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| <J�rgen> |
Hi Dalton , looks good to me ! What comes to my mind is the calculation of cost vs. usefulness ? Don`t get me wrong , I`m a wildcat afficionado too , but how much is the parent case and the dies ? How much the reamer and how many passes do you need to form it ? A 223 is hard to beat in cost and efficiency ! But I have to admit that a RIM is a RIM and in a break open gun that`s the way it should be ! Keep us posted ! | ||
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| <Dalton> |
quote:The time and money it takes to do this is something to consider which is probably why alot of people don't wildcat. Personally I think that wildcatting is half the fun of shooting. ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon} Here is what you need to make these cases. Note that cases will need to be annealed prior to forming. Redding 256Win Mag Form #2 Form Die 256Win Mag FL Die 221FB FL Die The 357Max cases themselves can be bought at Midsouth Shooters Supply for $31/250ct so the brass is not that expensive. Mike Bellm did the chamber work for me with what he already has, so I did not have to purchase a reamer. I guess if I wanted cheap and easy I would buy a Remington 700 in 308Win and shoot military ammo. ![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif){kind=icon} | ||
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| one of us |
Jurgen, I have over 500 reamers and grind what I need as I need them to get the dimensions I need. Where most shops think they have to justify the cost of a single reamer to do a particular chamber, I manipulate the dimensions from a number of reamers to get the dimensions I need. Where most shops aren't even up to sharpening their own reamers, I routinely sharpen and rework my reamers anyway, as well as make new ones. So the matter of custom requests like "Dalton's" causes about as much disruption as a hiccup and provides an interesting change of pace to keep the mind twirling. For example, when I am chambering for .308 Bellm, I have at least 6 reamers laid out to cut the one chamber. I do not have "a" ".308 Bellm" reamer. I have a number of reamers, the combinations of which give the dimensions I want. Thus, doing a wildcat chamber is usually no problem at all. What is a problem and the limiting factor is the cost and availability of custom dies. It is for this reason that I focus on things using dies or combinations of dies that are readily available. In the case of the .22 DLH, I am simply running the .221 Fireball reamer in to get the proper chamber body depth (shoulder location), extending the neck the appropriate amount, throating separately as I always do anyway, and lathe boring the rim counterbore in the end of the barrel, again, as I nearly always do anyway for the rimmed bottle neck cases. So even adding the rim to the chamber does not even cause a hiccup. It just depends on who is doing the chamber work. Had to chuckle to myself recently when someone told me that "xxxx " custom shop could not cut such and such a chamber when I know full well they have the reamers to do the job, but just don't know how to use them. Wildcats? What are they? Just another set of dimensions. For that matter, you could say that I "wildcat" the standards. To some extent I cut most of the standards "non-standard." Just having fun and getting paid for doing it. Mike | |||
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| one of us |
Dalton, Thanks for posting the pic and the procedure. I'd be privileged to have it on the website with your approval, and I'm sure others would appreciate seeing some data with it when you have more. Again, you did very well with the design, and it has a lot of merit. Mike | |||
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| <Dalton> |
quote:Thanks for the compliment Mike. I really do love this little case and I think it will be a shooter. You are more than welcome to use this picture on your website. I will email it to you tonight when I get home. If you have any problems with the picture let me know and I will throw it on a disk and snail mail it to you along with the fireformed cases. | ||
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| one of us |
Nice looking little round, and the way you are doing the brass is probably cheaper than having dies made. I think CH4D has die sets listed for this chambering if you are ever interested in having a set. good luck and let us know how it goes for you. | |||
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| one of us |
Seems that someone was there first. The following url at http://www.reloadbench.com/cartridges/w224rc.html identifies your 22 DLH wildcat as a 224 R-C Maxi developed about 15 years ago. | |||
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| <Dalton> |
quote:I've heard of people necking down 357Max cases to everything from 22cal to 30cal. I would even be willing to bet that someone had the same idea before those guys did. This is by no means a revolutionary idea. It looks like they took a 222Rem die and wacked some length off of it instead of using the 221FB die as I did. Otherwise these two case are almost identical. Almost. ![[Razz]](images/icons/tongue.gif){kind=icon} Either way the point here is not to come up with something that no person ever thought of. That is impossible. It's just to explore the possibilities of what could be done. Call the case what you will, but I will continue to call it the 22DLH. | ||
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| <Headstamp> |
The 224 RC Maxi (circa 1987) uses 222 Rem dies as standard length. The shellholder was ground off .002" for proper shoulder placement. That's according to COTW. I think the idea, in the case of the DLH, of using the 221 FB die has merit. Then simply use a 357 Mag carbide sizer to size the base of the case IF needed. The only thing I might do different with necking down is an intermediate step of using a 30 Mauser sizing die before the 256 die but that's personal preference. the Lee 30 Mauser die works perfectly for this. Dalton, do you have to turn necks or did Mike cut the neck of the chamber larger? Have fun with that little round. Regards | ||
