This is an offshoot of some of the other threads. What has your experience been with T/C factory barrels? As I recall, I've had the following factory T/C tubes, all purchased used.

10" ss 22 rf match. It would shoot 1/2" groups at 50 yds with favored loads, I don't recall any ammo that went over 1" at 50. Personally, I think that is acceptable accuracy.

16" ss 223 rem. I didn't do much load work with this barrel, but it would put 5 rds of Malaysian milsurp into 1 1/4 - 1 1/2" at 100 yds, perfectly acceptable by me.

10" blue 357 mag. I finally did find one load of AA 1680 that would print my a little over 1" at 50 yds, but it produced mediocre velocity w/ 200 gr cast. By and large, I was hardpressed to get the barrel to shoot under 1" at 25 yds. My expectation would be 2" or under at 100 yds, and this thing really wouldn't do it at 50 yds. As an asside my ruger 480 revolver regularly prints 1" at 50 yds, so if a straight cased revolver can shoot that good, a single shot pistol should shoot at least as well, no? With the 357 mag I tried 150, 158, 180 and 200 gr cast with red dot, unique, 2400, H110 and AA 1680, I should have found a few accurate combos one would think. I tried the 200 gr seated to both canalures, the lube groove, and even with just the gas check in the case, and I never hit the lands!

10" blue 357 Herret. This one would group 2-3" at 100 yds w/ 200 gr cast. I tried 2400, H110, AA 1680 and RL 7. The current owner claims it shoots 3 into 1" using discontinued W 680.

I also had one re-chamber, a 6.5 Grassl rimmed, which started life as a 6.5 TCU. I tried RL 15, Varget, VV N550 and H 4350. All powders were capable of putting 3 120 gr balistic tips into 1" or under @ 100 yds. The H4350 sweetspot would put them into 1/2".

I had a 10" ss 218 mashburn bee custom barrel made, not counting my new 357 max, this is the only barrel I've bought new. I tried 2400, H110, and RL 7 w/ 40, 45, 50, 52 and 55 gr bullets. I think only 1 or two loads would group under 1" at 100 for 3 shots, most were 1 1/2" to 2". I expected this barrel to easily shoot moa, and preferred loads should have been in the 1/2" range.

Personally I think factory tubes, especially used ones to be a decent product for the money. Of the 4 I had, the only one I'd say that had unsatisfactory accuracy was the 357 mag. I also sold it for what I had into it, as I have with all the other factory tubes that have been on and off my frame.

My Luck hasn't been as good as yours.

I had a T/C 300 Whisper that just didn't shoot as well asI would have liked it to, that got sold. It was replaced with an SSK 300 Whisper a lot better. Not perfect but better.

I have a 14" 223 Rem Barrel that Shoots well enough for me. I am satisfied with it. It does 1" at 100 & 1 5/8" at 200.

My most recent purchase of 7mm TCU Carbine barrel from the custom shop has been nothing but trouble from the start. I'm currently talking to Customer service about that.

I guess I'm just unlucky, it makes two out of three with problems. Or maybe I expect too much?

Rich Jake

Paul, I also have had a couple of factory barrels that shot well, and have seen plenty otherwise. But A new blued TC custom shop barrel goes for $220. And are made the same as a production barrel. A Van Horn or Virgin Valley barrel are going for just a few dollars more and they both use stress relieved barrels and will cut your chamber as per your request. TCs custom shop won't do this. Why take a chance on a factory when you can get a real custom for a few bucks more?
Although Mr. Bellm cuts the sweetest chamber, I didn't inclued him, for he isn't making barrels per buyers request. But with out a doubt, his work is the best I own.

[ 09-10-2002, 01:49: Message edited by: Jules ]

Jules,

As I mentioned, used T/C barrels, and for me, I'll pay $125-150 for them, are a decent deal. I agree, new T/C barrels are a poor choice, and for a few more $'s, the custom route makes sense.

This is a copy of my article on factory barrels from my website, which outlines my experiences with Factory barrels:

Thoughts on Factory Vs Custom Barrels:

There has been much debate and much bandwidth spent on arguing this question, and I am certain that I'll not solve the problem in this one article. What I hope to do is present my personal experiences and thoughts in such a manner that you may compare them to what has been said by others, and make an educated and informed decision.

Years ago, I had a T/C Contender with a Harris BR bipod, Herrett style fingergroove grip, matching factory forend, Super 14" 223 barrel that would shoot into 1/8" at 100yards all day long with factory Hornady 40grn V-Max ammo. I used a Burris 10x target scope held by Leupold cross-slot rings on a Weaver 92a base, and I must say this configuration worked well with the older vintage Burris 10x target scope I was using, though this was admittedly a finicky scope when it came to eye relief.

