Still thinking about the next Competitor barrel and just wondering about a 350 rem mag? My Accurate Arms manual shows a load for a 200 grain bullet at 3000 fps from a 20" barrel.....maybe 2800 from a 14" tube??? I have a perfectly good 14" 35 Remington barrel with a brake that could be rechambered to 350 Mag if I can find someone to do it......

Just wondering what you guys think? This would be a much easier decision if the Competitor would handle the WSM cartridges ;-)

A 338 of some flavor seems like a great compromise for all around performance, but Competitor doesn't offer 338 caliber barrels..........

[ 03-12-2003, 03:42: Message edited by: GonHuntin ]

I think you may be a bit optomistic on velocity, figure you'll loose on average 25 fps/in, so that gets you down to 2700 fps, but, that is still one heck of a combo!

I think the 350 rem mag would be a dandy, you can get brass and dies easily and at reasonable prices. I honestly don't think a bigger case would offer much increase in velocity in a 14" barrel either.

Hey Paul

If you figure 25 fps velocity loss per inch of barrel reduction......and the 3000 fps load is from a 20" barrel.......I think you are using "fuzzy math" to come out at 2700 fps?

6 X 25 fps is 150 fps.....not 300 fps.....right?

It's been a long day, I was thinking 50 fps/inch. I know with 20" and longer barrels, it seems like you loose 25-30 fps/inch, but with bottleneck rounds, once you get shorter then 20", you loose 50 fps/inch, on average.

I typically guesstimate 40-50 fps. You just never know till you shoot that indiviual gun though.
How about a 358 Win Ackly Improved? You won't have to deal with the belt and I think you will get just about as good performance from a 14 inch barrel. The downside is expensive dies and wildcatting. If you are wanting factory I would go with the 350 myself and the 35 whelen second. But the 35-284 & the 358 AI will work good too.
xphunter

Ernie

I had thought about the 35X284 but then we are back to custom dies again. Since a new barrel from Competitor retails for just $175......it's difficult to spend more than 50% of the barrel cost for a set of dies!

I did some research on the 350 mag verses the 35X284, the 350 has a slighty larger capacity.

I'm thinking about putting a set of barrels together that would handle anything I might hunt. I've got a 22 K-Hornet and 250-3000 Savage to handle the lower end. If I can get the 35 rechambered to 350 mag I'll have the upper end covered. I think a 284 Win or a good 30 caliber would round out the set.....maybe a 376 Steyr when I get the itch for something bigger!

Well, it looks like it is going to be a 350. I think you will enjoy it. I'm a little prejudiced on the 284 Win. when it comes to recommending another barrel. My 284 is full of wonderful memories: PD's, Rock Chucks, coyotes, bobcats, turkey, pigs, whitetail, muleys, elk, and just plain ole target shooting.
When this barrel begins to lose it's accuracy, I think I'm going to have another 284 Win. barrel put on.
Does Competitor make longer lengths than 14 inches? I can't remember, even though I have their info somewhere around here.
Ernie

Yes, they will make longer barrels, but the 14" barrel balances just right for me.

For some reason, it just doesn't feel like a handgun (to me) if the barrel is over 14".......

No problem there on what works for you. We all have our preferences and boundaries. Just keep us updated with your progress.
Ernie

Ernie

If you were limited to a 14" barrel and already had dies/brass for a 7-08.....would you still choose the 284?

GH,

A gent up here at my club had an XP at one time in this (350 Rem) caliber. I think it was a 15" bbl but I know for sure that he said he was doing about 2700 with 200's out of it.

I'd almost go for a 358 Win. to get away from the belted case and that AI version sounds interesting also. You would probably be talking $39 dollars for a stripped down sizer die for the AI version from CH/4D. Ditto for a 35/284. There probably isn't much difference between the AI and Regular version though.

I usually get a stripped down sizer or sizer only from them because I use the Hornady floating seater for everything in a particular caliber and neck expand with an M-Type die also.

