I was wondering if anyone has tried this combo? I ran a 357 max case through a 30 Herret sizer, looks pretty interesting. I'm thinking this may offer the mostest with the leastest for a 10" tube. I know of at least one guy pushing 120's 2100 fps from a 10" 300 whisper, so figure the larger case just might be good for another 100 fps. I'm also thinking about the best one can expect from a 10" tube is 120gr/2200 fps. I know the Herret can do it, but figure the 357 max case w/ small primer should be a more accurate round. Then again, for the trouble and expense of the wildcat, one could pickup a used 30 herret for alot less.

Anyhow, another musings thread. I have a pic of the dummy next to a 30 Herret, but haven't found a free posting website that hasn't been banned by the co firewall.

Paul,

Here are some links over at Shooters, looks like the steel boys have tried everything. You are talking about a 30 Max. Jim Rock developed it for Steel shooting. Has all the info on it and load data. A 30 Paxton is built on the 357 MAG case.

These guys fiddle around with reamers to beat the band.

http://talk.shooters.com/room_67/221.cfm

http://talk.shooters.com/room_29/785.cfm

http://talk.shooters.com/room_29/770.cfm

http://talk.shooters.com/room_29/770.cfm

http://talk.shooters.com/room_29/866.cfm

Regards

[ 08-06-2002, 07:03: Message edited by: Headstamp ]

Headstamp...now you got me very interested,,can you post a pic ?? to my e-mail ??
buckweet....

BW,

Don't have a pic, that was Paul.

I believe there is an address for Jim Rock in one of the posts linked above. Also try the Google search engine.

He will know the particulars much better than I.

Regards

http://members.tripod.com/~RPMXL/

RPM Pistols/Jim Rock

Wrote a long treatise about this last night and the site ate it up and did not post it.
30 Max is a design by Jim Rock (correct me if I am wrong on this) or at least chambered by Rock in the RPM pistol.
The dies were available from him for 47 bucks or so and will be more now depending on what they have gone up since I bought mine!

Imagine a overly long 30X221 rimmed with a sharp shoulder and about a 0.25" case neck.

It seems like it could/would/should "outperform" the Herrett or 30X221 and it is simple to form with pass thru the 30 Max die in one step to make brass.
I will try to find one I have formed or make one tonight and if someone will give me a site to upload the picture will post it or just email it to interested parties.

Should be a way to improve bad chamber/lead of a 30-20, 30 carbine, or 32 Mag factory barrel.
Start from scratch from some gunsmith who is going to be a ready supplier of new custom barres in the near future.
LouisB

All just opinions and wild suppositions on my part of course!

Thanks Louis,

Yes, I believe RPM stands for Rock Pistol Manufacturing. Think he has a 270 Max also. The 30 based on the 225 Winchester case is the 30 Merrill after the Merrill single-shot pistol.

What kind of velocities did you get with what bullet weights in what barrel length with the 30 Max?

Yeah, the site was really farting out last night. Must have been heavy traffic here.

Wish it didn't eat your post.

Regards

[ 08-07-2002, 04:51: Message edited by: Headstamp ]

Paul H. did what you did, ran a .357 max case up into my .30 herrett dies,, neat looking cartridge,,
even seated a spitzer bullet,,
i hope someday, someone will chamber a t/c barrel for this cartridge.
buckweet

I am sure Bullberry or VVCG will chamber the 30 Max. I know EABCO will since I have competed against a BF in that chambering.
Regards,
Mike

Well It is a long story. Started in a trade of some Martini Cadet parts and getting a Francotte complete rifle built by the traders deceased gunsmith/competitive/Schutzen shooting buddy.

It came with several cases that had started their lives as 357 Max. Trader had NO idea how the guy formed the cases or any loading data. He just knew that the barrel was made from a bolt gun match 308 (7.62X51) barrel with the throat shot out!

A little consternation (ok, a LOT) and I finally set it back on the shelf to languish for several years.
Finally started a search for the dies with asking about the cartridge nomenclature on the net.
I roughly described it without measurements and was told the chamber was likely a 30 Max or 30X357 Max and dies were available from Jim Rock at RPM. A couple of phone calls and the dies were on the way.
Yahoo, they came in the mail and I was ready to load some ammo and walk out in the yard and test a few rounds.
Lo and behold I ran that first Max case in the die and out came a new cartridge case unlike anything I had ever seen . . .including the cases that came with the gun! A call to Rock describing the difference and he was sure what I had was something different, but had NO idea what (at this point it was Stevie Wonder leading Ray Charles)
Called one of the smaller west cost reamer companies and asked about a reamer to match the 30 Max. Only a hundred bucks for the custom reamer, but then a bit pricey for the one rechamber job.

