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I have been looking at some of the prices and calibers offered by Van Horn , How is the overall quality of his work ? How Long of a wait ? any thoughts ? | ||
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Does DVH still offer carbine barrel lengths for the same price as pistol barrels?  $bob$ | |||
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I have had four Van Horn barrels thus far, and all have been exceptional shooters! I still have two, a 22Short match 15", and a 17HRM 14" and they are both increadible  When he is not having problems, Van Horn is usually a two or three week turn around. Don't bother trying to contact him with e-mail - a phone call is really necessary. Very good work, and like Bob said, he charges the same price for pistol or carbine lengths, which is a real plus over the $30-$50 upcharge folks for various barrel lengths | |||
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I had a 15" .256 Winch. Contender barrel made by Dave and it was super accurate, I would not hesitate to purchase another one of his barrels. Ike | |||
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IKE Wrote Quote: Ike, I have had the same experience regarding his accuracy. Every one of my DVH barrels have been real shooters! When did you order that .256, and how long did it take to arrive? Do you still have it? Smokin54 Wrote Quote: Along these lines, it would be interesting to compare the delivery times of all the custom makers, VVCG, Bullberry, SSK, Reeder, OTT, DVH, Eabco, etc. Any thoughts from others on who is the fastest and the slowest? Steve E Wrote Quote: Steve, the engraved animals are a very nice touch! I have a Woodchuck on my 17HRM 14" DVH barrel. My 223 had a Woodchuck as well, my 7TCU had a ram, and my 22Short match has no engraving at all [probably he could not think of what animal I'd possibly shoot with it ] | |||
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I got my Van Horn barrel in 2 weeks from the day I ordered it. Others I talk with took longer. SSK has a fast turnaround time on rechambers but I never got a new barrel from them and I never will. VVCG has always met there time they quoted me and do very nice work. OTT Mike is who is doing all my custom work at this time. He is one of my very best friends and his work is 2nd. to none in accuracy. | |||
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Jules, What is OTT Mike's typical turnaround time? Mark | |||
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Sean I traded into the barrel but the fella I got it from said it only took three weeks to arrive. No I don't have it anymore, I made the mistake of I letting a fella sweet talk me out of it. Ike | |||
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With the work he has at this time I would say 6 to 8 weeks at least but you may wanna check with him on that.  | |||
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Quote: Jules, If that is a reply to my question about Mike's time frame at OTT, is it a typo? You did mean to say he is running 6-8 months, correct? I know it can not be weeks. Mark | |||
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Quote: Maybe I should tell Dave that I recommend an engraving of a house cat for the .22 short barrel!  | |||
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Mark, I believe Mike has been delivering in 6-8 weeks or less, consistently, since he started. I've yet to hear differently although as time goes on there's likely to be an exception. Ask him yourself at Specialty Pistols Forum or MBM Co & On Target Technologies. Mike is a stand up guy. | |||
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Quote: Hobie, I appreciate this kind of endorsement form the folks on this list. Your opinions are all valued. It is this kind of group good will that led me to order a barrel from OTT in the first place. However my experiences with Mike have been less than praise worthy and I wanted to get a feel from the rest of the community on their experiences before I made any comments. Thursday will mark the 22ND weekly anniversary of my order even though I was quoted 10-12 weeks completion time. The more frustrated I get over this transaction and talk about it with folks, the more I learn that I am not alone. Mark | |||
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IKE Writes Quote: Ike, I know the feeling! There are several barrels I let go of over the years that I wish I had back right now..... B_Koes Writes Quote: B_Koes, LOLOLOL! Actually, that is not far from the truth, though I am an avid cat fan [they keep the barns here pretty rodent free]. I primarily use this barrel to shoot barn Rats [those to fierce for the cats ], field Voles, Starlings etc. Now an engraving of a field Vole on a Van Horn barrel would be really, really cool BTW, Mark, Jules, Hobie and others, I ordered based upon reports such as those made by Jules and others last year on the exceptional quality and timeliness and fast delivery of his work, and this friday will mark 14 weeks since I sent the deposite in and placed my first OTT order last November....  | |||