Regards

[ 03-13-2003, 01:46: Message edited by: Headstamp ]

Why do some of you guys dislike belted cases?

I have loaded 300 win mag for years and never had a problem.......

Get the 350, there is nothing wrong with it, and nothing wrong with belted brass. The only problem is sloppy chambers in belted rounds, and folks that don't know how to set up their reloading dies.

Belts on cases in this day and age are obsolete. Their original purpose was for cases that had either a very slight shoulder as compared to case diameter at that point or a shoulder that had a very slight angle. In both cases, the belt affords a point for the case to headspace on more readily. BUT now you have to be concerned with proper shoulder placement as well.

Having said all that, do whatever floats your boat and what you are most comfortable with. If you have loaded belted brass before go with the 350 Mag.

Belts on cases on the modern cartridges of today with their steeper shoulder angles are more of a selling feature than anything else. Something about that word "Belted Magnum". Notice that I am not disparaging the Magnum cartridges as any of them especially the modern variety would do fine without a belt on the case.

Regards

[ 03-13-2003, 02:56: Message edited by: Headstamp ]

Mark,
That is a tough question since my 7-08 was a 14 inches and my 284 is a 15 3/4 inches. But if I already had dies and brass I would probably stay with the 08, since you will have a heavy hitter for elk size game. In fact, I may even consider the 260 Rem. (Oops, You didn't ask about that! hee hee).
I guess the actual deciding factor would be, what distance am I willing to count as my maximum for deer sized game? If the ranges are within the 7-08's range, why add extra cost, powder, and recoil to you and your pocket book. If a little more is what your interested in, then the 284.
When I had my 284 built it was to be the one specialty handgun that could go from PD's to elk. A hundred rounds in a day dog shooting is quite a bit with a 284 even with a 2-port mag-na-port. It has also taken 2-bulls and 3-cows (one cow was actually shot by a hunting partner who borrowed my XP).
For strictly factory rounds for deer sized game in a 14 inch barrel I would choose the 260 over the 7-08 or the 284 Win. if I wanted the most possible velocity.
Can I be blunt as a butter knife? Thanks for the permission...Aren't you glad I'm a mind reader?
IMHO--Order what "you really want" regardless of custom dies or whether or not you have brass in stock. The difference between what you want and standardized dies is pennies when considering the big picture. You, like me want high quality products that perform to our parameters. Both of us have spent good money to get what we really wanted. If you get what is okay, what someone else wants, or what is the most economical many times you are not satisfied and either don't use or sell it. If you will spend the money for NF scope, don't hesitate to oder the barrel/chambering that you really want even if you have to wait to get the extra funds together.

On the other hand--If this set-up is not that big of deal for you-go the cheaper route with 7-08 and save your pennies for whatever is the most important.
Only a preacher would take this many words to answer a simple question.
Ernie

Ernie

I'm not trying to be cheap.....just trying to get the most for my dollar......well, maybe I'm trying to be a little cheap, too.

The 284 verses the 7-08 question really has nothing to do with the cost of dies and brass......284 dies and brass aren't that expensive.....since you have had both, I wanted your honest opinion on which you would choose if you were in my situation. I won't base my decision on the fact that I already have 7-08 dies. If I said I want to be able to shoot a deer at 400 yards (not that I ever would)......how would that influence your answer?

On the custom die issue.......if the 350 mag and the 35 X 284 have nearly the same case capacity, performance and component cost......why choose the one that requires custom dies? If there is a good reason to go with the chamber that requires custom dies......then the expense can be justified......hopefully, if there is a good reason, someone here will point it out!

Since I already have 6mm, 6.5mm, 257, 309 and 375 JDJ barrels (and many other non JDJ barrels) for my Contender, I don't really have a "need" for a complete battery of barrels for the Competitor......truth is, I prefer the Competitor over the Contender and I think I'd keep it if one had to go........

