The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Single Shot Pistols IF YOU HAD TO CHOOSE?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| one of us |
O-kay, if you had to choose one .22 cal. chambering for a 10" barrel for dogs, which would it be and why? I have a 10" .22 long rifle that I want Mike to work on, any input?. Thanks, Tony | ||
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If I had to choose a 10" .22 caliber, it would definitely be the Hornet. Easy to load for, good case life and plenty of punch for p-dogs out to 200 yards. | |||
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My absolute first pic would be the 221 Fireball!! ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon} This little cartridge really performs in a 10" barrel, is extremely accurate in my old octagon barrel. Cases are readily available or can be fairly easily made from 222 or 223. It doesnt require lots of powder makin it cheap to shoot and keeping the barrel cooler for longer shootin periods before having to let the barrel cool!! Mine REALLY likes AA1680 and Sierra's 40 grain Blitzking.Would make an excellent p-dog shooter.... ![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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I have to agree with mike in that the Fireball is a top-notch performer in the 10" barrel. It would have been my number one choice, too, except that the Hornet was my very first Contender chambering way back when, and I guess I get a little sentimental about it. And while it can't match the ballistics of the .221, it still does quite well out to a couple hundred yards. | |||
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I'm sorry my (DOGS) are also known as yotes I have a 22k hornet in a 21inch. How do you think that would do in a 10? I call in heavier cover 100 yards max. Thanks Tony | |||
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If you're talking about shooting coyotes under 100 yds, then I think that either the 22 Hornet or 221 Fireball would work just fine. Given your situation, I would try a bullet of medium weight 50-55gr to make sure penetration is adequate for 'yotes. However, I read that you're wanting to rechamber a .22LR which means that you likely have a 1:16" twist in your barrel which will not stabilize these bullets. A factory T/C barrel in either .221 or .22 Hornet will be 1:12" and will easily stabilize this weight of bullets. Regardless of what anybody says, my factory 10" Hornet barrel shoots! I use a reduced load with 55gr bullets at 1750fps that will put 5 shots well inside of 1" at 100yds with the average group running around .75". I suspect that this could be bumped up to around 1900-2000fps and still be accurate enough to do the trick. As for the possibility of using lighter bullets 40-45gr bullets, I really don't know how they would perform. I defer to someone else that may have experience with such things. Good luck with whatever you decide. | |||
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For the situation you describe, the .22 Hornet will do just fine. I've taken quite a few song dogs with the Remington 45 grain soft point and a few with the Rem 45 grain HP, my longest shot being around 135 yards. The 45 grainers provide ample bullet weight for the Hornet to KO a coyote, and you'll more than likely experience only small exits. | |||
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| <Headstamp> |
Very interesting, Dalton, Doesn't the 357 Max case have the initial length to just make a Rimmed 222 out of it? Regards | ||
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| <Dalton> |
quote:The 357Max case is a little shorter than the 222Rem so you can do that, but the case you are left with has a very short neck. Shorter than a 223Rem. In fact Mike sized one and sent it to me. I found that using the 221FB die and leaving a little more neck gives me close to the same capacity as a 222Rem. The loads I am working with now are as follows. Note that these are 222Rem loads and are not compressed. Hunting 20gr. H4198 + 40gr. Sierra BlitzKing or Hornady VMax 16.5gr. IMR4227 + 40gr. Sierra BlitzKing or Hornady VMax Target 18gr. H4198 + 52gr. Sierra HPBT MatchKing or Hornady HPBT 15gr. IMR4227 + 52gr. Sierra HPBT MatchKing or Hornady HPBT | ||
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| <Headstamp> |
You're quite right Dalton, I checked dimensions after I posted and you would definately get a shortish neck. I was thinking along the lines of the 222 RC-Maxi case. I see that one winds up with a shorter neck too. It's great that Mike will work with you on something like that and cut the chamber to the proper depth. Also gives you maximum flexibility for using a few kinds of cases like the 5.6X50 Rimmed and Max and factory cases for rimless. Pressure-wise, you can also get away with using 222 Rem loads as they will just run a bit higher pressure up into the 223 arena which is no big deal for the Contender and that diameter case. Did Mike cut the neck larger in diameter for you or are you turning the case necks down? Let us know how you make out with it. Regards [ 07-22-2002, 21:20: Message edited by: Headstamp ] | ||
