Does any use or have tried the Nosler 260 gr Ballistic Tip in their 375 JDJ? I am looking for load data.

Thanks,

Bill

JD says don't use it! See my response to your post in handgun hunting....

Bill I do not know about the 375JDJ and 260 Nosler BT but I use it in my 375 JRS 16" Competitor pistol I can push it at 2600 FPS and in a water test at 100 YDS the bullet Work fine

I'm hoping Rob will post, he tried them on a Musk ox this past winter out of his 375 JDJ, and was very unhappy with the results. He had to shoot it 5 times, some bullets shed their cores, and by and large, the expansion was insuficient, and unreliable.

They may be .375's but they're still balistic tips. Designed for plains game and the like? Musk Ox is asking a lot from them I think.

Musc ox aren't as big or tough as some may think. I believe Rob's was ~ 500 #'s. From the way he described the bullets performance, they need to impact at a higher velocity. Sounds like unless they are hitting at 2000 fps or higher, they will not reliably expand.

These bullets will not expand reliably at the velocities possible with the .375 JDJ. This is a substantial bullet designed to withstand starting velocities possible in the .375 H&H, .375 RUM, etc. and still retain ample integrity to penetrate sufficiently on larger game like elk. It WILL NOT expand down to 1600 fps as most BTs will do.

I've wanted to try some of these in my 375H/S... going on my experiance with Balistic Tips, it should make some spooky accurate loads for it.

Oh if only I cared enough to reload or go shoot.... oooh boo hoo......

Not sure it is exactly an expansion problem. More properly I would call it the result of low velocities coupled with the tendency of a typical boattail to squirt its core. If these bullets were bonded like the Swift Scirroco I would use them in a heartbeat.

The 260 NBTs expanded back about halfway which is more than enough. But because of expanding no further, when they shed their cores, they parachuted backwards through the animal acting like an fmj. I believe that if they had stuck together the performance would have been more than acceptable. I have attached the photo of the bullets recovered that I posted before. Three that were recovered made it to the far side of the musk ox, the two of them I didn't find did not exit and were in the body cavity somewhere. At 20 below I didn't spend a lot of time looking.

As for the musk ox, they aren't real big, maybe close to 600# (200# of boned meat, 117# of hide and skull as weighed at the airport). But in this case my first shot was high above the lungs (a B&L 2-6X is tough to see through prone in the snow - too much eye relief needed). So he had his adrenaline up. After two more through the lungs he went down, then got back up, another put him down again, but a final one was required to keep him from getting up again. So at least when they have their dander up they are hard to kill. I don't care how well a bullet expands, 4 through the lungs has got to be tough to take. From the final result, dead musk ox, the performance was ok, but their are bullets for the .375 JDJ that will do a lot better job IMHO.

Perhaps my experience was different than most. This was more properly designated a .375X444, as it was a rechamber. My personal theory is that equal land/groove barrels stress the bullet more and make their performance more expansive, so a .375 JDJ on a Shilen blank may give less expansion and perhaps tend to squirt the core less than was my experience. Would like to hear from someone else that has tried this bullet, but so far I am the only one who has actually used it on game at handgun velocities (1950 fps on Paul H's chrono).

Here is photo:

http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/RobR/260NBT.jpg

i seem to remember jjhack talking about using these and really liking them. i dont know if he posts here or not ,i know he posts on jessies hunting page.being a professional hunter in africa and avid hunter in the states he would proably have some good input on this.eric

I think you're mistaken, Jim's used the 260 gr partition in his 375 JDJ. He does post on the Africa board on occasion.

When RichJake and I were playing around with the 125 and 150gr .30 cal Balistic tips in expansion media, we seemed to find that the SLOWER bullets were more likely to "squirt" their cores, than the fast ones. I guess the faster bellets were getting "smooshed" together better.
Judging by your pictures, that sure seemed to be the problem. Light weight jacket stops... heavy core keeps going.

Was it a female?

[ 09-20-2002, 01:23: Message edited by: cas ]

[ 09-21-2002, 01:42: Message edited by: cas ]

Cas-
I don't think you really understand the Ballistic Tip. Section one and you'll see that it does NOT have a light jacket (except in varmint weight bullets). And the 260 grain BT is a substantial bullet.

Bobby... Did you look at his picture? There's not THAT much expansion really.... yet it suirted out the cores. They didn't blow up.
Yes I've cut up many in different weights and calibers. I've also shot them into all sorts of stuff.... the slow ones are the ones that squirt the cores out. like that. Look at the picture and see how much of the shank of the bullet is left. Quite a bit. The shank is much thinner, because Noslar made the base of the jacket very thick so when it got pushed at 375H&H speeds it would hold up to a violent mushroom. But... it still wont hold the core when it impacts going too slow.