BACK ON THE SHELF FOR ANOTHER YEAR.

Finally got someone in Rec. Guns who said it sounded like a 30 Max run into a 300X221 die or rimmed 300X221 rimmed.
Ok, I have it now, ordered a set of 300X221 dies and the very evening they came in, I rammed a 357 Max up into the die and pulled out a case that looked exactly like the ones in my possession for the last 5-8 years.
I placed it in the chamber and shoved it home . . . well almost home, it would not chamber!
Wait a minute the shoulder is just where it should be . . . what gives?
Finally extracted my head from where it had been all this time and broke out the dial calipers.
Oh, it was a bit too long.
A little trimming and after only 8 years or so I chambered my first round of 300X221 long neck rimmed.
I shot a few with increasing whisper loads and only matched whisper performance with split necks on about 80 percent of the cases. There really wasn't any fireforming and they shot well enough so I carried it on a couple of quick local deer hunts.
Shot the rest of the brass I had formed with heavy cast bullets and with all those split necks I decided to wait until I got more Max brass and would anneal it before forming.

Back on the shelf for 2 years and I have some Max brass enroute as I type.

Still think the TRUE 30 Max 30X357 Max would be a player in the lower powered 30 caliber loadings in the Contender with none of the trimming hassle of the Herrett.
With three 30 Herrett barrels it would really be hard for me to justify, but
SINCE WHEN WAS IT DIFFICULT TO JUSTIFY BUYING JUST ONE MORE Contender BARREL ( ok, maybe a 10" and 14 " just for testing purposes).
Stepping down from soap box!
LouisB
Just a bunch of opinions of course

If your interested:
The 30 Bellm is a facory loaded cartridge. A 1.4" case length, 444 Marlin brass parent case. My 13" barrel gives 2250 fps with the 130 gr. Hornady bullet. Mike Bellm designed it to meet IL deer hunting requirements. CNC Cartridge sells the loaded ammo and brass. A bit more case capacity than a 30 Herret or 300/221. The brass is pricey but available. See Mike's web site for more info.

Greg

You guys might give Mike B. a holler. I remember that he offered this a few years ago, rimmed 300x221= 30x357max. Same load data as the 300x221 I THINK??
I have TC's 300x221, don't like it. On the other hand I have a 30-20 that will do what the whisper does with out the pain in the a$$ of brass prep. I know I will catch some flack from this but I just wasn't impressed with it. Then again the 30-20 was the first rimmed cartridge I ever had, EASY is all I can say.
The 30 max, or 30x357 max would be interesting, but will it do any more than the whisper other than being rimmed? Case volume and brass cost, the max brass couldn't be any harder to find than the .221 is at times. Although now I use .222 and .223 most of the time.
Jeff

The rimmed .300/.221 is NOT the same as the .30/.357 Max. It is more correctly a .30/.360DW, as the parent case would be the .360 DW - only minor trimming is required. But you will be required to anneal before forming it as the .360DW brass is very hard and will develope lengthwise cracks below the shoulder when you run it through the .30/.221 dies (don't ask me why it doesn't seem to crack the necks).

TCLouis ?? Stevie Wonder leading Ray Charles ??
somebody's going to fall in a pitt !!
lol
Buckweet

Here is a link to the other 5.6X50 R thread. Mike posted there about the possibilities with .375 case diameters at the end of the thread. Interesting:
http://www.serveroptions.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=35;t=000651

Rob, I agree with you on the case cracks. I've had the same thing with Max brass below the shoulder and had to carefully anneal the cases there to prevent them.

Regards

Headstamp...thank's...
just kinda getting a itch ?? 30x.357max
just thinking...
it shure is a neat looking cartridge.
buckweet

Rob, how long has the 360 DW been around? I am pretty sure this was pre 360 DW ? I think this list and price sheet I had of Mikes was just about the time the 300 whisper info was coming out, early to mid 80's?
I am all most certain it was some of Mikes info, will see if I can find it.
Jeff

Since moving here, I have seen the bag with .357 Max. cases necked down to .30 in the Whisper die, which means I can probably turn them up if you want a sample case to drool and slobber over.

I should also have data worked up by a fellow in Denver circa 1996-97 when I was doing quite a few shows there.

Interesting cartridge, yes. I had thought the full length case would be a bit faster than the data he presented, but it was respectable enough.

TC Heretic