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| <Dalton> |
quote:Mike did cut the neck a little larger for me on this. He was and is great to work with. I will post data on this caliber in the next couple of weeks. | ||
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quote:I find that reformed .223s result in a .221 Fireball case neck that is much too big and must be either inside reamed or neck turned. For the guy wanting to do a "Tight Neck" chamber, this is a natural. Fireball chamber necks are usually about .254" diameter, so simply turn case necks to give a loaded case neck diameter as closely matched to your chamber as you choose to work with. Mike | |||
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quote:This is somewhat repetitious, but for the benefit of others in regard to rechambering the .22 LR barrels to centerfire there are several qualifying factors to keep in mind. First off, the blued barrels appear to be made of a softer steel than the centerfire barrels. If this is actually as it appears to be, it is prudent to stick with relatively low capacity cases to help prolong throat life. I have rechambered and shot extensively cases as large as .222 Rem. in blued .22 LR barrels with excellent results, but have not shot one long enough to determine how many rounds it takes to wipe out the throat. Second, stainless is probably a better choice for rechambering an LR barrel to centerfire. Third, while the Fireball is a top-notch round that was first developed for and in about a 10" barrel, in a blued barrel, I would lean toward a case a bit smaller, such as .218 Bee. Some day I want to do a .22 Carbine, aka 5.7 Johnson, aka, .22x.30 M1 Carbine. This should be excellent in the 10" barrels also. While the dies would be pricey, if you happen to be like me and have about a third of a bushel of .30 Carbine brass, the dies begin to look pretty cheap. Fourth, remember that the .22 LR barrels have about a .222-.223" groove diameter and according to the last specs I have from TC, they have a 1-15" twist. This means a rechambered barrel MAY shoot best with .223" Hornet bullets, though I have shot a lot of .224s through .222" and .223" groove diameter barrels that shot super. The longish twist also means that a flat based 50 gr. bullet may well be the heaviest bullet it will stabilize. Final comment in regard to the Hornet, which applies really to most of the rimmed cases to some extent, but more so to the thin Hornet case, is to fireform the shoulders forward first time out and headspace properly on the shoulder. This is due to 1) the variations in rim thicknesses, and 2) the necessity of cutting the rim counterbore deep enough to allow for the thickest rim that might be encountered and variations in hinge pin locations from one barrel & frame combination to the next. There are some limitations to rechambering .22 LR barrels to centerfire rounds, but there is much to be said for doing it, not the least of which is usually getting a somewhat tight groove diameter; whereas, in the factory centerfire barrels, they are often somewhat oversize, meaning their groove diameters are larger than bullet size, .224." When I get back to taking custom rechambering this winter, I would like to batch it as much as possible, so if you fellows can get together with like jobs, it will help a bunch. For example, the extractor slots in .22 LR barrels have to be milled deeper for the centerfire extractors. If I have a number barrels to perform this operation on, it goes much faster doing them all than if I have to tear things down and set up to mill just one extractor slot. Mike | |||
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Dalton, I think that was a standard .254" chamber neck we used on your case, unless I told you otherwise. Capacity of the case is a bit on the high side for a rechambered .22 LR blued barrel, so it did not come to mind at the time. However, let me state emphatically that this is one of the best designed rounds anyone has dreamed up yet. I really like it and am tempted to rechamber my K-Hornet for this round. Aren't we doing a carbine length for this cartridge also. I did not keep any cases, but if you have a digital camera, send a pic and some results to ole 1buba for the site if you want. The cartridge is quite worth pursuing. You did well. Next thing you know they'll be calling you the "Cartridge Designer from Illinois." BTW, with a broad assortment of reamers, projects like this may take a bit longer, but are no trouble to do. It is just a matter of dimensions. Mike | |||
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Dalton, Ooooooops! Forgot. Mississippi River Valley ok, but you are on the west bank, not the east. So make that the "Cartridge Designer From Missouri." Sorry about that. BTW, it was a neighbor across the river at Waterloo who prompted the .30 Bellm cartridge. Good things coming from the valley there. Keep it up. Another btw, how did the 7mm DLH work out? Mike | |||