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Mark and Sean, Now I've seen Sean around the net a bit and I know where he's coming from but I don't know Mark (I don't think). However, I'm truly saddened to hear this. | |||
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Mark, I know Mike has alot of work to get out but I don't talk with him on that matter. I was thinking of the quoted time he told me when he first started making barrels and that was 6 to 8 weeks for 1 barrel. I guess now with him having alot more work that time has changed. I guess it would be better if you talked to him on this matter as it seems now i'm not sure how long it will take. | |||
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Wow, First off, I have seen a few examples of Van Horn's work and think he does a good job. They shoot like hell I hear. But that is my opinion. Now about this delivery stuff. I quote around 14 weeks now. I run two businesses and both require differing amounts of attention. That is not intended as an excuse at all. Mark, you are part of the first bbl deal I have ever done, the 500 S&W Deal. That deal is very late due to some reasons that were not necessarily accepted, and other reasons that will not be discussed here. Call me if you like. I am surprised to see this posted on a forum other than the Yahoo group that has been set up for this discussion. Your bbl along with the other 17 in the group are in process and I cannot give you a delivery time to be honest but it is not that far away from completion. Since it is part of the group purchase, all barrels will go out on the same day. I will not rush the job because I do and will stand behind these when done. Sean, your bbl is in the works too. Cannot really deliver yours if the order was taken after this deal's can I? Didn't know you were counting weeks. Sorry it is late and I thought you would understand seeing you are a moderator on the 500 Deal list. Call me and we can talk about it. I would appreciate that. Jules, thanks for the compliments and assistance. So in short, I am late on some things. I guess that delivery is what is most important, not that the barrel and certain aspects of the chambering is done specifically to the customers request for a production type cost. I guess we all can be a little disappointed now, I know I am. The work will be done and I hope you enjoy shooting them when they are received. Thanks again, | |||
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Mike said to Mark..... "Call me if you like. I am surprised to see this posted on a forum other than the Yahoo group that has been set up for this discussion." Mike, Mark DID post on the sissiesneednotapply forum. His post was entered today at 2:50pm Eastern. Group organizer, $bob$ | |||
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Seems like a reasonable explanation. That is a BIG group deal! I have to say that while I was told 6 weeks for the deal done with Mr. Van Horn, it was closer to 12 or 13 weeks (funny how you forget after you've got the prize in your hands ) and a Bullberry with the same quoted delivery time took about the same time, 12 weeks 4 days. Mike's system of EDM machining of the chambers should provide a consistently precise chamber and he can do anything safely reasonable without a wait for reamers (if I understood correctly). | |||
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sissiesneednotapply forum?????? Never heard of that one. Is that something new? | |||
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Quote: Thanks Bob, I will see it in the morning then. Thanks again, | |||
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No Jules it was a forum set up just for the 500 S&W magnum group purchase, I'm in on the 500 Deal too and I see how Mark feels. | |||
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Quote: Mike, Greetings! Thank you for taking the time to respond to others here, and to voice your own concerns and thoughts. When I spoke with you on the phone in November and sent you my order and $250.00 deposite, I was told at that time that my order would come after the 500S&W group deal. That was fine, and normal business practice concerning priority. However, I was told at that time that the 500S&W deal was to be completed in Dec or very early January at the latest, and I could expect a mid January delivery date. We are well past those dates now. This would not normally cause me that much concern, but when I see others whose OTT projects seem to have been started after mine and after the 500S&W group deal, getting delivered well before mine and the 500S&W group deal, it causes me to start counting the weeks and wonder what is going on. If you cannot really deliver mine because my order was taken after the group deal [which is what I would expect as normal business practice and I HAVE NEVER ASKED that mine be delivered before the group deal] then it follows that you cannot really deliver anyone else's order if their order was taken after the 500S&W deal. Yet I wonder about that policy when I see posts on other forums, like the poster who posted on your forum over at Specialty Pistols and got his OTT .17 Mach IV on January 15th that also states in