Thanks, Mark

Mark,
Thanks for giving me a better picture.
Truth be known I'm a little tight too-cut where you can, when you can.
Possibility of 400 yards? 284 Winchester!
Might even try to talk you into an extra inch or inch and half, even if it doesn't feel like handgun. When I start stretching my barrel I want as much go as possible. My XP-100 starts @ 2750 w/140 BT and @ 400 yards 2123 fps.
Isn't that about what a 7-30 Waters with a 140 grain starts out with?
Ernie

Ernie

Yes, I think that's about the starting velocity for the 7-30 with a 140......

I did some measuring last night and my 35 Remington barrel is 14" long, when the brake is added, it's 15".....so.....if the 284 doesn't need a brake, I could stretch it to 15" and still have the same balance???

The 260 keeps popping up in your posts here...... I had thought about it, but discounted it because I already have the 250 and didn't figure the performance of the two was that far apart?

If your 284 does 2750.....what did the 7-08 do?

Since we are talking the potential of the longer ranges I would dismiss thoughts of the 260 Remington. My guess is that if you compared 120 grain bullet in both the 250 Savage and the 260 Rem., the 260 would come out the hands down winner by about 150 fps or more (about the same difference between a 308 and a 30-06).
Of course a 6.5-284 with a 15 inch barrel would be a beautiful thing to behold too. When I decided to build a longrange handgun I didn't build a heavy barreled 284, I built a heavy barreled 6.5-284.

Moving to an actual 15 inch barrel would basically have the same balance as 15 inch OAl does with 35 Rem w/brake.
My 7-08 with a 14 inch did 2540 with a 140 BT.
Note: you can get more out of a 140 w/a 7-08 than this, but this was the most accurate load. When sscoyote bought it from me he started using 120 BT's and them going around 2,800 fps if memory serves me right. I have never tried 120's with my 284. For longer range big game they may just be the cat's meow, but you would have to consider how they would react at close ranges (I don't know).
Like you, I would much rather have a centergrip design that can handle the higer pressure cartridges over a rear grip break-open action that cannot.
Ernie

Ernie

I hadn't considered the 6.5 X 284 because I thought it would require expensive custom dies......but I just checked and Hornady makes dies and they sell for less than $25! Barrel cost is the same for a 7-08, 284 or 6.5 x 284 and I know there is good brass available......

So, how well does the 6.5 X 284 work in a 15" barrel???? Would it need a brake? What bullet do you plan to shoot?

Now you really have me thinking!

[ 03-13-2003, 20:02: Message edited by: GonHuntin ]

Mark;

I have a rear grip XP in 350 REM MAG my first XP it started it all.

Killed 3 deer with.The best bullet I found is the 225gr BT from Nosler.The other bullets had core jacket seperation.I am getting almost 2500fps with the 225gr but that is just a tad below max.

The Hornady XTP bullets can be pushed pretty fast and for ground hogs and crows and such where you are not worried about to much expasion they are devastating.

Mine has the Leupold 4X on it and the best group I ever shot with at 200yds was just over 1 1/3" for 3 shoots.Mine is factory with no brake.

I have a artcile from Bob Minke(spelling)somewhere where he took his son elk hunting and used the 350 REM MAG.

I think it is a great round.

Wade

Wade

What loads are you using in your XP? Is it a 15" barrel?

Thanks,

Mark

I just chronographed my 358 Norma today. 16 inch barrel. I'm getting 2950 fps with 180 grn Hornady SSP bullets. Good extraction. I also have a 284 Winchester barrel. I like it , but the 358 Norma is just plain fun

Mark,
Sure enjoyed the phone conversation today. Need to do more of that.

Ernie

Yes, it was enjoyable......good thing I had plenty of cell phone minutes!

Mark

PS: Have you looked at the 6.5 x 284 data here:

data

I have now! Thanks!

Ernie