OK - it's debate time !

I shoot a .32H&R magnum for Field Pistol. I went into this with the understanding that it is critical to keep your bullet subsonic as it contributes SIGNIFICANTLY to accuracy.

Well, I made my loads subsonic, got good groups and figured everyone was right. Then, while experimenting with different powders, I got some supersonic loads that were VERY accurate.

NOW - for my Big Bore 7mm TCU, subsonic is out of the question, but for FP . . .

SO - shooting at a target at a max of 100 meters, is it really that critical to use a subsonic round? Does it have more of an effect at longer distances? Is it really that important at this distance?

I should add - I am using a 100 gr, SWC, hard cast bullet mainly, but am also experimenting with 110 gr. FMJ-HP, 110 gr. FMJ-RN and 123 gr. FMJ-SP bullets.

LET THE DEBATE BEGIN !

Thanks gentlemen !

[ 07-10-2002, 22:30: Message edited by: Dino32HR ]

Hello Dino,

Accuracy-wise, I think the key is keeping it one or the other - try to avoid "transonic", or going from supersonic to subsonic on the way to the target. Some bullets may do some strange things when they go from super to subsonic, and I think that long/skinny rifle bullets are "worse" than short/fat pistol bullets.

Hope it helps,

Bill

Dino, I have to agree with Bill's answer, The transonic is what gets you into trouble. I guess you are using a .308 bullet?? I believe that you would have better luck with the heavier bullets when trying to go subsonic. There are several sources for some load data on heavy bullets in the 32 mag. I have been shooting a 30-20 for a while, somewhat similar to your 32 mag. I can get it to do as good as my 300x221 with a little less work.
I have not shot FP with this caliber but have done some practice, the smaller bullets will work fine but my barrel seems to prefer at least a 150 grain, with the 180's being the heaviest that it would stabilize at subsonic. I shoot a 30-30 type bullet on chickens and pigs. On turkeys and rams I like a 180BT, I have used 165's with no problem but it is real slowwwww and just pushes the rams over. I have a few sources on some heavy loads in the 32 mag if you would like, I will look for the info.
Jeff

JSR,
Please post any loads you have for the heavier bullets, as I am aware that there are a few of us searching.
I am using my 32 mag this weekend for the first time in IHMSA BB standing. Usually only my FP gun.
I am shooting the RCBS 165 gr (weiging 170 sans GC & lube), 9.5 gr ADI 2205 (H4227 equiv). Not sure of what velocity this load generates, but initial accuracy testing is looking hopeful, but the rams will be interesting. Peter.

Dino, how do the .311's shoot? I have heard that there were some different bore diameters on some of the early barrels, I have checked some octagon barrel bores and they were .308? Although Mike B says that some of the TC bores are choked or over sized I can't complain about my 30-20 with some 180 BT's, might just be lucky. But I have seen a 32 mag that wouldn't shoot the .308's at all.
My 30-20 dies are LEE that do not have an expander ball, just neck sizes and deprimes. I made a statment a while back about how well my brass was lasting, well I jinxed myself. I have a batch of 150 that have been reloaded twelve times and am starting to lose a couple every time now.
Guess I will have to start a new batch.
Jeff

Jeff,

The .311's shoot like a dream. Actually, MOST bullets and powder combo's I put through this barrel are good to excellent. It's amazing - this newer T/C 10" seems to eat most things quite well. I've only had 2 really inaccurate combo's. I got 1/2" groups at 25 yds with the .308's with the first test load ! (and that's without a scope!) The .311's gave me the same 1/2" with one group of five and 1" with the other but at only 640 & 665 fps. I'm looking to boost-up the fps a bit. The first time I only loaded 10 (2 different powder weights) and shot them at 25 yards. This weekend I hope to shoot and I've got enough tests to go out to 100 yds and see what kind of "ultimate" group I'll get with the 311's.

My bread and butter load is the 100 gr. hard-cast SWC (Magnus # 205) with 3.0 grains of Titegroup under it. I'm trying out AA2 & AA5 with the 4 different bullets. I've got so many different loads working - including a 7mm TCU I'm trying to zero-in! I think I need to scale-back and finalize one or two and then move on. At this rate I'll get done when the damn IHMSA season is over !!

Later, gotta go load some !

How's your aim?...

Seriously, I think that the tables would be close enough?

Good shootin',

Bill

Dino,

Assuming that you are talking about a .308 110 JSP/JHP/FMJ, and looking at some trajectory tables, you probably need a muzzle velocity of around 1400 fps to stay supersonic (barely) at 100 yards. At that speed, looks like they are losing about 200 fps/100 yards.

Bill

Scale back, whatcha talk'n about?? I figure that sooner or later I will find the perfect combo with all the misses shot out of it, hope it's not to soon though!!
When I first started playing with my 7 TCU ( a few thousand rounds ago) I tried to push it a little to hard. I went back to some of the very first loads I used for fire forming, most of them shot pretty well. I went up and down a few grains, but never went over 1.5 grains above a fire forming load, this was well below a max load. The barrel won't shoot 1/2" groups at a hundred but will stay right around 1 1/2" if I do my part. To be right up front I don't think this barrel is capable of much smaller groups, and stay consistant. When I say this barrel I mean mine some one else may do better with theirs.
I still have a batch of brass that is "match" preped to the best of my knowledge that I try somthing new with.
If you find a load that shoots "GOOD" use it for your matches, this way you have a decent load to use and then you can "tweak" the rest of it, ie OAL, primer, brass, etc.
Somthing else that I have started to fine tune my loads and still shoot is designate a batch of brass to shootoff targets, I am sure you have seen some of the targets you can end up with.
On my 7 TCU shootoff loads I just went to a lighter bullet in a match type, I figure every little bit will help, and the lighter bullet will recoil less.
Hope this may help. But the main thing is practice and just plain shoot.
Jeff

Dino,

Fired the 32Mag in BB standing last weekend.
RCBS 165 gr GC, 9 grains of ADI2205 (H4227 equiv), Lee tumble lubed, WW SR primers.
All(4) of the rams I hit fell. I was amazed at the very little difference in the sight settings from the chickens to the rams,10 clicks as I recall, although this may be more a reflection of the coarse TC sights.
I will persist with this load for our "Winter Series" shoots (4x40 shot matches over the next two weekends, and see if I can improve on my grading. Sure is a sweet little round, although very strange looking with most of the projectile way out front.
Kind regards,Peter.