[ 09-20-2002, 02:48: Message edited by: cas ]

Cas-
Yes, many boat-tailed bullets are prone to do that under certain types of impact and are especially vulnerable when there is insufficient expansion and the bullet tends to "slide" from heavier impact on one side than the other. It is not necessarily caused by low velocity impact.

But this bullet is not at fault. It was simply used for a task that it was not designed for.

First let me thank all of you for your imput. I knew this was the place to post for answers. Well done gentlemen!

I actually have a 378GNR not a 375JDJ. I knew that there would be more data on that one here.
I also remembered seeing a post here on the 260 NBT's but couldn't find it. I plan on using it for deer/black bear, nothing too big.

With the 378GNR, I'm very confident I'll get the velocity needed.I don't expect deep penetration and want the bullet to give up all its energy in the critter....no pass thru.

I have a question for Rob though. I don't want to be disrespectful. Did you work your loads up in -20� weather? Is the 1950 fps the velocity at that temp? Just curious. Not being a smarta**.
Thanks
Bill

[ 09-20-2002, 06:34: Message edited by: pahandgunhunter ]

Do you have any chronograph data on the 378 GNR? How is the recoil and do you have a brake on it?

Thanks,

Grey Eagle

Well, I live in Anchorage, and I worked up the loads in early February. It wasn't -20, but it wasn't over 20 either. Since I was using Varget, a Hornady Extreme powder, I would expect that my velocity was very close to what they chrono'd at the range.

Bobby, as for NBT bullets squirting cores, that has been my experience with my 7X30 Waters and my .309 JDJ, as well. Are NBTs not designed for TC velocities? They were effective in both the 7X30 and the .309, even though core separation occurred regularly.

Greyeagle,

I am headed to range Sat am will post results then.

Rob, I was just curious about the temperature and Varget is an outstanding powder in that regard. I wasn't questioning your competency.

I had a buddy when he first started out reloading work up 223 loads in the cold (Dec/Jan) and wondered why in August his bolt wouldn't open. duh!

Thanks again for all your help guys. Will post my results for those interested.
Bill

Rob,

Which BT were you using the 7-30 Waters? Bet you can guess why I'm asking the question.

I've been shooting the factory 120 Nosler without problems and have accumulated brass in that way. Decided that so many liked the 140 grain BT that I'd go for that. Now

Thanks!

Rob-
I have rarely seen a Nosler BT squirt a core, and I shoots lots of them -- and run many expansion tests as well. Generally, the most guilty parties as to squirting cores are the Hornady 7mm 139 grain BTSP and the Speer 130 grain BTSP, also in 7mm. I work with various bore diameters, but for some reason, these 2 7mms are the ones that occasionally exhibit this phenomenon.

One thing to ponder, though: I hunt in relatively warm temperatures compared to what you encounter, and metal does exhibit exaggerated brittleness under extreme conditions. I'm grasping for straws here, but when you see the BTs squirt the cores, is it in harsh weather?

ALso, the BTs have a wide latitude when it comes to an expansion window, and most of the hunting BTs will open up reliably down to around 1650 fps (pretty close to the Nosler claim of 1600 fps).

I use them a lot in everything up to and including .30 cal and burn a few of the .30+ calibers as well, just not as many as with the smaller calibers. I have a good deal of them recovered from both test medium and game, and while they do lose some weight, I just don't see any of the "core squirting" on anything that could be considered a regular basis.

Bobby
I have done the testing with Cas. The weather wasn't harsh when we did the testing either. The Noslers spit out their core regularly enough that I called Nosler about it. They said my testing mediea was too hard.It won't happen on game.

I don't agree. I have s also recovered the Balistic Tip from two Deer both had jacket & core seperation.

The most recent was a Comb Tech 150 Gr Balistic Silver Tip from Nosler/Winchester it spit out the core as well. It was a 40-50 yard shot out of 308 Winchester @ 2750 Fps. The bullet entered between the ribs hit the spine & traveled to the rear of the deer. The jacket was recovered in the rear hind on the same side of entry. The animal dropped in it's tracks. So the idea of sepertion didn't bother me too much. I felt it did the job.

The results however has me trying the Hornandy SST's which has a ring in the jacket to hold the core in the jacket. These bullets are very accurate. I have noticed that this bullet is necessary to seat them deeper than Noslers. I have not yet had a chance to test them in any testing media.
Rich Jake

OK, Bobby. Let see. Found the lead from the cup of a 165 .30 NBT at 2250 fps on a black bear shot facing me at 30 feet. Didn't find the jacket at all, in guts somewhere no doubt. This was with in temps in the 60s. Once shot a moose in the front shoulder with the same bullet - didn't penetrate the scapula - didn't find anything but pieces of jacket and lead. This was at about 50 degrees. Did get pass throughs on a broadside caribou with it though - it was in the high 60s on that day.