Others complain heavily about the Burris 10X IER scopes due to their very finicky eye relief, but I firmly believe that this causes a necessary precision in eye placement which contributes greatly to shooting well, due to the need for absolute exact head placement for every shot with this scope.

Back to the performance of factory barrels: While the setup shot the Hornady 40 grn V-Max well, anything 55grains or over shot horribly, and bullets weighing 62 grns and above would keyhole. I now believe this is due to T/C using a 1-12 twist rate, which simply in my experience with the .223 doesn't stabilize the heavier bullets well. Most AR15 makers, such as Bushmaster, have gone to a standard 1-9 twist for the .223 in their standard guns, and Bushmaster is even putting a 1-7 twist in their DCM match target model.

Also, from what I understand my Super 14" 223 was an exception to the rule so far as Factory T/C 223's are concerned, as many complain of terrible performance no matter what weight and load used, and I can well believe it after looking at & shooting some other factory barrels in this caliber: in my experience they are typically poor shooters.

Case in point: Early in 2001 I had a back and forth volley of barrel returns with T/C over a NEW 10" 44mag barrel that had tooling defects in the muzzle: DEEP swirl marks from the tooling.

After **4** sent and returned barrels (and *each* barrel replacement from T/C had more GROSS defects, like front site screw holes *bottomed out & bulged into the bore* or tool marks in the bore at the muzzle, or a visibly wavy bore that looked like every other inch of barrel was interchangeably thinner and then thicker etc) and after a very long letter to Mike Wright at T/C explaining how this was unsatisfactory and how expensive the shipping was getting to be (over $60.00 extra out of my pocket at that point) T/C finally sent me a decent 44mag barrel, and also a check for all the shipping.

I was very unhappy about the 4 months it took to straighten out, but they did finally take care of me, even covering the shipping (which was due to their mishandling of those returns) so the end result does speak to their credit as to their taking care of the customer financially, but speaks terribly of the quality control of their product.

I had a similar experience with a 10" Encore barrel in 50AE: front site screw holes *bottomed out & bulged into the bore* or tool marks in the bore at the muzzle, or a visibly wavy bore that looked like every other inch of barrel was interchangeably thinner and then thicker etc. Again, T/C finally took care of the problem (this time w/o reimbursing the s&h) yet my contension is that these problems, in MY experience, are the norm rather than the exception, and this simply SHOULD NOT BE!

IMHO Basically as Gunsmith and barrel craftsman Mike Bellm and others have stated in many places, purchasing a factory T/C barrel is like playing "barrel roulette": one never knows what they might get when they cut tape, open that long white red lettered box & shine a bore-light down the end!

For what it's worth, out of all the other many Contender barrels I have personally handled or owned, I have NEVER had a problem with the 22lr or 22lr Match in any length, or with the 7mmTCU, 30Herrett, or the 45/70.

44mag, 30-30, 357mag, 35Rem, & 45/.410 have been the worst T/C Factory Contender barrels in my experience. Other's testimony may vary somewhat from mine, and be equally correct for their differing personal experiences, but that is the view from here.

SO my recommendation? Based upon the above experiences and also what I have been able to learn of factory barrel machining and chambering V/S how custom gunsmith's do barrel machining and chambering, I now either have factory barrels rechambered to a longer case which will eat up the original chamber and throat, and replace such with a chamber and throat that are "on center and axis" with the bore of the barrel, or I purchase barrels from the various custom shops around the country, and recommend you consider doing the same.

[ 09-10-2002, 02:37: Message edited by: Sean HHI #7364 ]

I have in my possession 20 T/C barrels, all of which are factory except three...SSK, BB, and VVCG. From the factory barrels, all shoot well enough for me to be proud of owning. Some took an extra round or two of load development but shoot great none the less. A few of my factory tubes will hand with my customs shot for shot. The customs seemed to find a pet load just a little quicker.

In all the barrels I have had (probably 35 or so) only three have had to go back due to accuracy issues and were promptly replaced with a test fired barrel that performed flawlessly. Of those three...all were purchased used. So they may have been abused prior to my purchasing.

Someday I may have Mike re-do a factory barrel for me...I have a no throat 30-30 that shoots good now. After a throat improvement or whateverhe does it may be a real tackdriver. But for now...I'll take my "chances" with factory tubes.