To all using this round,

First of let me say that this post is aimed toward those shooters using the 50 A.E. in custom single shot handguns mainly but all opinions are welcome.

I have been hunting with a T/C Encore 15" 50 A.E. for a few years now and found out very quickly that it is possible to load this round far heavier and faster then any bullet for the 50 A.E. is designed to be driven. This being near 2000 fps with 325 gr Speer bullets.

On light game this is fine as these bonded core bullets hold together better then they should and will easily give full penetration on game the size of a 300 lb whitetail or Mule deer out to 150 yards.

My quest for a heavier bullet for heavy game has taken me to some strange places. The obvious solution to my problem is a heavy hard cast bullet. The heaviest made for the 50 A.E. is in the 380 gr range, really not a heavyweight for a .500" bullet.

My first bright spot was when Winchester released the partition gold 12 gauge load using the 385 gr partition gold bullet. This projectile measures exactly .500" in diameter and would be a great bullet for heavy game in a single shot handgun.

The problem is that WIN/Nosler do not plan to offer these bullets as componants, and $12 for 5 shotgun rounds is a bit spendy.

I have even played with saboted bullets for muzzleloaders which could drive the +400gr .452" hard cast bullet in the 50 A.E.

Problem here is that these sabots take up far to much case capacity and oal is to great.

Recently I saw a bullet intended for muzzle loaders called the Black Belt bullet from Big Bore Express, Inc. Their bullets are 0.001" undersized with a 0.001" oversized plastic belt at their base for a gas check.

For the .500" bore they offer bullets in 295, 348, 405 and 444 gr.

I decided to order one box and see what happens in the 50 A.E.

They are designed for magnum muzzle loader at velocities from 1500 to 2000 fps, exactly where I'll be. What are your opinions on this?

Good idea or Bad? let me know what you think.

If they work they will give us Encore 50 A.E. shooters a real shot in the arm for heavy bullets. A 444 gr bullet seems about right for this case in the Encore.

Let me know what you think.

Good Shooting!!

50

Fiftydriver,

I had a 10" Encore 50AE, and sold it precisely because of the lack of bullet selection. Current bullet selection is as you said: just fine for deer sized game, but lacking for larger animals.

I think the Muzzleloader bullets are a good possibility, as these also tend to be soft enough to upset and obturate in the bore. Black powder and it's equivalents do not ignite and burn nearly as FAST as smokeless poweder, and so the immediate start is more of a push with BP than the violent shove one gets with smokeless, so I predict that the .001 difference will get filled pretty fast

Let us know how it goes! You might just encourage me into getting another 50AE barrel

To me, this is a caliber that cries out for a good, flat faced, hard cast, gas checked bullet.

Especially for heavier game. Also for the cost effective performance you can obtain from them.

A well fitted cast bullet will easily be able to be driven to the speeds you desire with smashing performance and without the worry of expansion.

I would get a custom mold made up to drop the diameter I needed with the design I wanted. NEI may even have a cherry for one already to go.

Ballisticast makes up to a 550 gr LFN cast bullet in this caliber. May be worth contacting them about cutting a mold for you.

http://www.ballisti-cast.com/Bullet%20Designs%20Page%209.htm

Good Luck in your search.

I believe the only .500" mold from balisticast is the 1436 350 gr. On the up side, balisticast has made lighter and heavier molds using existing cherries for both myself and a shooting partner, and their molds are w/o peer IMHO. They should be able to make it a gas check design w/o much trouble, and 50 cal gas checks are available.

I agree that what is needed for the 50 AE encore is a quality cast bullet of 450-500 gr. I just don't see the advantage of jacketed bullets unless you're running 2400 fps at the muzzle, for 1800 fps and under, IMHO hardcast lead is the best choice.

Fellow Handgunners,

Thank you for your time and thoughts replying to this post. It seems that we are all basically in agreement that the current crop of jacketed and hard cast bullets are not suitible for hunting heavy game with the 50 A.E.(Encore).

One other though I have been playing with is to take the heavy bullets designed for the .500 Linebaugh and run them through a .501" to .502" sizer. I really have no experience casting or sizing cast bullets so my question to you is if this is a practical option or are the .511-.512" bullets to large to size down to the correct diameter for the 50 A.E.

