I used to have a 6.5 Grassl Rimmed 14" contender tube, basically the 7 intl. rim necked down, or a 30-30 necked down to 6.5 with a sharp shoulder. While the barrel was very accurate, brass life was short ~3 firings before case head sepperation.

I've been contemplating a very lightweight mild recoiling single shot contender based rifle for deer hunting, and am thinking between the 6.5 TCU and and a 6.5 on the 30-30. I'm leaning towards the 30-30 because I like a larger rimmed case for use with gloved hands, and heck, the 30-30 is just a neat parent case.

I'm wondering if anyone else has tried a 6.5 30-30 improved and pros/cons of the chambering.

6.5X50R isn't a consideration, I hate odball brass with a passion (350 Rigby and 500 Jeffrey have cured me of that fascination for good!)

It seems you would have a 6.5mm little brother to the 7-30 Waters. I've read that using the improved version of the Waters does not gain much. I don't have one, but I think the Waters case life is pretty good and it is certainly a great deer round. The 6.5mm would give a little better BC and probably nice performance. I'll bet OTT could make a barrel for it pretty easy. That is a neat idea and fits between the 6.5 TCU and 6.5-06. I've been thinking about a 25-35 AI, but this could be even better...in a Contender or a Marlin 336.

I have a 24" 25 x 30-30 IMP (basically a 25-35 AI) coming from MGM, so maybe we'll be able to compare notes later on. I've had a number of 6.5s, from the TCU to the JDJ to the Bullberry (standard) and the 6.5x50R Bellm. In the Bullberry (30-30 based) and JDJ (.225 based), Re-15 seem to rule the roost with the 120s.

I've never had a case life problem with any of these.

My soon-to-arrive quarterbore has a 1:9 twist. I like the 25s almost as much as the 6.5s, so I'm excited about working with this one.

Perhaps the brass issue with the previous barrel was that the previous owner had fireformed all the brass, it's been a few years so I dunno. I tried RL 15, Varget, N-550 and H-4350, and in the 6.5 GR, H-4350 produced the best accuracy by far. H-4350 would appear to be a too slow powder, but it sure did the trick in that application.

Bobby, I think you were the one that ended up with all the 120 gr balistic tips I'd bought with that barrel.

Paul-Yep, you made me a great deal on all those bullets!

H4350 also worked well in my 2nd to last 6.5 JDJ barrel, that one a 14" version. The velocity was right at 2400 fps, and the accuracy was well under MOA. But Re-15 just clover-leafed them every time, so that's the load I went with.

As to the brass that was already fireformed, I have a feeling he may have not fully formed them on the first try or not supported the case via a compressed load and a bullet long enough to come close or touch the lands.

If brass is not fully formed on the first go-round, it really stresses it and can shorten the life significantly.

I have a small lot of 7mm Bullberry brass (based on a shortened 30-30 case) that now has more than 20 firings through it. There's no sign of problems yet, and the frequency of trimming is minimal. I am loading 32 grains of H335 for 2505 fps with a Sierra 130 grain SSP and 33.5 grains H335 under the Hornady 120 grain SSP/tipped for right at 2600 fps. (Barrel length on this one is 20 1/8th).

Paul H: Another, although pricy, alternative would be JDJ's 6.5 Minidreadnaught. A 220 Swift expanded to 6.5, min taper and 60 degree shoulder; or you could also go 6.5 x 57R. Both will give in the neighborhood of 260 Rem. balistics or better. JD Jones velocity claims for this cartridge seem to be a little optimistic.

The 6.5 BR Magnem is another possibility. 6.5 140 Gr bullet at 2,400. Brass and dies as well as barrels from http://www.ebaco.com Based on the 219 Donaldson Wasp brass, elongated to hold about 10 Gr more powder, 50.00 for dies and 40.00 for 100 pieces of brass. This is still probably just basically 30 30 brass. The 220 Swift is much stronger brass. The 6.5 x 57R is probably somewhere in between those two or closer to the 220 Swift in strength.

A 6.5 JDJ No. 2 is a 307 Win. necked down to 6.5, so you get a rimed case with a little less capacity than a 260 Rem. The brass is thicker and stronger, which accounts for the difference in capacity. I believe that other after market barrel makers are willing to chamber this case in the AI form. Standard 260 dies can be used, but you would need to use a 708 die as an intermediate step between .30 and .264 caliber sizing on this one.

