Anyone use this combo?
10" TCU so velocity will be limited as well as shooting distance.

I use that bullet in my 7-08, 16" Shilen bbl XP-100 for varmints and it's TOTALLY EXCELLENT for that purpose, but at these velos it's WAY to frangible for deer. It could be downloaded to just about any velo you want and might work, but I wouldn't use that bullet on deer...way too many other better 120 gr bullets available.

I don't understand your last sentence.

Good Hunting

The velocities obtained by a 7-08 in a 16" Hand rifle are far more than the 10" TCU so bullets that are far too soft in that gun may be fine in a Short barreled TCU.

Guess it is wet paper/water jug testing time.

NONAGONAGIN

Last sentence is my signature line, nothing to do with 7mm TCU post.

Essentially stating that something is easy to do if a person is not the one who has to do it.

I have used 270 110 grain VMax and Sierra 90 grain Varmiter HP in a 270 REN (22 Hornet case straight)rifle.
At about 1800-2000 fps they expand without coming apart. Carried chasing javelina.

Why is it people say a 7mm TCU is inadequate for deer but a 300 Blackout is great?

M

My assumption that in the 10" TCU barrel the reduced velocity would allow the softer bullet to perform as "mildly expanding", rather than explosive as it might in a faster cartridge.

Fellow that used to shoot at a range where I shot used his 14 inch &mm TCU to hunt with (among others) and his furthermost TN deer kill was 225 yards.
He was a patient hunter, great shot, loaded for the utmost in accuracy, and was a pistol hunter.

You know the old saw..."ass/u/me" makes an "ASS" out of "U" and "ME".

The only way to know for CERTAIN how ANY bullet reacts is to actually do some reloading/shooting to see if/how any one bullet will upset, at what velocity, and how much...and not "assume" that how that bullet reacts will be the same as a similar but different brand. Besides I don't know how many deer and other critters I've taken with hard ball and FMJ bullets...they usually do the trick when I do my part.

I have a few T/C's in various barrel lengths and calibers and several other "short rifles" and have seen first hand what various bullets do AND DON'T DO in various media and critters...I pretty much DON'T believe the BS put out on so many forums and advertising...I've seen the actual results.

Here's another old saw..."One shot does NOT a group make" and one or two targets/tests/stories does not give statistically relevant data...

There's a whole lot of people out there that really DON'T know what's going on and DON'T know squat doodley...just how many deer/antelope/etc do you think have been taken with a 22 LR, not to mention a few dying cattle and half dead animals during/after the season. I fed a family on animals taken with a 22 LR back in the day as have MANY others.

How does it go..."It's NOT what you shot it with...it's WHERE you put the bullet".

Good Hunting

I have never used the 120 Vmax, but I use the 120BT from a 10" TCU, the only deer I killed with was around 135 yds the deer went around 55 yds and expire. No exit wound but inside was a mess. I had a chance to use the same bullet out a 708 out of a 10" barrel shot a deer 185 yds, deer travel less than 30 yds and expire.
Regards

Lou

Luis
Thank you for the information.
Did you get any velocity measurements on the TCU BT loading?

I may be wrong but I think I will get fairly low velocity on that barrel, would be really surprised if I can get up to 2,000 fps.
What powder did you use?

TC

Sorry, for not getting back to you I will have to look at the records to see the particulars about the load. I will check tonight and post.

TC,

According to my records the velocity is 2050 with IMR4198.

At Ft. Benning, GA some years ago, there was a
fad among handgun hunters to use 120 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips in 7BR-chambered pistols. (I'm guessing mostly XP100's.) Some also used 7TCU chambered Contenders. A friend who was involved closely with those folks reports that results on whitetail deer at the typical short ranges in GA woods were excellent.

I believe those were the earlier generation NBT's that was kind of famous for excess meat destruction in normal rifles. Thus, the excellent performance at reduced pistol velocities. I've no data, but have "heard" that since then, the NBT was made less violently destructive due to complaints of excessive meat loss.

Not very much "HARD" data there, due to the question of possible change in bullet design/construction, but plug that in with what you know about NBT's and their history, and it may be useful.

Hope this helps,
John

l run the 7mm 120 v-max at 29000ft/sec (not fast by any means) in my 7-08rem and get complete destruction of the bullet at 100yrds on fox.
l have also run tests with the same bullet at subsonic speeds (100yrds target) and the bullet failed to expand at all in the sand backstop having passed through 1/2" of plywood.
Although not conclusive, it may help with the understanding of impact velocitiy required on target to perform consistent kills on live game.

I still don't see where the argument is...the V-Max is a frangible bullet to kill by basically blowing up, it's isn't really a "meat getting" bullet.

There are many very excellent "meat getting" bullets...WHY bother with a varminting bullet when other much more effective bullets are available...unless you just want to blow a big crater in the poor animal or waste a lot of good eating, or to "win" some nebulous, questionable argument.

