Hey guys,
The July 15 edition of Shotgun News shows on page 26- Sellier & Bellot 5.6x50R ammo for $8.95 per box of 20. Maybe you guys with the Bellm wildcats using this cartridge case could buy the ammo, disassemble it, use the 50 grain softpoint in your .223 or whatever, and use the brass for your Bellm Contenders. At about $45 per 100 rounds,this not far off of the once fired price.
Just a thought! The website is www.jgsales.com

Just checked out the JG Sales web site and they didn't have any 5.6x50R Ammo listed. They had 5.6x52R. Maybe they haven't updated their site yet. May have to give them and phone call!

Outback

Outback, I couldn't find the 5.6X50R ammo either on the website. May well just not have everything listed on the site. I went ahead and requested a catalog. My Contender barrel is a 6X50R Bellm. Wonder if one could pull the 22 cal bullet from the factory 5.6X50R ammo, dump the powder, expand the neck to 6 mm, reload the powder, seat a 6 mm bullet, and then use this load as a fireforming load for the 6X50R Bellm? 'Oughta work if the powder charge is sufficient, don't you think. Might be something to consider. Gary T.

That may work, but since you don't know what kind of powder it is I would be scared of it especially if the 6mm bullet you use is much heavier than the 50 gr bullet that came in it.

5.6x52R, btw, is the European name for .22 Savage Hi-Power.

Ref. factory 5.6x50R ammo & pulling bullets, pick the fastest powder shown in the manuals for this round and compare that to the charge in factory ammo. Use this as a guide, back off maybe 25% if you are really unsure of things, then work back up until you get a fully fireformed case.

IF they would sell the 5.6x50R factory ammo at anything close to $10 per box, the standard round would be an excellent choice as is without even being Bellm-ized.

And...... You do NOT have to go out and spend mega $$ for custom dies. You can load this one best with .222 Rem. Mag. dies backed off the appropriate amount. Standard .223 Rem. dies work well also. With either of these die sets, adding a Lee carbide .357 Mag. size die lets you size the case webs when required. They normally size smaller than most other types of .357 Mag dies.... work great.

Top inside of the Lee .357 dies has to be bored out to clear the longer bodied Bellm versions, BUT, the standard round is smaller at the shoulder, and the Lee .357 Mag. size die should not have to be altered for it. In the event the die has to be altered, I normally don't even charge for this. Just takes a few minutes with a carbide boring bar in the lathe.

I just wish that a good reliable source of 5.6x50 R brass could be established. It lets us do some pretty awesome things in Contenders that the larger diameter cases won't let us do, and most, except for my maximized Bellm version, do not even require custom dies..... just TCU dies and the appropriate .357 Mag. size die. That's all.

They share the same 40 degree shoulder angle and the .370" shoulder diameter, as well as the approx. .375" head diameter.

The 5.6x50 R Bellm and the standard 5.6x50R are pictured on the site on the .222 Rem. Mag. Imp. page.

Mike Bellm web page

Gary T
I sent an e-mail to J&G Sales and they said they had some 5.6x50R Ammo left. They are closing it out. I ordered five boxes on line. I would have ordered more if I knew for sure the necks would be like the RWS Brass and not the Hirtenberger.
I can use the thinner necks in my 6x50R Bellm but not the 6.5x50R Bellm.

Outback

[ 07-20-2002, 04:48: Message edited by: Outback ]

Outback, How did the S&B brass work out? Gary T.

Gary T:
I got the ammo from J&G Sales. I pulled the bullets and dumped the powder. I haven't fired and of the rounds yet. But what I did was size one up to 7mm as if it were expanded during firing then back down to 6.5mm. I loaded up some fireforming loads, and yes there is enough neck tension. While I was sizing the few that I did, I had one neck split all the way down to the shoulder. They may need to be annealed before sizing. Also I checked the neck thickness of the RWS, Hirtenberger and the Sellior & Bellot. The RWS is the thickest then the Sellier & Bellot was real close to the RWS but a little thinner and the Hirtenberger is the thinest.

Outback

Outback, Keep us up to date. Gary T.

Did Sellier and Bellot ever bring their brass into the country?

Thanks for the tip on the S&B necks. Cartridges on the 5.6x50 R brass may still be viable inspite of the disappointments over the Hirtenberger brass.

Mike

Hey, here's one for you.
Redding told me they had one set of .30 TCU dies on hand, extra from custom dies they made for someone.

Ultimate 10" round when made from the 5.6x50 R brass full length, assuming the necks will expand that far ok?

Even taken back to standard TCU headspacing, it should be a good round in a 10" barrel, rimmed or rimless. It should push 125-130 gr. bullets faster than 7mmTCU does in a 10" barrel.... better expansion ratio.

Necks that split on 5.6x50 R based cases can no doubt be salvaged by lopping them off and necking down to .30 cal.

Trouble is that Redding wanted about $130 retail for the dies.....

I may be getting set up with Redding in the not too distant future. One project in mind is .30x.221 Imp., which is what the Whisper should have been in the first place. Why leave the shoulder at .360" diameter when the case is much better served by a sharp shoulder angle and the same .370" diameter of the TCU rounds?

Would be a less expensive proposition for Illinois handgun deer hunters, for example, than .30 Bellm. The slight increase in capacity should help bridge the gap between .30x.221/.300 Whisper and the .30 Bellm & .30 Herrett types.

Say what you will about rimmed v. rimless, but I grew up picking corn in January in central Illinois, and trying to handle small objects repairing a picker/sheller in cold weather is a pain. A handgun season in January was a back handed concession to deer hunters. Combining the increased case capacity with a rim from a .357 Max. case would result in a better .300 Whisper-type cartridge that is much easier to load and unload, sans the spring tension on the small diameter, rimless .221 Fireball case head.

If I pursue .30x.221 Imp. dies, any length of .375" diameter case head cases can be loaded using them when combined with a .357 Mag. pistol size die that will size down to about .376" or preferrably smaller as we are now doing with the 5.6x50 R based cases. I may have to cheat a little on the chamber wall body taper, but I am sure I can work around it.

Existing .300 Whisper barrels could be rechambered for the Imp. version also, but of course new dies would be required.

If one wanted to shorten the throat in a .300 Whisper barrel, going to the Imp. based on full length .357 Max brass would fix that.

If the rim was not an issue, .300 Whispers could also be taken out to the same headspace as the TCUs using standard .223 Rem. brass.

Look at all the fun to be had.

TC Heretic

If the rim was not an issue, .300 Whispers could also be taken out to the same headspace as the TCUs using standard .223 Rem. brass.

Look at all the fun to be had.

TC Heretic

Hey Mike
Are you tring to drive me crazy? These ideas are what I was interested in a year ago or so. I like the sound of the 300 Whsper improved with the 223 Brass. Is this something that you are going to do definitely? I'm very interested ! This is one project that I don't think that I could resist. Let me know please.
Rich Jake

Mike Bellm:
As far as I know, no one is bringing S&B Brass into this country. The loaded ammo I got from J&G Sales was a closeout of 5.6x50R loaded ammo.

Outback

Mike, Regarding S&B, no, they never did start importing their brass to the US. They did NOT respond to the multiple e-mails I sent them last fall/winter asking them the same question. Gary T.

A while back, a fellow with direct connections to S&B told me they were indeed going to import brass into the country, including the 5.6x50R. He insisted it would happen. An e-mail to S&B indicated that may be a project "in the works", but they never confirmed nor denied it. That was somewhat over a year ago, if memory serves. Now, my e-mails are not returned, so I guess it isn't about to happen.

Got my hopes up for nothing......