The 6.5 x 730 Waters and similar sized cases give about 2400 with 140s and show no velocity increases to speak of with 120s in a contender. An Encore will yield some what greater velocities. I hope that this helps and doesn't just muddy the waters for you, Rusty.

Rusty Hook-
Only one problem with your cartridge list: they are primarily for Encore, and Paul was asking about Contender cartridges.

The 6.5 BRM is an excellent one that IS suitable for the Contender, but eabco is no longer offering Contender barrels other than what the TC Custom Shop produces -- and they don't do the BRMs yet. VVCG used to make barrels for Eben, but their demise put Brown in a tight spot. He geared up to chamber his own but decided to only do the Encore barrels for now.

The 6.5 JDJ #2 (and others based on the fireformed .307 case) may have been discontinued by JDJ since it operates above redline for the Contender unless you are very careful with the loading. Like the Bowers chamberings, they can get you in trouble in a hurry with the Contender.

The 6.5 JDJ#2 was origionally loaded for the Contender for people who wanted to use 307 brass. The BRMs could also be loaded down for the Contender as could the Dreadnaught. I have met people who have loaded and shot load 250 Savages, 300 Savages and 308s in Contenders. Granted they should not be loaded to above safe Contender limits, but it is possible to get into trouble with anything unless you are using powders so slow that you can't possibly put enough powder in the case to get into trouble.

Personally, I don't think that such practices are a good idea. Especially if you sell or trade the barrel off. Others may not be knowledgable enough not to fire a factory cartridge that would generate pressures well beyond what the gun was designed to handle, with dangerious results likely.

Paul seemed knowlegeble enough to know what he could and couldn't do. And if anyone wanted to go to the more potent cases and loadings, they could easily get an Encore frame and do so safely. One should always consult reliable loading data before loading and firing a weapon. But I realize that not everyone always does that. I appologize if I misslead anyone. It was not my intention to do so, that's why I included the qualification about the Encore and higher pressures at the end. I didn't realize that Paul was dead set on a Contender frame only. Thanks for pointing that out to me...Rusty.

Rusty Hook-Yes, you were absolutely right in that the .250 savage and .300 Savage along with the JDJ #2s (on the IMP .307 case) were one-time common Contender cartridges. And the Savage cases, in improved form and using standard load data only, are still viable and occasionally available from bellmtcs.com (when Mike is doing chamber work) or from David White (can be found through the Bellm forums)

And the BRMs don't have to be loaded down. They were originally designed for the 97 BF rifle and Contenders, but a twist of fate via a company's closing put them into Encores instead. Eben is still loading to the original specs. Those rounds aren't meant for sizzling speeds anyway. The long, skinny bullets he recommends at moderate velocity are superb game killers, and it's a concept myself and many others have been succesfully using for many years now.

I guess I wasn't clear on my first post, I'm looking for a contender chambering, not a G2, not an encore. I already have the frame, so it's just a matter of getting a barrel. The goal is a light recoiling cartridge to make a very light rifle. I plan to make a wood stock that will be more air than wood with the wood hogged out from the inside.

I've grown tired of rounds that use exotic or semi exotic brass, so 5.56X50R, 225 Win and 307 win brass is out. I also have no desire to get a chambering that threatens to stretch the frame, so 30-30 is the biggest case I want to ply with.

After looking at some loading manuals, I'm thinking the plain jane 30-30 will likely work as well as anything. 125 gr balistic tips can be launched around 2700 fps, and factory barrels are pretty cheap. I can also launch 180 gr cast bullets for cheap practice.

If I was using the encore as a starting point, I'd likely just go with the 260 Rem, or maybe a Bellmized 260 based on the 444 case, or perhaps do a rimmed 6.5X55 using the 444 case. Hmm, I just might have to do that one of these days

Paul - as a good starting point check out the ballistics that Fred Smith got at the Bullberry website on his 6.5 BB Imp. For all intents it is a 6.5 30-30 Imp.
I shoot a 6mm 30-30 Imp. and most of what I worked up started out as data derived from there.
Easy brass to locate, the task then becomes getting it formed. I can clue you this....with two very cheap sets of .260 Rem dies modified accordingly you can be in business for years of shooting.