a Feb 23rd post "that Mike built several weeks ago." Was the "several weeks ago" before the January 15th and February 23rd dates, prior to the October 1st 2003 500S&W group deal? There have been numerous folks on the other forum posting about new OTT barrels that they have recieved through November, December, and January. Now if all of these were all orders taken before the October 1st 500S&W group deal and my order, then I can understand their priority and delivery. However, the apparent timing of these deliveries, and statements made by other customers which indicate planning and ordering later than the 500S&W group deal, are what have me more than a little confused regarding your policy of not producing barrels on ANY orders taken after the 500S&W group deal. So, due to this confusion, I will ask you: Have you taken any orders at all after the October 1st 2003 500S&W group deal was placed, that you have produced and delivered since then and prior to completing the group deal? I may call you and we can talk about it in the next several days. I keep hearing absolutely stellar things about your quality of workmanship and about your delivery times, and I even see frequent posts on the other forum from folks who have recieved barrels pretty fast, Jules and others even stating 6-8 weeks as normal delivery time, and I keep wondering about the group deal and my order in light of such reports and in light of what I see of others who have recieved barrels..... | |||
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I can see where this thread is going. | |||
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All I can say is see my post on the Specalty Pistols Forum. I think it goes for every custom barrel company and individual. http://specialtypistols.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=9066056864&f=3436077864&m=6096080475 | |||
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Jules so can I. I have a Van Horn 14 inch 6tcu barrel with Redding Deluxe die set and 100 cases to sell to one of these Dudly do rights. Will give them a great deal. | |||
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From the sissiesneednotapply remark I take it that the decision was to get .500 S&W barrels. I think that's what $bob$ is referring to and that he's not being derogatory towards anyone. It was due to my desire for a .32-20 (.312") barrel that I started with the group buy but I could see where it was going. Not many people will want what I want. Watching the $$ a little more closely lately and I have nothing which will handle the .500 although it might be interesting in an Encore carbine.Anyway, Mike responded on the Specialty Pistols Forum and his response seems reasonable. Given the number of TC nuts out there, all these custom makers seem to have to hustle to keep up. Good for them, bad for us. In an era of routine overnight delivery of any number of consumer goods, it seems that many of us have lost a bit of patience that was once a necessary component of life. It was once true that the shipping alone would add 6 weeks to the delivery wait! People who do good work will eventually have people standing in line to get some of that work. In some other fields or with other custom products, one must look at a 14+ MONTH wait. Personally, I try to plan for any known delivery delay or work around it. | |||
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Hey Guys it is easy to get wanting something faster then your getting it. I started a project with Mike & I wasn't in a hurry. After some time had past I started to get impatient also. I think that is just human nature to get anxious for something that you order. Anyway Mike did an excellent job on my newest barrel. I have to tell you after shooting a group like this.  It really makes the time well worth the wait. There were a couple of little details that had to be fixed also but Mike is a gentleman & took care of everything. Don't worry you won't be disappointed. Hey I'm the most impatient guy in the world ! I'm glad I did business with Mike!!!! | |||
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Hello Rich, When did you order your barrel and when did you get it? $bob$ | |||
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I too am part of the 500S&W deal. Yes, it has been a long time in getting done. But let me fill you in on two other companies with some major wait time a whole lot bigger then Mike. I ordered a custom set of dies from Redding, told 18 to 24 weeks, and they have made these dies before, they are on thier die list. I have two T/C's ordered for my local dealer. One a G2, complete w/223 S14 barrel order date 07/18/03; second a SS Encore frame to go with my blue one, order date 08/06/03. I have talked to the dealer just after the new year and he siad that T/C is running about 6 months behind and sometimes more. But then again I am not in a rush for any of them I have others to play with. Could have I found them else where sooner, yes. But I choose to take the wait, yes, Mike is running behind but I would much rather wait and get a top notch product then to get something that I have to send back because it is not right. Just my $.02. | |||
