So here's my dilemma, I want to hunt elk with my Contender, but I'm not a real fan of excessive reciol. What would you all think would be the minimun for elk hunting if the range was kept to less than 150 yards. Standard caliber or wildcat it makes no difference to me, just let me know what you think. I am especially interested in readers who have actual experernce, but I'll listen to everyone. Thanks in advance.

If recoil is your limiting factor I suggest you try shooting some of Bowers' stuff there locally without a brake.

If that does not work, trade recoil for noise and go to the 309JDJ/308Bellm, 338X444 (see Dan's story at http://www.handgunhunt.com), 358 Bellm, 375JDJ/375X444, or the 45-70 ( as JDJ says, 'The best 150 yard sledgehammer out there') with some sort of muzzle tamer/brake.

LouisB

Just an opinion of course

LouisB

"Just an opinion of course[/QB][/QUOTE]"

And a good one, i might add!

[ 09-17-2003, 12:31: Message edited by: sscoyote ]

Don's 6.5 or 7mm case based off of the 307 Win. would definitely work good at those ranges with the right bullet and good placement. Of course the 30 Alaskan would be my top choice but you will have heavier recoil if that is a big issue. I wouldn't put a brake on a 30 Alaskan myself but recoil and an individuals tolerance to it is a very personal thing. Another strong runner would be the 6.5x50R Bellm running a 120 grain at 2500+. You wouldn't have to worry about stressing the frame with Mike's wildcat, but you will likely get a little more velocity with Don's. In all honesty the elk will not be able to tell the difference between the two.
What barrel length are you considering?
Ernie

Given the size of animal you are hunting, you need to determine the max range you are gonna shoot with...If closer you can get less recoil, if further, you are gonna have to deal with more. The caliber recommendations above are real good advice, If you are gonna be in close and recoil is a real issue, I think the 35 remington is a good balance of power vs recoil too. If you can live with the others, I'd go with them.

regards,
Graycg

xp hunter, it would be a 14" barrel.

I would go with Mike's 6.5x50 R Bellm or the 30 Alaskan.
At a 150 yards with Mike's wildcat you should be around 2250 (give or take some of course) with a 120 grain bullet. I don't have data for the 30 Alaskan with a 150 grain bullet at arms reach at the moment.
I have taken bull elk with a 140 partition in 7 mm with bullet impact speeds of 2484, 2,294,2055 and several faster than the first one listed. The faster speeds including the 2484 were cow elk.
With 30 caliber with a 150 grain bullet the impact speed was approximately 2538 fps.
And I plan to be set up to use a 180 grain 30 caliber Sierra Game King out to an impact velocity of 1884 fps. This last velocity is a minimum velocity. Planning on being faster than that, but set this as a min. vel.
Hope this helps.

Ernie

Ernie I have the same question, but with a differnt twist on things.

I have a Super 14 .30-30 Ackley Improved. To date I have worked with the 125gr. & 150gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips for a Whitetail Load. The 125gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip are achieving 2683 FPS average velocity with sub 1" 100 yard 5 shot groups. The 150gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip are achieving 2437 FPS average velocity with 1 1/2" 100 yard 5 shot groups. My barrel is a 1 in 14" Twist if that matters.

Is cartridge going to do the job on an Elk, and if so what would the prefered bullet be (probably not a Ballistic Tip) ?

Thanks

Larry

Yes, your cartridge is adequate for elk. My guess is your 30-30AI is close to equal of what the ole standard thurty-thurty would do in rifle form. Your advantage is a more accurate rig and a better choice of bullets. My 140 partition in 7 mm @ 2055 impact velocity expanded and penetrated to the opposing hide of the medium/large bodied bull elk. I would consider this the far/fine edge with these type of bullets/velocities.
I would suggest the partition because I have used them and the Sierria Game Kings because I know of people I trust who have used them on elk and I know that they have a wider velocity spread / envelope than many bullets. In other words they will perform good enough to do the job over a wider range of velocities than some other bullets.
With a 150 SGK at 8,000 feet above sea level, 40 degrees and 35% humidity @ the MV you gave me you will have 2,022 fps @ 250 yards, 2101 @ 200 yards, and 2182 @ 150 yards. Ballistic Tips can & will work on elk just like Sierra Game Kings will. In fact there is a group of guys that use SMK's for LR big game with great success. I'm saying it is not my top choice for elk, but I must admit I used a 150 NBT for a large cow elk with an impact velocity of 2521 fps (which was 300 yards from my 7.82 Patriot XP-100) and it performed perfectly but I put the bullet exactly where I should have and stayed away from any big bones. It had a beautiful exit wound!
Hope this helps.

