The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Single Shot Pistols Re: A Steel and Walnut Gun Fondler's Pride & Joy :-)Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Re: A Steel and Walnut Gun Fondler's Pride & Joy :-) | Login/Join |
one of us |
Please accept my humble apology!  I jumped to a wrongful conclusion! Sorry about that! Welcome aboard! | ||
|
one of us |
Quote: Actually, there is a lot one can say about the 357mag. I have used it in times past from other platforms to take whitetail deer, and had no troubles doing so. Such experienced writers as Paco Kelly certainly have a lot to say to testify to the 357mag's continuing use, and, while not a dangerous game cartridge for me, it neatly fills in as an open sighted deer stand damage control pistol for our soft bodied eastern whitetail. In his article, �357Magnum & Heavy Slogs� Paco states: �There is no contest, the 38spc./357 magnum cartridges and caliber are #1 in America today, and have been for decades...and decades ....and....more. And they are extremely popular in other countries as well. But I feel because of the inordinate focus of the shooting world today on the megamagnums and extraordinary handgun power...the 357 magnum has been unfairly relegated to position of a substandard handgun hunting round.� And he goes on to say: �As I and a number of knowledgeable friends are prone to say...there are better handgun calibers and cartridges to hunt with....certainly the 40 calibers are deadly on large game. But where I differ is...there are good reasons for the use of the 357 on the same game. Many folks just can not handle the big 44s and 454s...yet will practice and shoot the 357s with accuracy and deadly intent. Over 150 yards for me tops...the 357 is a flat shooter. I will shoot at much longer distances but at non living objects....you can practice more with the 357 without the wrist and hand going bad...and the flinches taking over. Folks don�t fear the recoil so they don�t pull their shots in the field....and as I said...I have killed many large animals with our first magnum and not found it wanting. Just because there are better calibers doesn�t mean the 357 is a poor cousin...try it I think you will like it...remember heavy bullets for large game.� -Paco Kelly, �357Magnum & Heavy Slogs� which can be read here: The 357 MAGNUM & HEAVY SLUGS I tend to agree. The 50AE's and 44mags will always have their place in my battery, but there is something to be said for an enjoyable open sighted whitetail hunt done with a T/C single shot and our first magnum. As to your "real test" comment, that depends upon what you mean....the real test of the ammo and equipement is exactly as I have offered, which is done by eliminating the human equation as much as possible by benching, resting, and scoping the pistol for controlled shooting. This is why my further and more serious load developement will be done from the bench with the barrel also wearing a scope. Even though I intend to use it mostly as an open sighted shooter, by doing the load developement with a scoped and benched pistol, I will have the most clear cut, precise, and accurate knowledge and data of what the barrel and loads are capable of. What I can do offhand at 50 yards is no real test of the ammo and gun at all, but rather a very real test of my eyesight and personal offhand shooting skills. As a handgun hunter who has been hunting game with handguns for 14 years, I already have a fairly good notion of my own abilities with open sights offhand in field conditions. The accuracy of this particular pistol may extend that range slightly; we shall see. Prematurely introducing the human equation into the picture at this early stage would simply skew the load developement and test of inherant barrel accuracy by adding less than ideal conditions to the mix. So, by approaching load developement and accuracy testing this way, if I happen to shoot a lousy group offhand afterwards, I will know that I already HAVE accurate loads and a gun capable of much more, and the size of the off hand open sighred groups will be attrbutable to no other factors than my own abilities, or lack thereof, or my "bad day" at the range as an offhand open sighted shooter.  The REAL and proper place for such offhand shooting tests and practice is in determining my own field conditions capabilites with the load and gun so as to correctly judge my own comfortable range in killing game with that particular gun and load using open sights in field conditions, which is more a test of me, and less so the equipement. | |||
|
| one of us |
Quote: Jules, LOL! Not quite, but at least the Heretic made yet another constructive thing come from the incident, and a entertaining and accurate thing it is turning out to be | |||
|
| one of us |
I am not Graybeard and have nothing to do with his site. Jules maybe you remember me from the JD Jones incident with you and the Elite traditional Handgun Police thread some time ago. I asked a legitimate question and made a legitimate statement meaning nothing harmful to Sean in anyway. That you guys wanted to take it that way is ok by me. We see bench groups most of the time. I just wondered if any of you ever shoot off hand and wonder why you don't if you don't. Now we can get along or we can be as nasty as you want or as civil as you want let me know. | |||
