I have never owned a 6.5 JDJ and I know that many of you do. If you have 14 inch 6.5 JDJ in a TC and a 14 inch 260 Remington barrel in an Encore or other action (XP-100, MOA, Striker, etc...) of similar strength which one comes out on top? Or is it a tie?
Another post further down mentioned Mike's 6.5 Bellm, so I thought I would add it in to the topic. Where do they all fit in?
I guess I'm more curious than anything else. Thanks
xphunter

[ 08-03-2002, 02:16: Message edited by: xp100hunter ]

I'd expect the .260 to come out on top, you have a larger case ~30 gr powder vs ~40 gr powder, and the .260 opperates at higher pressure.

Enrie
I beleive the 260 in Striker is the most accurate of all the break - one firearms I own. Talking factory to factory.
The 250 Sav Imp is next in line.
Now all I need are some new Ball / Plex scopes.
Anyone interested ,let me know. The more I order the better the price.

XP, I agree w/ Paul. If one's looking at pure ballistics, the 260 Rem is going to beat the 6.5 JDJ everytime (at max loads for each), probably by 200-300 fps. In like fashion, the 7-08 will always better the 7-30 Waters by a similar margin. Of course, the 308 based rounds will produce more velocity at the expense of more powder, more muzzle blast, and more muzzle flash. Plus, you'll have to use an Encore instead of a Contender (at least in T/C's) to handle the 308 based rounds, meaning the gun will also have to be heavier. Both the 6.5 JDJ and 7-30 Waters are FINE hunting rounds, but as far as pure horsepower, they can't compete w/ the 308 based rounds. That having been said, I love my 6.5 and have harvested a large number of game w/ it; I have a 308 Striker that I've yet to kill anything w/..... Just depends on your wants/needs. Gary T.

I appreciate the responses. It was my strong guess that the 260 would outperform the 6.5JDJ. The advantage of the Contender is it's light weight in the field in comparison to the Encore and most other specialty handguns suitable for the higher pressure cartridges. I know have a 260 Remington in a M.O.A. Maximum. It will be my daughter's deer and antelope handgun and also a spare hunting handgun if needed for a beginner.
xphunter

The comparison given by Gary T is right on the money. I've had both (though mine was actually stamped 6.5x.308 -- made up before Remington gave the caliber a home). Yes, the .260 will outdo the JDJ by close to 300 fps with 120 grain bullets (2400 fps to nearly 2700 fps), but the 6.5JDJ will shoot flat enough and with enough power to harvest any deer out to as far as we should be shooting. The additional fps (not to mention additional weight, noise, powder & recoil!) of the .260 really isn't needed if deer is the primary species you plan to hunt.

XP, One other thing I forgot to mention. When the 260 Rem first came out, I saw an article where the factory loads were chronographed in a 14" Encore barrel. As I recall, seems like the velocity was only about 50-100 fps faster than usual 6.5 JDJ velocity. Haven't seen 260 factory loads chronographed in a short barrel ever since. Nevertheless, it's possible the extra 300 fps gained by the 260 Rem may only obtained by handloading. Has anyone seen any 260 Rem factory loads chrono'd from a handgun barrel, lately? Gary T.

Then of course we have the 6.5 Bellm.

Headstamp
Where does the 6.5 Bellm fit with the other two cases say in a 14 inch TC barrel?
xphunter

The Bellm adds around 100 fps to the JDJ when 120 grain bullets are compared. I am not running mine full throttle, yet I am getting 2455 fps with the 120 grain Speer (barrel is a 14" Bullberry that began life as a 6.5 TCU). Several powders get the Bellm round to that mark and above, while my 6.5 JDJ wouldn't come close to 2400 fps with anything bu Re-15.

The original post -- if memory serves -- didn't mention the Bellm, and that's why I didn't get into comparisons in my first post. (I think xp100hunter has been editing...<grin>

Some of the early .260 Rem ammo from Remington was horrible. The 140 grain load only went around 2550 fps from a 26" barrel. The Speer Nitrex ammo, in my rifle, went around 2742 fps -- right at specs claimed from a 24" barrel. Those are the only two I tried as I do not use any centerfire factory ammo for anything other than comparison testing -- never for hunting applications. I have not tried any of the newer .260 loadings but have heard reports that the Rem ammo is now much closer to the advertised velocity.

In my previous post, the velocities mentioned for the .260 were indeed from handloads.

XP, I just bought a new 700 take off 260 barrel for my switch barrel XP, I havent had a chance to headspace it yet. I will shoot it first in its original length, but will then cut it down to somewhere between 14 and 18. I will keep in touch need to work the 243,7-08 and 308 as well.the small blt fac cal. are working real well

In response to factory .260 loads....We averaged 2500 fps with the Rem 120 grain NBT out of a 14" stainless SSK, 1 in 9" Encore ~ 10' from the muzzle. Nice setup with a 2X6 Bushnell 3200. Rig belongs to my nephew. We plan to try the Rem 125 NParts. prior to starting handloading for it.
Cant shoot it as much as I would like as he keeps it at his house
Dave

Chroned 2750 fps from 15", 100XPR in 260 Rem. using 120gr Barnes X and Varget. Close to it with 125gr Partitions.

