I took the new TC Custom Shop 12 1/2" heavy bull Encore barrel in .260 to the range yesterday to get the scope sighted in with a box of factory Rem. 140's. After getting on good at 50yds. I moved out to 100yds. and I literally ate a orange 1" dot up with the remaing 8 rounds.

Last nite I loaded up 6 loads of five rounds each using Speer 120gr Hot-Cors, (no 120gr Nosler BT's in the shop) CCI BR-2 primers and Varget and headed to the range at the crack of dawn this morning.

The loads were 37.0, 37.5, 38.0, 38.5, 39.0, and 39.5......are you ready for this ?, the best load was a disappointing 3 1/2".

I had a TC factory Contender 14" barrel in 6.5TCU awhile back that would not group any bullet over 120grs no matter what powder I tried because of the twist I suppose.
Now based on how good the barrel shot the Rem. factory 140's yesterday do you think I need to move up to a 140gr or heavier bullet and if so who makes one that would expand properly in my 12 1/2" barrel.

Come on fellas bail me out on this. <g>

[ 04-21-2003, 03:51: Message edited by: IKE ]

Ike,
Are you seating your bullets out to where you are engaging the lands by 5/1000's? Seating them far enough out where it makes a square mark on the bullet? If that is what you are already doing back it off the lands? It may just not like those bullets (brand). It may prefer flatbase bullets over boattails. Yes, it may be the weight. Every barrel is like a person--they all have different preferences, and some are exceptionally picky.
A long time ago I set-up a 338 Win. Mag. for 210 Partitions--no matter what I did (powders, primers, AOL) the groups where terrible. Then I tried the 250 Partition--grouped right around the inch mark!
What do you consider to be your maximum range you would attempt a deer sized animal with your 260?
xphunter

In addition to the simple bullet-powder-primer combo (plus seating depth), another thing comes to mind: Since factory ammo did so well, how are you sizing your cases? Are you bumping the shoulder a bit too much? That can and will destroy accuracy. I generally set my dies to touch the shoulder but not so much as "push it back." Also, if you could get your hands on some Nosler 120 grain BTs and load them up with H4350, you may get a better feel for the problem. The 120/H4350 combo has proven to be very accurate in a number of firearms.

XP,

I seated the bullets, like I always do in a Contender or Encore, by seating the bullet shallow and then kept seating the bullet deeper, while trying to close the action, and I kept this up till the action would "just" close with no resistance and then went about another 1/16" deeper with the seater.

The bullets were Bobby T's second choice after a Nosler BT's and third was a Hornady SST and they are a flat base.

As far as maximum range, I'd feel extremely comfortable taking a shot out to 250 yds with a good solid rest but where I hunt my shots normally come under 100yds.

Bobby,

I'm setting my RCBS die as per the FL die instructions that come with Redding dies, with a shell holder in the press and the ram up I screw the FL die down till it just barely touches the shell holder and lock the ring.

It just puzzles me as to how fantastic the factory ammo shot and how terrible my handloads did.....this is the first time I've ever encountered something like this.

[ 04-21-2003, 03:54: Message edited by: IKE ]

Let us know what happens after you experiment more and measure your new factory ammo with your resized brass with the way it is currently set-up.

Bobby,
Thanks for the heads up with H-4350 with 120's. I have only used Varget so far. Have you used this powder with 140's?

Ernie

Ike-
One other thing: Could your mounting system have come loose? It sounds like you are doing everything right from the reloading end.

If it shoots fine with 140s, it should do very well with 120s also. It could be that the particular combo was just not meant to be in your particular barrel, but 3.5" groups could be caused by the base screws coming loose or the scope slipping in the rings.

Ernie-With 140s, Re-19 worked the best, but H4350 was a very close second.

Bobby,
Partially Off Topic:
Have you used any of the match 6.5 bullets?
SMK's, Scenars, Clinch River, etc.....
If so, what cartridge/weight/MV?

Ike,
Keep me informed. I'm definitely curious now!

Ernie

Ike,
With the barrel off the frame, how far do your sized cases stick out of the barrel?

What is your barrel-to-frame gap?

How does the amount the case head stick out compare to the actual gap?

Many loading dies are too long inside, even when running the shell holder to the bottom of the die. Fine for bolt guns, but a no-go for break open guns. The only way to know is to measure the results in your chamber.

Bear in mind also that the expander plug will pull shoulders back forward, sometimes by quite a bit, so even if the die is the correct length inside, the cases still come out too long.

Mike

XP, Bobby, & Mike,

Thanks for all the help and suggestions and I'll look at everything you fellas brought up this week.

If there's a bright side to this at least we know the barrel will shoot based on how it grouped the factory ammo, we just gotta figure out what the "Okie" is doing wrong. <g>

I won't be able to head to the range again till this coming Sunday (Apr. 27th) morning and good or bad I'll report back then.

While running all kinds of "how comes ?" through my head yesterday I recalled something I'd heard or read quite awhile back.

A fella said that his accuracy went to pot, on any round, if the base of the bullet is seated down past the neck of the case and mine are because the action won't close unless I do....any truth or reason to this ?

Thanks again gents, your input is greatly appreciated.

Ike

[ 04-22-2003, 01:26: Message edited by: IKE ]

Ike wrote: "A fella said that his accuracy went to pot, on any round, if the base of the bullet is seated down past the neck of the case and mine are because the action won't close unless I do....any truth or reason to this ?"