I would have to agree with Paul H that the best option for my 15" Encore in 50 A.E. would be a 450 to 500 gr LFNGC LBT bullet driven to +1500 fps which should be very easy to reach. Anyone loading for a big bore handgun knows its easier to drive a heavy bullet to good velocities then a light bullet to very high velocities.

In the case of this round/handgun combo or any traditional handgun round, velocity means very little as far as killing power. A good heavy bullet of LBT design driven to at least 1300 fps will kill anything walking very well.

But, again, I am not yet casting my own bullets and am simply investigating any option that is already on the market. So far the 405 and 444 gr bullets from Big Bore Express, Inc. for muzzleloaders look pretty good, that is if they shoot well. The only thing better is if they were made out of a tougher, harder lead allow such as the hard cast bullets we use. Since they are made to be driven down a barrel by hand, this is not a good option for the muzzleloaders.

Thanks again for the replys and any others are more then welcome, you guys give me more ideas everytime I get a reply.

Good Shooting!!

50

You could try sizing them down in a die like the Lee sizer or perhaps a custom die that screws in a press. Distortion of the driving bands should not be too bad depending on the bullet design.

I would not attempt this in a traditional lubesizer as they really are not made for something like this as far as strength.

You would need to slug your bore to get the correct sizing diameter for your gun.

Ballisticast at the link above lists bullets in 50 Cal. to 550 grains but I am not sure what specific diameter in the 50 cal. they have.

Regards

fiftydriver;

Your package is on the way.

I was wondering the same thing about the LBT bullets,I was thinking that you would have to size down two or more times to get it to .500

My dies brass bullets for my 50 will be here today plus a new press the Midway brand for $59.00 I have worn out two presses already.The last one broke the handle off while resizing the 475 Linebaugh.Broke the pin in it about 6 months ago.The other just wore out the main pin to where it was to sloppy to use anymore.

I think the 325 Uni will work for most things,but would like a 450gr WFN for shooting groundhogs ha,ha,.I would like a 400 to 450 gr XTP MAG bullet.

I wonder if LBT would make us a run of bullets if we had enough interest in some.

Wade

Handcannon,

How are you doing?

Hows the 300 Ultra coming along.

Was out to my smith friday of last week as he said my 338 WSM and 7mm Ultra would be finished by then. Got there and found out that he had his right thumb taken off at the knuckle the weekend before and was understandably a bit behind. They reattached his thumb and the Dr.'s were hopeful that it would retake.

Anyway, he said they should be finished by the end of the week or early next week. In talking with him, we decided to install a Holland break on the 7mm Ultra simply to save on the grip and frame. Have alot of test loads ready, just waiting to make alot of noise and recoil.

I agree with the idea that it would be great for a major bullet maker to give us a heavy jacketed bullet for the 50 A.E.

But, I can't say that I have ever been real satisfied with the performance of the Hornady XTP or even MAG/XTP bullets. I have yet to penetration test them and not have jacket/core seperation. Not to mention that Hornady charges $25.00 for 50 .475" 400 gr XTP-MAG bullets, the .500 version would probably be over $30 per box.

I would much prefer to see Speer add 100 to 150 grains to their Uni-Core HP and change it to a SP design with a larget melpat. I love the 300gr Uni-Core SP for my 45 Colt and a 425-475gr SP for the 50 A.E. would be great. Since they already have the .500" tooling, I would think they could make the bullet the easiest. Also the bonded core design they use would perform much better on heavy game and their price is very good compared to Hornady.

Good Shooting!!

50

Hawk Bullets ( http://www.hawkbullets.com )
sells 300gr and 350gr Flat points and 265gr, 300gr and 350gr JHP's in two different jacket thickness. They ARE NOT cheap, but neither are hunting trips.

BRP also sells hard cast .501" bullets in 340(ish)gr and 380gr weights.

You might also look into Hotch moulds / Colorado shooters supply, if you cast your own. I had them make me up a 404gr WFN in .501" a few years back. I think they made lighter ones.

[ 09-04-2002, 08:53: Message edited by: cas ]

You aren't going to have much luck trying to size a .512" bullet down to .501". My buddy had a mold that was dropping bullets .515" and bent the handle on his star sizer running it through a .512" sizer. If the bullets are soft, then you can size them a fair bit, but hard cast bullets can only be taken down a few thousandths.

Looks like either you need a 500 Linebaugh barrel to take advantage of the better bullet selection, or you need to seriously consider getting into casting.