Good Hunting

quote:

Originally posted by NONAGONAGIN:
I still don't see where the argument is...the V-Max is a frangible bullet to kill by basically blowing up, it's isn't really a "meat getting" bullet.

There are many very excellent "meat getting" bullets...WHY bother with a varminting bullet when other much more effective bullets are available...unless you just want to blow a big crater in the poor animal or waste a lot of good eating, or to "win" some nebulous, questionable argument.

Good Hunting

------

Yes, it is frangible -- at typical RIFLE velocities. While it is not my normal bullet of choice, I can tell you that at 7 TCU speeds, it performs like a big game bullet and absolutely will not be "blowing up." I used it for a while in my 7mm Bullberry at 2630 fps MV and took a number of hogs and other game with it. I quit using it because of consistency issues. I ran into a couple lots in which the 120 grain V-Max -- at speeds below 2150-2200 fps at impact -- opened only minimally and thus caused very little tissue damage. (Some from these same lots even appeared to have brittle jackets in media testing.) Normally you'll get some soft tissue expansion down to 1850 fps with this one.

In fact, give Hornady a call. They consider the 120 grain V-Max to be the replacement for the long-discontinued 120 grain Single Shot Pistol bullet. I don't simply because the lead-tipped SSP was much more predictable and even a tad softer than the V-Max at lower impact velocities.

Anyway, what a bullet does at 2900 fps and what it does at 2000 fps can be world's apart in terms of terminal performance. Heck, when I shot an XP in 6mm-.223, I often used the Sierra 80 grain Blitz, which was a proverbial bomb at .243 speeds but expanded and penetrated nicely from my little wildcat.

As always...arguments/discussions/etc come with caveats to prove some point. I've been shooting V-Maxes in every caliber they come in since they first arrived and probably every bullet brand/type ever made since the late 58's and I've had/shot 7mm shooters from 7mm FB to 28 Nos to wildcats based on the 505 Gibbs case.

My argument still holds as far as I'm concerned. Right now I shoot the same 120 gr V-max load in my 22" 7-08 rifle, ~3050-3100, AND 16" XP 100, ~2800 fs, ...~300 fs difference in velocity and a slightly slower load at ~2500-2550 fs in my 14.5" NEF swap barrel. Coyotes gurgle when hit, sage rats do a purple haze or just come apart in big pieces with the slower loads and I STILL WON'T shoot a deer sized animal with a V-Max...I think it's unsporting. I've seen a few varminting type hollow/gummy bear tipped bullets blow a big chunk of meat out of the side of deer/antelope when a large bone is hit. There are much better bullets available for those animals and some of them don't do the perfect upset all the time.

You are free to do what you like...way too many people already do that and I think it's appalling every time I see a deer corpse with that kind of wound and the hunter didn't bother to do the right thing and follow up on their ****-up.

Good Hunting

You wrote: "sage rats do a purple haze or just come apart in big pieces "


While your generalized argument holds some merit, your concept of ballistics/terminal performance is a bit flawed. A .30 cal FMJ will do the exact thing to something as small as a sage rat. So will a 125 grain ACCUBOND from my 24" .300 Savage or even my 30-30. Here is just one example: after a flash flood in '97 wiped us out, there was an old building that was badly damaged but still somewhat upright. Squirrels decided to call it home. One day, I was forming brass for my .30 Herrett and using a 150 grain Sierra GK at a fraction over 1800 fps -- and we all know that bullet is not frangible at those speeds and will hardly expand at all -- if any. To make a long story short, the squirrel appeared at the base of the old barn and presented a perfectly-safe 90 yard shot, so I took a rest and fired one off. For 16-18 feet inside the building, there was blood, tissue and some actual parts strewn about, including splatter on the rear wall. It looked like the squirrel swallowed a grenade, but in actuality, it was just overmatched by a slow-moving 150 grain projectile.

I'd never use an inappropriate bullet for game, but I also do understand what does and doesn't work at specific levels and choose my projectiles accordingly. I take bullet selection seriously and have thoroughly tested every type I use, both in personally-developed medium and via actual kills. I follow virtually every bullet path through game so that I know exactly what it was doing and how it performed under varying circumstances.

I don't want to sound boastful, but I can proudly say that in several hundred kills of big game animals and at least a couple hundred or more large varmints (coyotes/cats), I have never, ever lost an animal that was hit. And I don't intend for that to change, either. I am selective about my shots, extremely critical of my gear (particularly optics) and quite picky when it comes to bullet performance. That combination has yet to let me down.

Thank you Bobby.
I knew there was someone that would answer the explicit question I asked.
Had a much longer answer with some curtness thrown in, but goofed up posting it.
Once again, thank you for answering the question I asked!