Ernie

I have taken one elk with a handgun and it was with the 35 remington loaded to about 1900 fps with a 200 gr rem. corelokt. The shot was across a small canyon in New Mexico aat about 200 yards distance. The penetration was complete, but the expansion was not good. Still the result was a dead elk....found some 250 yards down the mountain and with little blod trail to follow. That bullet was to hard for that impact speed at that distance, but would work well at a closer range.

If I could hunt elk again with a handgun I would use the 30-30 AI that Larry spoke of.I would choose a premium bullet Like the Barnes X or triple X or the like and choose a middle weight bullet.I think that would work well for you in the recoil department as I think the 30-30AI is a relatively mild kicker for the level of performance given.

I also have a 309JDJ and a 358JDJ that would work but the recoil of those two rounds is a good bit heavier that the 30-30AI.

The 30-30AI is a good contender round and very versitle and quite often overlooked.

Shortgun

Shortgun,
How much faster is your 309JDJ with a 150 grain bullet?
Is your barrel length also 14 inches?
I used to know at one time, but what is the velocity performance spread for the Barnes "X" 130 and 150 grain bullets?
Another note on the NBT's when the velocity gets below a certain level they have a tendency to squirt their jackets.

Ernie

I have a 30-30 AI and although I love it dearly and am extremely impressed with it, I think its too small for elk.....My minimum elk gun in a Contender is a 30-40 Krag with 165 gr failsafe bullets..... With an Encore I use 30-06....

Maybe I don't load the 30-30 AI up far enough ....I normally shoot 150 grain Nos BTs in it and they are not nearly a tough enough bullet for elk...

The 30-30 AI is a mulie getter though, no doubt..

John

Ernie

My 309 is a rechamber of an old 30-30 factory barrel...the barrel as a 30-30 was extremly accurate but slow..I could never get above 1950 with 150 as it was so I had JD rechamber it to 309 to pick up the performance. And it is still a slow brrel and will not reach the speeds of a costom barrel, even when using top loads. As such it is not faster than my 30-30 AI. Actually it is about 25 fps slower than the AI barrel accross the board with 150 and under bullet weights.

The 309 is slightly more accurate than the 30-30AI barrel. With 165 and bigger bullets the 309 beats the 30-30AI.

The best thing about the 30-30AI for me os the reduction of muzzle blast and recoil.
The 309 uses 51.5 gr of Imr4350 to get 2336fps from a 150 and the 30-30AI used 36.5 gr of Imr3031 to get 2369fps.

The fellow who started this thread was looking for something that would work on elk but not be abusive in the recoil department..that is why I suggested the 30-30AI. I feel that if the 35 Remington worked for me the 30-30AI was certainly enough gun. I have several friends who have used it successfully for many years on elk.

I als have a friend who claims 2500 fps for 150 NBT's in the 309jdj but I can't do it in my barrel. His is a custom tube and is 16 inches long I believe.
My 358jdj will do 2480 with 180 class bullets and is perhaps better elk medicine, but the recoil is much greater than either the 30-30AI or the 309jdj.
I have had a 300 savage barrel and it would not do what my 30-30AI will. The AI is probably one of the most versatile of the contender chamberings in my thinking.

My barrel is 14 inches and I have never used the triple x in it yet...they are a little costly for general use but would be a consideration if going after elk...provided they were accurate enough. The grand Slam would be another consideration as would the Rem corelokt as I have had good luck with those bullets. I have never had the low velocity jacket squirting problem you refered to.
My longest shot with a NBT was with a 120 in a 7-30 waters at 264 yards on a antelope and I had complete pass through...dropped her in her tracks.

shortgun

[ 09-20-2003, 19:47: Message edited by: shortgun ]

shortgun,
Barrels make a difference, don't they? Thanks for the info on your two barrels. That is where the use of a chronograph can make a difference. That way you can know for sure what your loads are doing--no doubts or guessing.

Ernie

You may want to consider the 8mm JDJ....recoil isn't horrible, the round is very flat shooting, and it hits hard out to 200 yards (I've taken 1 elk, 2 deer, and a hog with this cartridge).

Lee Martin
www.singleactions.com