I've been casting for a few years now, and about 1000 #'s of lead, and honestly it isn't that hard. I've even managed to pay for my custom molds by selling a few bullets here and there, in fact a suprising # have been shipped out of state, including the horendous shipping charge.

A lee bottom poor furnace, a five gallon bucket of wheelweights, and a good mold or two and you're on your way w/o alot of cash outlay. With plainbase bullets you can use lee tumble lube and not even have to size them.

Anyhow, something to consider.

fiftydriver;

Doing just fine got less than a month before bow season.Spending time in between the bow and the guns I love this time of the year.Getting everything ready.My 458X2 XP-100 is ready for opening day of gun.The 475 Lin is getting there and the 375/06JDJ is shooting like crap.It is shooting all over the paper,maybe scope failure,or the nut behind the gun.Or scope base and rings.Just put another scope on it going to try that this week.

My XP-100 in 300 RUM is still at the gunsmith waitimg its turn.Damn I hate the wait,not looking for it back to the first of the year.But my REM 700 PSS in 300 RUM is shooting 1.6" groups at 400yds(best 3 out of 5) and a daddy never could be so happy.With 165gr Nosler BT it averageing under 2" at that range.At 3200fps just got some more bullets and going to see what happens at the higher velocity.

Been reloading for my 50.I am seating the bullet out to where it is a little tight too close and when I open it on a unfired round that is tight going in my extractor slips off of the grove,but after fired thay seem to do ok.Do you taper crimp these at all,I do just to bring the mouth back in after belling it out.Be going to the range and will have more data and a better idea what is going on.

Wade

Handcannon,

What scopes are you mounting on your 375-06? While I'm sure the recoil is a bit harsh, I would thing that a leupold, burris or T/C would easily handle the strain in good mounts and rings.

I can't wait to get my 338 WSM shooting, I'm hoping to use her as my main hunting handgun this year. I have a good river bottom chunk of ground where I'm itching to try my open sighted 480 Ruger in the SRH out. Shot quite a bit of game with scoped revolvers but this would be my first deer with open sights.

Our bow season opens this Saturday and I'm pretty much ready to go sneak up on some pronghorns. Been practicing pretty much since it was warm enough to get out and put some pulls on the bow. This last month I have switched to shooting at my 3-D deer and Pronghorn targets. For the last 7 nights in a row, I have started my shooting session with a single very long shot. Anywhere from 65 to a full 100 yards. So far I'm 7 for 7 with lung hits. I figure my rusty shot is usually my first shot of the night so I am pretty happy with the set up. Only with I had a faster bow so I could get a few more pins on her, like 9 isn't enough.

For those of you reading this, please do not scream at me for shooting at game 100 yards away with a bow beacuse this is only practice. I believe, just as with a rifle or handgun, the farther away your target, the more you learn about your shooting skill.

Last fall I harvested my goat at 63 yards over a decoy and I would take a 75 yard shot if things were perfect.

Anyway, sounds like your 300 RUM rifle is being a very good boy for you. Those are good groups for a custom rifle. As far as the 165 gr bullets go, I have loaded them to 3625 fps after coating them and using R-22 and H-1000. This year I may try the 150 gr Ballistic Tips with Retumbo. I figure that they will easily go 3700 fps with max loads and should be a hell of a back up round when I'm playing clean up. This is what I spend alot of my hunting season doing, and then I spend the last week of the season trying to get my buck and going with my wife to get hers.

I must say that I rarely have to do much shooting, we have some pretty good shots in my family, just going is the best part anyway.

As far as the 50 A.E. goes, if your extractor is slipping when ejecting a loaded round, one of a few things could be happening.

1) Obviously the bullets could be seated a little to hard into the rifling. The Speer bullet has an almost pure copper jacket and is sticky. I moly coat my bullets and this problem goes away. Try seating them just a bit deeper and see what happens. Just deep enough so that you can still extract a loaded round with a bit of resistence.

2) If the cases are not fully sized they will get sticky in the case. The 50 A.E. has quite a taper on it, great for gas sealing but not for chambering a tight case. I have to full length size my cases all the time.

3) Make sure your cases are very dry and clean. I have had cases with a bit of lube on them get stick when extracting a loaded round, just something to check.

