components and reloading tools and the same gun. I think It's going to be a big hit! I'll start spending my money now.

quote:

Originally posted by ranb40:
An improved chamber would not be acceptable in California. Since improved chambers accept the original cartridge, any rifle so chambered would meet the ban criteria. If your improved chamber was too short to close the bolt on a 50 BMG round, then it would not really be an improved chamber.

Ranb