Wow! 250 FPS difference between factory and handloads. Okay, 200 FPS since the handloaded handgun was 15 inch barrel and the factory barrel was 14 inches. Bobby said his 260 with 120 grain bullets would almost attain 2,700 FPS (14-15 inch barrel?) I wonder if this is the norm with all factory ammo in the 260 Remington when compared to safe handloads?
Let me see if I have this right:
The 6.5 Bellm will run around 2,450-2,500 FPS in a 14 inch tube and the 6.5 JDJ runs around 2,350 FPS with 120 grain bullets.
Is that a good/fair comparison?
I understand there will be some differences in velocity due to a number of variables for barrels of the same length and chambering even though the ammo is the same.
Even though His case design hasn't been mentioned, I'm assuming the 6.5 Super Bower will run at the same velocities as the 6.5 Bellm? I believe Don will run his cases harder (higher pressure), so his velocities will be higher be my guess. But isn't there a close similarity between the two in case capacity?
I appreciate all the informations shared to date. Since the XP's are my passion (when it comes to shooting anyway) I am ignorant when talking about different wildcat cartridges in the TC and what they are capable of.
One of these days I am going to again get a TC and have Mike either build or rechamber a barrel that he thinks would be most suited for long range shooting and hunting (deer and antelope sized game). I'm curious as to what he will suggest.
xphunter

xp100hunter-
My 6.5x.308 XP had a 14" barrel.

If you'll shoot factory 120 grain ammo in the .260, it appears you'll only be in the same league as a Contender with the 6.5x50R-Bellm.

You'll have more recoil & more spent powder for no additional ballistic gain. Of course, if you will reload for it, that's another ballgame altogether.

My 14" barrel would do 2693 fps with 46 grains H4350 under the Nosler 120 grain BT.

But the Bellm, running on only 30-33 grains of propellant (depending on the powder) will do up to 2500 fps with that same bullet. Out to the ranges handgun hunters shoot, the trajectory won't be significantly different, and 2350-2400 with that particular bullet is all you need for deer out to 200-225 yards.

Just my two-cents worth...

XP.... lots of good info here, well stated and coming from experienced intelligent shooters it is worth more than if I alone had presented it.

Your personal decision must also factor in whether you are sticking with your favorite, the XP, or if you are opting for the lighter weight of the Contender with its attendant limitations. With the Contender, the 6.5x50 R Bellm will probably remain the top choice so long as good brass is available.

I have yet to do any serious work with 6.5s on the .307 Win case, but in a handgun, I doubt it will outdo the smaller diameter 5.6x50 R case without stretching the safety envelope.

The .225 Win case compares pretty favorably with the .307 Win case when it comes to thickness and what that thickness permits by way of pressures. If the 6.5x50 R Bellm beats the 6.5 JDJ, and it does, then I doubt the much larger .307 Win case can top the smaller .225 Win case.

Conversation has focused on actual results, but no mention of dies and costs has entered the equation.

Of all, only the Bower and JDJ chambers require custom dies, which adds to the cost, but may not gain any performance or advantage for the money spent.

TC Heretic

Bobby,
This has definitely been an informative post for me. So, if you are a novice (when it comes to reloading) you are going to have to learn how to work with wildcat cartridges to be competitive with an Encore in 260 Rem. with factory ammo. That may not be an advantage to the beginner, but it is definitely an advantage to the one who wants to carry a lighter field gun and still have good performance.
I will shoot farther on deer sized game beyond 250 yards if the cartridge I am using is capable of that performance and the shooting conditions are right.
Mike,
I still am not used to this "TC Heretic" phrase. I know it is in humor and sarcasm. After spending some time with you at Alliance I would rather refer to you as "Mike the TC Professional," since that is what you truly are. You are in good company with other people who have been called the other name for what it's worth.
Yes, I am talking about a project for a Contender realizing both it's limitations and advantages.
Is the 6.5x50 R Bellm the standard case necked up or the standard case necked up and improved?
If it is not the improved version, how much would the improved version give ?
I also like the idea of not having to go to an expensive die set.
Could you give me your opinion of why you choose the 6.5 over the 6mm and 25 calibers? Just curious. It is not that I disagree with you--I just want to know why you choose the 6.5 diameter. I like the 6.5's, I have one (14' 260 Rem in a M.O.A. Maximum) and another on the way (6.5-284 XP-100).
In your opinion what would be the effective range for deer/antelope of the 6.5x50 R Bellm in a 15 inch Contender barrel (say 2,550 FPS) with a 120 BT as long as the shooter is doing his part?
xphunter

[ 08-07-2002, 23:52: Message edited by: xp100hunter ]

I haven't owned a 6.5X50R, yet but have seen one, and know another shooting buddy who has one. The case is the 5.6X50R necked up, and I'm pretty sure the shoulder is moved forward. It is improved, and then some, the neck is very short. In a 14" contender, it is the fastest 6.5mm, pushing 120's 2500 fps, which is an honest 100 fps faster then any of the other 6.5's. It also uses std 6.5 TCU dies, and one can simply get a used 6.5 TCY and have it re-chambered.

I used to own a 6.5 GR, which is essentially the 7 Intl Rimmed necked down, or a 30/30 necked down w/ 38 deg shoulder. It would also push 120's to 2400 fps, but I had short brass life, about 3 loads, and then case head seperation. I was also concerned about the back thrust on my frame.

Personally, I think the 6.5X50R is the best of the hot 6.5's in a contender. I don't see an advantage to the larger dia cases, ie 225 win, 307 or 444 in this bore size. I also don't like the fact you can wreck frames with the larger dia cases. Not that one couldn't do damage with the smaller dia cases, but there is more lee way in how hot you can go with them.