Found the jacket and not lead in hind quarter of a blacktail shot angling towards me - a 140 NBT in my 7X30 Waters (2200 fps +/-). Had this bullet literally explode on a raking shot on another blactail at about 200 yards - entrance wound left a large hole about 5" in diameter - portions of three ribs were gone. Also got a couple of pass throughs on broadside shots on deer with this bullet also. All these experiences were at about 30 degrees.

These are about all my experiences with the NBTs I can think of except the musk ox. My only theory is that all these were in equal land and groove design barrels.

You getting to hunt exotics in Texas should give you the edge in experience - I am lucky if I shoot two or three game animals a year here. Maybe I am just not having good luck. I would note that while I have had several pass throughs on black bears with the 270 Hornaday in my .375 JDJ, the one bullet I did recover from a moose had shed its jacket though the core and jacket were right next to each other. The lead in that Hornaday bullet is hard from what I could tell.

Hey guys;

Been reading your post on the Nosler 260 BT in the 375 JDJ.

I have a 375 JDJ and a 375/06JDJ and bought some for the 375/06JDJ,the Hornady in 220 and 270gr do great in my 375JDJ.

But wanted to try them in the 375/06JDJ,called JD about them because in the SIXGUNNER he said that he was going to test them in the 375/06JDJ and tell what he found.But he never did so I called he said that 270gr Hornadys do such a great job that he was not going to test them anymore.

I bought two boxes and load up a few loads and was getting ready to shot them,but have had problems with the scope moving and it was still moving so I called SSK and shipped the barrel back for a 1/4 rib 6 screw scope mount.

So if any of you are shooting these bullets in the 375/06JDJ let me know how you are doing and the loads you have worked up.And when I get the barrel I will post my results.

Wade

Rob-
Your theory of the type of rifling may be hitting the nail on the head.If the rifling indeed scores the jacket on a bullet like the BT more than normal, the integrity could certainly be jeopardized.

Yes, having all the exotics in Texas is nice. The prices on "culls" are generally pretty low, and that's perfect for me as I don't hunt for the record book; I hunt for enjoyment.

But what has been giving me "free" or very inexpensive opportunities are the wild hogs that have become quite heavily populated in most regions of the state. I've taken them with a bit of everything, but my favorites are the 6.5s (rifles) with 140 grain bullets. And while they are not what I'd recommend for a hog, I have used the BTs a few times. Once, while on a "meat" hunt for a 150 pounder I saw previously, I ran into a large boar with terrific cutters. I had a Rem 700 Classic 6.5x55 with the 120 grain BT at 2900 fps. The bullet took the 200+ pound animal at 110 yards on a quartering shot. It broke the shoulder, wrecked the lungs and took out a chunk of liver before leaving a 2" exit near the last rib. But the bullet didn't exit (secondary bone fragments did, apparently). It was found under the hide near the exit. It was completely mushroomed, but the core & jacket were intact, and it still weighed 72 grains. It wouldn't be my bullet of choice for big hogs, but in this situation, it certainly worked quite well. I used the same bullet in a custom XP in 6.5x.308 (MV 2693 fps) to take a 175-pound hog at 140 yards and got a complete pass through (lung shot). And I've even taken some with a 10" 6.5 TCU (again, not the best choice) when it happened to be the only thing I had or the 1st thing I could get to. ANd, I happen to remember the info on at least 2 of these: Both hogs were in the 180 pound range, and one was taken with a 120 grain BT and the other with a Rem 120 grain PSP-CL. Range in both situations was close, maybe 60 yards at most, and the MV: 2040 fps with the BT and 2021 fps with the Rem.

The BT entered behind the shoulder and lodged behind the opposite shoulder after busting through it. Weight: 93 grains. The Rem hit the onside shoulder (if the truth be known, I meant to shoot it behind the shoulder), damaged the lungs and came to rest under the hide on the far side. Weight: 90 grains.

All the deer and exotics that I've taken with BTs indicated excellent performance. I had one incident app. 10 years ago in which a Texas Dall ram had a 1.5-2" entrance wound, but I shot him in high wind when the grass and cactus was really whipping about. I figured the 100 grain BT from the .257 JDJ (around 2650 fps) must have impacted the grass in front of the ram's vitals. Nevertheless, it still had enough punch to exit. I don't know if it remained intact or not, but it certainly did a number on the ram's vitals.

Your situation certainly has me perplexed, but I feel you are on to something with your theory.

Here it is:
378GNR rechambered 375 Win barrel 14" w/ brake
375 cal. 260 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip

Best results of 5 loads tested between 62 to 64 grains IMR 4350. Range was warm 68� no wind, and sunny. 63 grains of IMR4350 printed a 3 shot 1.0725 group gross at 100 yards and .6975 net(2 shots were .5085 gross and .1335 net)Average velocity was 2001 fps. This was my first serious shooting with this cartridge and I am impressed. (Did not know I could shoot so well.)

Will try other bullets soon. Ya gotta get one!
Bill