been reading all the info on your site,,and again
POW !!!
trying your idea on fireforming cases..
im still learning ..i know im way far behind everyone here,,
but the experiment every contender owner should do was like a light bulb going on !!
so ??? im still in the dark ??? lol
buckweet

I guess "The Experiment....." was written for the "Show Me State." I could explain it 'til hell froze over, but until one takes the extractor out and sees for himself what ACTUALLY happens, he can actually be worse than the subjects in "Blonde Jokes."

To Wit, back in the "pond," little "p," there was a discussion about this again not long ago, but I wonder if ANY of the posters had actually done the experiment, or if they paid attention to what they saw when they saw it.

Some of the discussion was about SAAMI loads not setting back, which was bull. Only relatively low pressures in dry chambers that are not very smooth will not set back, and with the extractor out, you can very definitely test this for yourself.

Some rounds, like straight sided .30 Carbine for example, in a less than really smooth chamber may not set back.

Relatively low pressure .35 Rem. may or may not set back, depending on the surface finish in the chamber..... this is with factory ammo.

Any normal .223 Rem. load will set back.

Unless the primer bugs out of a fired case, with the extractor in place, one does not have a clue where the case head is after firing.... ie., whether, or how hard, it has set back against the breech face. Nor can he tell if the frame has stretched any during that firing's pressure cycle.

Setback DOES vary, and I certainly recommend testing it out under a variety of conditions with a variety of pressure levels.

IF the fired case head is not setting back hard against the breech face, and it is not protruding from the end of the barrel more than the actual amount of the barrel to frame gap, THEN neck sizing is just fine and dandy, but only then.

My general policy against neck sizing or partial full length sizing is made because the vast majority of shooters have been dumbed down by the magazines & tradition and don't think.

"The Experiment......" gives you an opportunity to observe things you miss otherwise and gives you the basis for correctly adjusting your size die instead of doing blind whacky things, then wondering why the gun misfires for example.

Mike Bellm

web page

mike..i guess your right..they dont call this the ''show me'' fer nothing,,,!!!

i was amazed at how much my 7tcu would set back..
now with dies set corectly..i have no problem's whatever,brass lasts forever,shooting better than i can hold it,,
just keep beating the info into this ol'' thickheaded missouri mule..
we thank ya !!!

buckweet

You are more than welcome. It's my pleasure to be of help passing on what I have learned.

In regard to Missouri, for the two short years I lived there, I made some of the very best friends ever. Guess we must be of like mind

It only makes sense, or should, that there is just one distance from the chamber shoulder to the breech face. If the case is too short, that is a problem with excess headspace and all its evils. If it is too long you have to "fose it," and that just ain't too bright, even though a lot of folks adhere to that approach.

Glad you found the secret!

Mike

FIREBALL..it wern't me holding the rope !!!
after trying out mr. mike's experiment,my 7tcu
is even more accurate,
this might be a helpfull tip..
if you have more than one frame,switch them around
some barrel's fit better n' tighter on differant frame's..mine did,,

buckweet