|
| one of us |
Me_Plat, Greetings! BTW, I personally never accused you of being anyone but you Quote: Aye, when speaking of what the individual shooter can do with the gun, yes. As for the gun standing alone as a piece of equipement and it's inherent accuracy, that is a more narrow focus. I really agree with a lot of what you have said, with a few points of qualification and somewhat differing degrees of emphasis, and do not believe that we are really that far apart. A few points of qualification: I think the bench load and accuracy developement prior to field conditions practice, is absolutely essential in eliminating loads and equipment not up to the job. A grossly inaccurate barrel and/or load in anyone's hands is going to be grossly inaccurate, whether it is lowely me or someone as exceptionably capable with open sighted handguns as Lee Jurras. Knowing the load and equipement capabilities ahead of time is an essential part of my preparation for hunting season. Once I have equipement and loads that are exceptional in their own right in terms of accuracy and performance, THEN comes the time for what you are calling for in terms of determining practical accuracy, which is a combination of shooter, gun, ammo, with other minutia that interacts within the parameters of the main three elements that you mentioned. Preparation for hunting season that ignores this further and might I add, absolute necessity, of field conditions practice, is mostly done in futility. When you say: Quote: I would mostly agree, and simply add two points: 1, The 357mag is also a good cartridge for the shooter that like me, can and does handle something bigger, but sometimes likes the economy, variety, and nostalgia in cartridges such as the 357mag, and 2, I have taken medium game including whitetail deer with the 9mm out of my highly customized Glock 17 and also out of a Browning hi-power, and the real world performance on game [not just paper ballistics] between the 9mm properly loaded and the 357mag is not all that far apart, as they are both just 35 caliber punch presses, until we get beyond 147-158grn offerings and into the heavy slugs for the 357mag. THAT is where the 357 really starts to pull ahead and shine in terms of penetration and being an excellent open sighted stand gun for our soft bodied eastern whitetail | |||
|
| one of us |
Sean: But would you not say that what can be done with a handgun in a day in and out situation is what the combination of SHOOTER, AMMO, and GUN can do in every day situations not just in one exclusive circumstance? Would you not also say that practical accuracy is mostly a combination of shooter, gun, ammo, with other minutia that interacts within the confines of the main three that I mentioned. As I have posted on this forum and others including GB's that you guys accused me of being is that proper bench form is paramount to getting good results with any gun off the bench only and has no direct correlation to what one can do offhand or with makeshift rest such as field shooting. I can make the small groups off the bench too but I feel much more fulfilled when I shoot offhand and can do consistantly well when doing so. To me the bench is only to work up a load to the point that I know the gun and ammo will do well then I set out to shoot offhand and then to practice in a dilligent manner to improve on the art of holding, sight alignment, trigger squeeze, mental handling of recoil, and being able to read the light conditions and estimate the range at the time of the shot being readied and fired in the many situations found in the field. As to the 357 I have owned maybe 7 of them over the years including a couple Colt stainless King Cobras and like the guns very much. But the 357 is popular, easy on recoil, somewhat more economical to reload, accurate, has taken many types of large game, and comes in a wide array of gun types and is a good cartride for the shooter that can't handle something bigger and that is ok, but there are better cartridges out there when it comes to hunting. To me it is like the 9mm of the semi-automatic world. As long as it brings joy to you is what is important. My opinion is mine alone, be that good or bad, but I still wonder what some of the bench shooters can do offhand still yet. SHOOTER+AMMO+GUN=PRACTICAL ACCURACY Practical accuracy is what wins in most situations unless it is bench rest competion then it mostly becomes an equipment game once one splatters out on the bench. Sorry I bothered you with my original statement. I forgot how touchy most on these forums are. Me_Plat formally MePlat. (not GB, JDJ, GNR, MB,DW, the Bullberry guys, the VV guys, or anyone else that you think I am but fat me the fool) | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Single Shot Pistols Re: A Steel and Walnut Gun Fondler's Pride & Joy :-)
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia
GB is back