There may be a hair of truth in there, but remember, that 140 grain factory bullet is seated very deeply.

Ernie-
I have used the MKs and Scenars, but most of my shooting has to do with hunting loads. Therefore, they don't get a whole lot of attention devoted to them.

But I can say this: The Lapua Scenar bullets are capable of some phenomenal groups -- better than anything else I have ever used.

Again running the "why's" and "how comes" through my mind at work today, just for the heck of it I went to the gun shop after work and measured the OAL for a factory 140gr .260 Rem. round that shot so well.

Now I know the bullets and their respective ogives will be different but the OAL of a factory 140gr round was 2.685 and my 120gr Speer load OAL is 2.787.

Based on the differences in OAL do you think I should just seat my loads deeper and try a whole new batch of pet loads or just move on to a different powder, keeping my same OAL, and if that doesn't work try another bullet ?

Anyone want to buy a .260 barrel ? <g>

IKE, It's sure neat and exciting when one finds a good load for a barrel, but boy it's even MORE frustrating when one finds a "bad" load instead of a good load. On the other hand, the trials and tribulations of playing w/ loads is one of the main reasons many handload. Keep working the problem methodically and I'm confident you'll find the problem. You've already been given a lot of good suggestions, but I have one small one; before burning a lot of powder/bullets playing around w/ different OAL's, you might measure the factory round that shot so well to see how far off the lands that particular bullet is; then, set up the loads w/ your other bullets at the same distance off the lands as the factory load. Some handloading authorities claim that a particular barrel will shoot most accurately w/ the same distance off the lands. If you have a device like the Sinclair "Comparator" that measures the OAL for a bullet based on that bullet's ogive, that would be another measurement to follow. "Keep the faith." Gary T.

Just for giggles today I called TC and ask them what the twist rate was for my barrel, they said that without exception "Every" caliber they chamber for that shoots a 6.5 bullet gets a 1 in 8 twist.....period.

That sorta tells me that with a 1 in 8 I probably need to be loading heavier bullets than the 120's or maybe one at least with a longer bearing surface.

I called the Hornady Tech. number and ran all this by a fella named Bob and at first I ask about their 140gr SST's then he said he'd got reports from fellas with .260 Rem. Encores (again all with a TC 1 in 8 twist) that their 129gr SST BT (longer bearing surface)shot fantastic and preformed well on deer sized animals and that the Speer 120's that I tried were more than likely over stabilizing do to the twist rate of my barrel.

Well I went to my local gun shop after work and picked up a box of the Hornady 129gr SST's and I'll give them a try this Sunday morning and see what happens.

Are we having fun yet ? <g>

[ 04-23-2003, 13:47: Message edited by: IKE ]

Ike-I have a number of various-calibered 6.5s that have 1:8 twists, and getting accurate loads with everything down to the little 85 grain Sierra HPs is not a problem. So if the TC tech insinuated you should be shooting bullets heavier than 120 grains, he or she was way off base.

[ 04-23-2003, 08:42: Message edited by: Bobby Tomek ]

Just one more thing to add: Despite what Bob at Hornady may have stated, you are definitely not overstabilizing the 120 grain Speer. Within reason, you cannot overstabilize a projectile. But you can certainly understabilize one...

It amazes me what folks in positions such as his will say -- and just how wrong they can be.

Gotta agree, Bobby.

But if a bullet comes out the spout out of balance and badly in a yaw, the faster it spins, the worse it is. Bullets spin at hellacious rpms.

That is all the more reason to get 'em started down the tube straight to begin with, something an off center and/or too large in diameter throat can't do.

Mike

Well I'm a pretty happy camper, compared to last Sunday, after this mornings shooting session.

I went to the range at dawn this morning with six pet loads of five rounds each. The powder and primers were again Varget and CCI BR-2's but the bullets this time were Hornday #26202 129gr. BT SST's....the loads were 34.5, 35.0, 35.5, 36.0, 36.5, 37.0 and the range was 100yds.

The load that it ended up liking was 36.5grs which printed just a hair under 1", apparently the barrel does like the longer bearing surface of the Hornadys over the Speers.

Now that I've found the bullet the barrel likes I may experiment / play around a little now with powders, I know my 6.5x55 Rem. Mdl. 700 and Swedish Mausers show a marked preference for RL-22 and I do have some of it, IMR4895, IMR4064 and BLC-2 on hand that are also shown in the Hornady and Sierra manuals for the .260.

Ernie, Bobby T. or anyone else....after experimenting have you found "The" powder for the .260 in a pistol length barrel ?

[ 04-28-2003, 01:44: Message edited by: IKE ]

My 14" 6.5x.308 absolutely thrived on H4350, but it also did well (easily sub-MOA) with Re-15. There are a number of good options for this case as the capacity lends itself to versatility in the powder burning spectrum, but the H4350 really snugged 'em in close in my XP and in a 26" VLS rifle as well.

BTW, I am glad to hear that things are really looking up with the barrel...

I have only used Varget so far in my MOA 260. If I remember right it was 36.5 grain of Varget with a 120 NBT. I chronoed my 260 load on Friday:
2515 fps--the bullet passed over the chrono 18 feet from the muzzle so I haven't ran it through the software to figure the actual MV but it is close enough. This is a 14 inch barrel. it is not going very fast, but it was the most accurate load so far.
Glad you had a better day on the range!
Ernie