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Bob I really don't have it all down to tell you the truth. I think that I started talking to Mike about it in the end of June. I sent the money for the blank sometime in July I believe. I told him It was no rush as it was a long term project for me. I don't know how long it took for him to get the blank. I think he waited to buy my blank when he was making a big order. Anyway it was a Douglas Blank 1:9 twist chrome moly bull blank 29" long. It was to be made into a 280 AI barrel with a six screw mount & fluted total Length was to be 28"s. I think that it arrived in January. I had a small problem & it had to go back to be looked at. I got it back about Febuary 10th give or take a day or two. The problem that I had was with the dies that were used & the fact that I was dealing with an AI chambering. Anyway everything was taken care of. I remember around Dec I started to get itchy wanting to work on the new project, cabin fever maybe? I know somewhere in there the barrel deal got started. I have no problem with the time Mike took to complete the order since I told him it was not a rush. While all that was going on I sent a second barrel to Mike to be rechambered as well. I have no idea when that one will be done, but I'm not worried since I know it will shoot once it is finished. | |||
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Thanks Rich, I think we all want to believe in Mike. Sincerely, $bob$ | |||
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Nice Bob, When it comes to statements like the last one, it does not reflect the reasoning as to why you asked directly when Rich ordered his. Thanks Rich for the support and it is appreciated. RJ said no rush and we talked along the way. When "no rush" is given, no rush means just that. When Rich ordered his is irrelevant. Keep on stirring this pot though, really makes for a great working enviornment. Thanks again RJ and Grovere, Mike | |||
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Bob WE do believe in Mike. I also have a barrel on order and I also said no rush. If fact I have ordered another barrel and its also no rush. I have a 221 fireball barrel from Mike and its outstanding in every way. I have had custom barrels from several barrel makers and none of them even come close to the outstanding work Mike does. Mike did a rechamber for me on one of the top barrel makers barrels and now the barrel does shoot the way I expected at first. I didn't come and bash the other barrel maker for the barrel did shoot but not the way I expected it should. Now after the rechamber it is one I will keep. Without getting personnal I was wondering what your motive is in starting this thread. I have found Mike ready to talk to me and expain my questions any time I have called him. Did you contact Mike and ask him the questions you asked here? I'm not flaming and really know Mike goes out of his way to please but will not take short cuts and that is to be admired. respectfully Tommy from SW Mo. | |||
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Hello Mike, Yes... It's very obvious what I was asking and Rich was quite honest with his answer. That was what I expected from Rich Jake. I am on a fact finding mission. It appears that there is a lot of misinformation around about your delivery times. I am trying to avoid rumors and deal in facts. It appears, so far that Jules is the only person that was under the impression that your delivery times were much shorter than they actually are. You promised the 500 S&W group a delivery time of December 23rd. Then you changed it to mid-January. Then you told us it would be the end of January. Now you won't give us a prospective completion date. Those are facts. Some people are willing to wait and don't have a problem with that and some others do. Those also are facts. Have you already delivered any barrels that were ordered after October 1st, 2003? You can stop all the speculation and questions people are asking by providing a direct answer to this question. Sincerely, $bob$ | |||
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Hello Tommy, Yes... Mike and I communicate as often as his busy schedule will allow. In fact he called me this morning and we send emails fairly often. What started this thread is people wanting Mike to honor his committments and if he can't do that for whatever reason to make another committment. There are also several misunderstandings that Mike and I are struggling to bring to light and resolve. It may appear that I'm "after Mike". Nothing could be farther from the truth. I am doing everything I possibly can to help things go smoothly between him and the group buy deal people. It's a long story and since this has spilled out onto forums I'm considering allowing people that are truly interested to join the group buy deal list to see for themselves what has been said and done. Sincerely, $bob$ | |||