4) Make sure chamber is also cleaned often. Same problem as a lubed case just from the other direction.

5) Taper crimp your cases just enough to lay case straight against the bullets side wall. As you said your are doing this it really doesn't pertain to your problem.

I have found a partially sized case will case most chambering problems with the 50 A.E. There really isn't a choice except to full length size. Especially when loading to these +P+ loading.

What velocities and groups are you getting with your 50 so far?

Good Talking with you. Was my check enough for the shipping of the brass, hopefully is was more then enough and will pay for your time as well. I almost feel bad about the deal you gave me!!!

Good Shooting!!

50

fiftydriver;

Yes yousent more than enough money for the brass,you sent about $10.00 to much.I have some pics I will be sending you with a refund when I get a chance.

Scope on the 375/06JDJ was a 4X Leupold now I have a 2X7 Burris on it to see what happens if it does good I will send the Leupold back for some repairs.Yes the recoil is very brutal,more so with the 300gr bullet weight is getting veery bad.It sounds like it is going to blow up every time you pull the trigger.The Encore is stronger than what I thought it would be.

I tappered crimp the 50 and it is doing better,have not been to the range to doing any testing on it,maybe over the weekend I will find the time.

Very happy with the 300RUM in the rifle,going to see what happens when I increase the loads.Now if I can get my XP back and it like the same loads as the rifle then I will be very happy with them both.Only time will tell.

I can't wait to hear how your 7mm RUM does in the Encore and the 338WSM in the XP does.I hope you get what you are wanting out of it,if you do then maybe my project will get me where I want to be.

What kind of bow setup do you use.I shoot a Pse Dominater at 77# with a 2312 arrow and Thunderheads.I have shot this bow for a long time and it will shot threw both shoulders of a Whitetail.

Wade

Handcannon,

Had a hang-up with the 7Rum already, the chamber is tighter then I thought and pressures were a bit high with starting loads from Hodgdon. It was to dark to chrony so I have no idea where velocity is at. First groups were right at 1" though.

Seems I will still have problems with case head seperation. After two firings I have a .010" thin spot already. I think three firings is about all I will get out of each case. That fine with me though, its alot better then 2 firings with the Lazz brass at $2.00 each.

Don't even think about sending me a refund. Spend it on gas or bullets or something like that, I'm getting a steel. Would like the pictures though to hang on my game board.

My bow is an Alpine Turbo Extreme. It is a little bugger at only 33" between the axles but is pretty quick. I have it maxed at 70 pounds and am getting 275 fps with a 5575 gold tip carbon arrow. I use either Wasp Jack Hammer mechanical blades for deer and antelope or Wasp fixed blades for elk and boars or anything where i want more penetration. Both are 100 grains.

I like the mechanicals because they shoot like a field point but open up to a 2 1/4" cutting area after impact.

Not real experienced in bow hunting as far as years, just started a few years ago and can say I will always be a handgun/rifle man but its fun and extends the hunting season an extra month, can't beat that.

Good Shooting!!

I'm hoping to get the chrony out tomorrow with the 7mm RUM, if I do I'll let you know the results.

50

Have you checked Cast Performans Bullets for 50 cal Hard Cast. They make them from 410 upt to 525 grains. I think they are intended for the 500 Linebaugh, but should work in the 50AE.

Cast Performance Bullets

Tony.. 50AE uses .501" bullets. The 500 Linebaugh uses .510-.512"

Not sure which will cost more? Custom molds or rebarrel? My 11-1/4" stainless SSK .50 American Eagle, used my .500 Linebaugh bullets from 350 grains up to 525 grains, along with other cast bullets up to 600+ grains. Also used several .50 BMG bullets, the 700 grain AP being the most consistent, of the surplus bullets. Because my chamber had long throats, I could seat my Linebaugh OAL to 500 Maximum lengths. I also had my barrel modified to use trimmed down rimmed 500 Linebaugh brass, like I did on my 300 Whispers. There is a lot more variety of .510" bullets. I was the one that Paul H said was bending the handle of my Star sizer, trying to size down .515" bullets down. Real soft pure lead would be possible to swage down, but harder stuff? You better have a strong sizer. I used to size down .458" jacketed bullets for my .454 Casull, in the early days when the heavy cast bullets in .451-.452 wasn't around, but I used a die that Corbin made for me, and had to have a strong press. Good luck on your search!