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| one of us |
Dalton The purpose of my post was to share information, not to insult. I hope that you didn't take it that way. regards retired jeff | |||
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| <Headstamp> |
Not to speak for Dalton but, I don't think he took it that way Jeff as indicated by the smiley. In the arena of wildcats, there is very little that's new under the sun. I myself try to look at them from the standpoint of strictly a further interest in the reloading/shooting hobby, not trying to reinvent the wheel. I also find it kind of neat to have one that can utilize standard dies without going the custom die route and the attending problems with that. I'm also thankful that Mike will work with the wildcatter in this area, offering suggestions on what is worthwhile to persue and taking the time to make it happen for a reasonable cost. You could call the Bellm cartridges, Para-Wildcats. BTW, welcome to the board. Regards | ||
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| one of us |
In regard to the comments about the .224 R-C, if you use the standard .222 Rem. die, it leaves a much shorter neck length, more like that on a .223 Rem. Dave's neck length is closer to that of the .222 Rem. Thus, he has a shorter case body than the .224 R-C. And, frankly, with the faster powders like H-322 that are popular in the .222 Rem., he will probably have ample capacity with his cartridge. I noted that on the picture of the gun you sent, the barrel is still marked .221 FB Rimmed as we left it. Might I suggest instead of calling it .22 DLH, we make the connection to the use of the .221 FB dies and call it .221 DLH? Dave, be sure to send me formed/size cases, not fireformed cases. I want cases made up exactly like you will be using to load and will cut the chamber to them, as well as test fire with them. Ie., in order to chamber the barrel and test fire, I could resize your fireformed cases, but I will not get the same headspace location of the shoulder that you will, unless by accident or lucky guesstimation. Send your formed/sized cases, ready to load.... and have it your way, just like the burger joint with the same claim. Mike | |||
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| <Dalton> |
quote:No offense taken at all. Like I said everything that can be done probably has been done. | ||
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| <Dalton> |
quote:Mike made the neck area a little bigger so I do not have to turn the necks down. Incidentally I think the Redding 256Win Mag Form Die #2 that I am using as the first step in the process takes the case down to 30cal. So you could probably use the 30Mauser die in lieu of the form die. It has to be cheaper. | ||
|
Moderator |
What is the length of the barrel on your 22 DLH? I'm pondering another 22 centerfire, in a 10", and had been thinking of the 221 fireball, but your wildcat has piqued my interest, especially as I'm waiting on a 357 max, and also have a pile of 223 brass that needs a use. So, do you think the capacity of the 22 DLH is too much for a 10" tube? | |||
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| one of us |
I'll jump in if I may. In a 10" barrel, the Fireball is probably optimum, since even .222 Rem. capacity can be a little problematic in the short barrels sometimes and seems to prefer the faster powders to make it work. The somewhat reduced capacity of the .221 DLH (note I am adding the "1" for the connection to the .221 dies used for it) is a move in the right direction for a short barrel, I believe. One cartridge that always intriqued me, but I have not used personally, is the .22 Super Jet. But since it has the sharp shoulder, it requires custom dies. This round, the .218 Bee, and the .218 Bee Imp. are about the best, though not the optimum, choices in a 10" barrel, I believe. And as I mentioned earlier, I do want to play with the 5.7 Johnson, which while also not optimum, would be quite efficient in a 10." One could use .357 Magnum brass and shortened .221 FB dies, I believe, to make a shorter .357 Mag. based version of Dave's (Dalton's) case. Sorry, but I met Dave and his wife face to face in Illinois at a gunshow last Thanksgiving, and he is still Dave in my mind. ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif){kind=icon} .221 DLH "short?" Or, .221 DLH Mag. and .221 DLH Max.?Mike | |||
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| <Dalton> |
quote:The barrel I am using is an 11". I finally got a chance to test this baby out on Friday and will be posting the data later in the week, but suficed to say I am excited. I agree with Mike about the 221FB loads in this length of barrel being optimum. I saw little if any speed advantage to using the 222Rem loads in this barrel. Although the extra flash is impressive. I think a 14" or 15" barrel would see noticable improvement however with the extra case capacity that this cartridge provides. My wife is getting a 20" barrel chambered in 22DLH and I will be using 222Rem loads in it but will stick to 221FB loads in my 11" tube. I shoot the 357Max as well which is what prompted me to try necking it down in the first place. It's nice to be able to use one case for both my deer hunting and varmint hunting needs. | ||
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one of us |
quote:Now that sounds REALLY interesting!! I am partial to the 10" barrels and do like the Fireball but a 357mag necked down to 22 in a fairly straight walled case sounds like a winner!! Hmmmmmmm, wonder how long it will take me to find a 22 cal barrel to rechamber..... | |||
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