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Yes, and we all know the situation will be completely straightened out right here on the forum. Right, Bob? The more the merrier, right? Of course, Mike will work faster and all the barrels will be done immediately because this was discussed here. Methinks the only interest you have Bob, is saving face and attempting to turn the discussion away from yourself now. The classic "bomb-thrower". Instigate an altercation/discussion and then step back and watch the fun with a little "prodding" here and there to keep it going. I know your history. Honestly, I have no idea why it is necessary to start this same old BS story on yet another forum thread, ad nauseum. Custom makers, blah, blah, blah. Delivery time, blah, blah, blah. Call reputations into question and start arguments and then divide once civil discourses into flame wars. I see it starting already and I am sick to death of it. And we all know at the end of it, we'll be back where we started, solving NOTHING. Tell you what. Custom is custom. Don't like the wait , go elsewhere. But you won't, because the prices and work are just too damn good to pass up, right? Well, consider it a trade off. Mike is doing the best he can with the time he has. He is a one man shop who is currently swamped with work due to what was stated in the couple past sentences, price and work quality. Have any problems, DEAL DIRECTLY WITH THE PERSON THROUGH E-MAIL. Enough of this horseshit already. It serves no purpose whatsoever in the long run. My apologies to the board as a whole for the tenor of this post but it's frankness I won't apologize for. Regards | |||
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Custom barrel makers live in the same world I do........my issues have nothing to do with how long...more if I am given a delivery date make it a delivery date not a wild guess that isn't going to happen. It comes down to doing what you say you are going to do when you say you will do it. The first custom I ordered took more than two months longer than I was told. The next one from a different co. took exactly the amount of time I was originally told. Same with the third. My fourth is on order right now and time will tell. Face it they aren't buildin space shuttles.....they're gun barrels not swiss watches. | |||
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Headstamp, The issue has nothing to do with how long the wait is. The issue has to do with making a commitment and failing to meet that commitment, making a new commitment and failing to meet that one, then doing it again and again and again. I do not want Mike to magically work faster, I want Mike to show that the trust we placed in him when we turned our hard earned money over to him was not a mistake. When I place a custom order with any vendor, I expect a delivery date to be set and I expect that vendor to meet his delivery date withing a reasonable margin or error. If up front Mike had said it is going to be half a year project (it will be in a few short weeks) and then kept his word this would be a non-issue since we would all have known up front what to expect. He did not do that. As the delivery date that he set drew near there was an excuse why it would be a couple more weeks, then another couple weeks, then another couple of weeks until finally on February 3rd (19 weeks after he took our deposits and 7-9 weeks after his promised delivery date) he tells us he does not know when they will be done but we should be calm and we will all eventually get our barrels. I felt that perhaps this was the way that he always did business, that is why I spoke to several people and asked on forums what kind of experiences others have had with him. What he has now proposed to those that are tired of his missed promises is to send us the pieces that he has completed so far. This kind of emotional answer is not what I expect from a mature businessman. Bob has proposed opening up the forum so that everyone that has only heard half the story can go read all of the posts themselves. Personally I think this is a wonderful idea. There are 17 other people that are in the same boat as I am. That is why this should not be discussed on the telephone and then passed on to the group. This needs to be an open discussion so that all of us can read the responses for ourselves and draw our own conclusions. Mark | |||
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Sheesh...where's ol' GB to lock down a thread when ya need him?! LOL Looks like this one could even be deleted. It just goes to prove that you can't fool all of the people all of the time...or maybe that saying was supposed to be you can't please everybody. Yeah, that sounds like the right one. It seems to me that group purchases aren't in anybody's best interest. From the last one that nearly seemed to send DVH's reputation into the crapper for a while, to this one that seems to be getting a known good guy (OTT Mike) into hot water. I guess I'm hoping the whiners just decide to go away and free up Mike's time so I can get a barrel from him and not have to wait for this group deal to finish first. In reflecting upon all sorts of "barrel talk" over the past couple of years, which maker hasn't gotten hammered by one or many disgruntled customers? I can't think of one...so just deal with missed "deadlines" or only buy existing barrels. | |||
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