I agree, it's very frustrating. I just keep looking forward to the day that someone recognizes the need. It seems like long range handgunning is growing in popularity, so who knows? I use the 12x Burris on mine because it was the highest power EER scope I could find. I'm just not going to try a rifle scope on my .308 pistol, just not gonna do that! I'm afraid I'll soon get to the point that my gun will be more accurate than I can shoot with that scope.
Posts: 207 | Location: Sacramento, CA, USA | Registered: 15 February 2002
quote:Originally posted by MSSmagnum: BTW Sean, before you blast me i want a true extended eye relief scope!!
Mike,
LOL you optical Heretic
Actually, the Leupold 6.5-20 and 8-25 both have great eye relief for high power target scopes, and would make excellent alternatives to handgun scopes which do not exist beyond 12x. On a .223, this is a very efficient sollution.
I do not know if this still exists anywhere, but Al Goerg used to use an optical eye relief extender on rifle scopes back in the days when LER scopes did not exist. Basically, they replaced the ocular piece of the scope, and cut the magnification of the rifle scope in half while doubling the eye relief. So by using one on the Leupolds, you are still right back where we are, with nothing higher than an 12X magnification, unless you were to modify something like a 12-42x Nightforce target scope, and then you are talking a total investment of several thousand dollars for a 20x handgun LER scope, which to my thinking, while quite novel, is not very viable or practical
SavageShooter,
I have often wondered about a 308 XP or Encore 15" using a riflescope, with a JP Enterprises recoil eliminator muzzle brake. I think this is about the only viable way to mount such a scope on a higher recoiling caliber and not suffer an "idiot cut" from the scope, yet the blast and noise from the JP brake would be very unpleasant.
Posts: 830 | Location: Virginia, USA | Registered: 08 March 2002
Though the lesser the eye relief, the more accurate it will be. The farther away your eye, the more critical eye alignment is. A perfect center eye alignment is the hardest thing next to a consistant grip, that a scoped handgunner faces. That's what makes a pistol scope harder to shoot accurateely with. That's why I've made my past remarks about shoting rifle scopes against pistol scopes in the postal matches. It has nothing to do with magnification, but with alignment. I think an average shooter with a 4x rifles scope can easly outshoot another shooter (of the same skill level and equipment) with a 7x pistol scope. Based on the center eye alignment alone.... it's critical , and hard to do with a long eye relief scope, and simple (almost hard to do wrong) with a rifle scope.
With a true long eye relief scope of high magnificatiion, you'd rings and a mount with lots of adjustment, cause that window of propper eye relief/sight picture will be so small you'd have to have everything perfect. (If ya got long arms, or don't shoot off a bench forget about it.....)
Posts: 723 | Location: Ny | Registered: 17 March 2002
quote:Originally posted by Sean VHA #60013: I have often wondered about a 308 XP or Encore 15" using a riflescope, with a JP Enterprises recoil eliminator muzzle brake. I think this is about the only viable way to mount such a scope on a higher recoiling caliber and not suffer an "idiot cut" from the scope, yet the blast and noise from the JP brake would be very unpleasant.
Sean - From my sources (those real men in IHMSA who stand up and shoot centerfire rounds), I understand that the JP Enterprises brake isn't as effective as a Holland type break or even the type that Ken Light sells on his website (www.kenlightmfg.com). Personally I don't have any first hand experience with any type of break so I'm just going by the word of other experienced shooters. I do, however, have a beautiful VV 7 TCU barrel with their brake (I believe it is a Holland type) that I've been dying to shoot with a 24x Leupold mounted on it.
Posts: 391 | Location: Kansas | Registered: 12 March 2002
I too wish someone would make a higher power pistol scope. I'd like a 15X or 16X with about 8" of eye relief. I use Burris 10's, but want more. BTW, have any of you guys ever used the 7X AO Simmons? I wonder why they quit making them? They were fine scopes, in my opinion. I don't personally like a rifle scope on a handgun. Shooting position is too contorted. Lefty
The Burris I'm using has parallax adjustment. Doesn't that cure the eye alignment problem? I have mine adjusted so I can move my eye alignment around quite a bit without the crosshairs moving off target, but never tried shots that way. Think I'll have to experiment to make sure I'm not fooling myself.
Posts: 207 | Location: Sacramento, CA, USA | Registered: 15 February 2002
Savageshooter - I believe that you are correct. As long as the image (target) is focused on the same plane as the crosshairs, then eye alignment isn't really an issue. I think this is a big issue as precision pistol shooting is pushed to longer and longer ranges. This is where Burris has things right and Leupold has dropped the ball.
Posts: 391 | Location: Kansas | Registered: 12 March 2002
I think you guys are forgetting that we really are an elite few that shoot pistol's out to the ranges that we do. For Burris and Leupold to design and build a scope with EER in the 10+ power range would not be cost effective for them or us. I think customer demand will have to be much greater for them to listen. It's just about money...not because they love us. I too wish they would make some high x scopes that I could use on the bigger handguns, but I guess I'll have to wait. Maybe one day!! mvm
My new project is going to require some serious "x's" so today i ordered a matte Burris 3-12AO. I should have it by Wednesday of next week. Lookin forward to seeing it!! I hope it is everything that i have read about them!!
Posts: 1574 | Location: Western Pennsylvania | Registered: 12 September 2002
quote:Originally posted by pshooter: MSSMAGNUM, I have had a Burris 3-9 for several years now and it works just fine. I would imagine your 3-12 will be great. Congrats. mvm
Thanks!! Lookin forward to openin that box!!
Posts: 1574 | Location: Western Pennsylvania | Registered: 12 September 2002
MSSmagnum, I have used both the Burris 3x9x32mm AO Handgun Scope and the Burris 3x12x32mm AO Handgun Scope, and IMHO the 3x12x Burris is a little more user friendly than is the 3x9x32mm Burris. However both are great scopes. I have never used a 10x Burris Handgun Scope so can not comment on it.
Mike, I really think you will like the 3-12 Burris. I guess you could say I like them-I have 4 of them . I had one on my 284 Win. at the Bower clinic this past May in Alliance, NE and I was very pleased. Deadeyedick also used my XP. He may comment on the scope too if he reads this. xphunter
Posts: 828 | Location: Wyoming | Registered: 11 July 2000
quote:Originally posted by B_Koes: Where is the best (read cheapest) place to get a Burris 3-12x pistol scope?
Hi Bret! Midway had the Burris 3-12 AO Matte for $277. Rich Jake and me ordered the last 2 on saturday. I just went and checked, the price is back up to $308.
I guess we lucky on that one RJ!!
Posts: 1574 | Location: Western Pennsylvania | Registered: 12 September 2002