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| <Dalton> |
Mike, I just finished fireforming the cases for both rounds two weeks ago. This past weekend I shot both the 7mm DLH and the 22(I don't think this cartridge was ever given a name). My initial results on the 7mm are outstanding. My best three shot group at a hundred yards can be covered by a dime. Just for grins I took a few shots at a 18" round metal plate we have hanging at 450yds. Once I got the Burris ballistic plex scope dialed in it was easy to ring that plate every time. The 22 is equally amazing although my initial testing was done with 40gr bullets. Those lighter bullets are what I will probably use for armadillo control but didn't give me the results I wanted for punching paper. For that task I tried the 52gr Sierra HPBT and it gave me much better results. After this weekend I will give a full report on at least one maybe both of these cartridges. I do have a carbine barrel with you to be chambered in 22(DLH?) that my wife is looking forward to shooting. I will probably also order another 7mm DLH from you in the not to distant future. If you need me to send you some of the formed 22 cases let me know because I have a bunch of them now. Again Mike I want to take the opportunity to thank you for the excellent barrel work you did for me as well as all the advice you provide both the forum and myself. | ||
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Dalton - Would love to see the info on your new barrel/caliber (both personnaly and for Mike's site). If it is possible for you to get me a picture of the round (with a comparison, maybe .223 and .357/.357 MAX). Also, what your experiences are with it. I'm ALWAYS looking for something cool and different. :-) I know it will take you some time, but you can reach me at steve@1cox.com. Thanks, Steve | |||
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I had a 10" 218 mashburn bee made, and was not that impressed. Perhap's I'd had unrealistic expectations at the outset. Anyhow, the way I see it is, if you want a little centerfire, then go with the 22 k-hornet. If you want to get the max practicle performance out of a 10" tube, then go with the 221 fireball, or better yet the rimmed variant. | |||
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.218 bee mike rechamberd a .22 mag 10'' barrel for me to .218 bee. with 40 grain bullets ,shure is a sweet shooting barrel. buckweet | |||
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Buckweet, What kind of velocity are you getting with the 40gr. bullets? Thanks, Bob | |||
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not shure,i dont have a crony, but mr. mike has probly had far more experiance with this round in a 10'' with hornady 40 grain bullets im getting great results, im still playing around with it, the BEE is a easy round too load for,i took mr. mikes advice with this cartridge,i really like it. i have tried light loads with unique, bout like a .22 LR. buckweet | |||
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p.s. by the way , mikes rechamber on my barrel was first rate,he does great work. it was my first ''custom'' barrel worth every penny, buckweet | |||
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quote:Dave, thanks for the report on the DLH rounds, and I see you have some pics below that I have not looked at yet. Yes, so as to keep things as well matched as possible, do send formed cases for me to chamber to, like you did the first time around. Thanks for the kind words. I just have to apologize for the time it took for both. However, one person can only do so much. Hopefully in the future, I will work out a policy/procedure where I can keep the backlog under control, and folks will have better "time factor" information to base their decisions on before committing to a custom project with me. How this will develop I do not know for sure. It is an awkward situation to be in. After I get everything on hand cleared out and start with a pretty much clean slate about October/November, I will continue to batch things as much as I can and will try to set certain "windows" during which time I will take specified jobs and do them as expeditiously as possible. With this in mind, if others want a .22 DLH (which is as good a name as any for your innovation), we need to be thinking now of getting barrels ordered/bought and set aside for when I "push the go button" to do them as a batch. Batching the work makes ever so much difference both in efficiency, but even more so in what I learn from barrel to barrel tweaking out the last little bit I can in each one. Jumping from one job to the next all the time, I just don't have the opportunity to see the same things I do when I batch them and see certain trends or come to certain conclusions. Batching lets me better blend the "consumate experimenter" nature in me with more of a bent toward "production" while keeping it as truly custom as possible. Keep us posted on the .22 for sure. Thanks again for the privilege of being a part of your projects. Mike | |||
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