I'm looking for a medium range centerfire round (0-150 yards)to use on coyotes in a 10" bbl with minimum muzzleblast. I've been looking at anything from 221 Fireball up to 45 Colt. I know that there are several factors that change a particular cartridges "BOOM", but generally which one, two, or three barrels in your collection shoots the quietest.

I've also thought about a dual purpose round, something that can be loaded for varmits and deer sized game.

[ 07-26-2002, 17:46: Message edited by: Alpo ]

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What about a good old 357 Mag. I wouldn't push it for deer past 100 yds though.

There are several rounds that are effective for game up to the size of dear, but I'm afraid none of them that are appropriate out to 150 yds is a quiet one

Suggestions would be the 6.5 TCU, 7 TCU, 300 whisper, 30 herret, 357 Herret, and the nee plus ultra ---357 maximum---.

The 357 max can be loaded down for quiet loads using fast powders and cast bullets, can drive the 125 gr hollowpoints at velocities that will make them violent and effective varmint loads, and with 180-200 gr bullets, will take suprisingly large game. It's also a natural cast bullet shooter, can't wait to get mine, )hint hint VV )

Alpo, Only barrel I have less then 14" is an 8" braked 44mag. I don't think thats the one your looking for To tell you the truth...I don't think any 10" barrel is going to be quiet. Maybe 6X45 aka 6MMx223 might be the one your lookin for. But I would go with at least a 12" barrel......But thats me

Here's an odd nomination- 30-30

OK, 10" barrel, quiet and accurate. You can pick up 10" 30-30 barrels cheap, because they are inefficient for deer loads. Hear me out!

Out of my 20" carbine barrel, I made a cloverleaf group at 50 yards using 100 grain "plinkers" and 11 grains of unique. Those are quiet, but not as quiet as....
7 grains of unique under 170 grain cast bullets

but the real "pffft" load is 3 grains of bullseye, a tiny wisp (just a wisp!) of dacron filler, and the 170 grain cast. It's like an airgun, and it hits hard! I should anneal those 170 grainers to real soft, but they work good as cast.

Now, that's a real waste of case capacity, and if you fill the case up, in 10" barrel, you are going to have a big fireball. But it'll work, and it's a cheap used barrel. Or you could get a 14" barrel. Or a 30 carbine, or the really COOL 32-20 on a .308 chamber. People used to shoot deer with 32-20, but you had better have a perfect shot, or you'll just injure an animal.

As for the .357 Maximum- in this offering, a custom barrel is vastly superior to the factory's. Here is a quiet load- 2.8 grains of Hodgodon Clays held down my a micro wisp of dacron filler, 148 grain DEWC crimped on the lube groove (seated way out). THere are a lot of good 180 grain plus cast bullets out there that could be annealed to very soft, that would be real quiet. For deer, my best accuracy has come from 180 grain 35 remington Hornady Single Shot Spire Points (sssp) using H110. Folks say h4227 is better accuracy, and Lil Gun might get you a little more velocity.

After trying to get one barrel to do it all, I think I eventually got close with .357 Maximum and 30-30. It took me about 3 years of fiddling! My conclusion is that I would have been a lot happier getting a nice Hornet barrel for small game/plinking and a .45 Colt(not .410) or .44 Magnum or .45/70 (you don't have to load it to max!) for deer.

I suppose my old .357 Max is up for sale, with a Redfield scope and Leupold base. I could let it go for $175 and throw in a lot of brass and a wide selection of bullets. If anyone wants to try it out before going custom.... I'd suggest a custom though, if you have the $.

Pete

Hey Paul, You didn't order a 357Max from Virgin Valley, did ya?

30 wisper, 220 gr 1040 fps muzzle, 900 at 150

Jules,

I'm a sucker for shorty sales

Pokerplayer,

The 300 whisper is not quiet unless it has a supressor on it. I've shot a 9" whisper, and the match king loads are anything but a whisper more like a 9mm. It is also requires a lazer rangefinder to make accurate shots to 100 yds and beyond with a round with such an arc'd trajectory.

Now, load 125 gr balistic tips at ~2100 fps, and then you have a 150 yd coyote and whitetail pistol.

.

As for the .357 Maximum- in this offering, a custom barrel is vastly superior to the factory's. Here is a quiet load- 2.8 grains of Hodgodon Clays held down my a micro wisp of dacron filler, 148 grain DEWC crimped on the lube groove (seated way out).

What is a MICRO WISP of Dacron Fiber?? Where do I get it???

FirebALL

A micro whisp of Dacron is when you hold the charged case up to your face and say "Dacron" very quietly to the case mouth.



BTW, Replace "hammer" for "trigger" on your tag-line.

(just picking on you)

Regards

[ 07-27-2002, 04:38: Message edited by: Headstamp ]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Headstamp:
[QB]A micro whisp of Dacron is when you hold the charged case up to your face and say "Dacron" very quietly to the case mouth.



BTW, Replace "hammer" for "trigger" on your tag-line.

(just picking on you)

Headstamp!! Now how right you are!!! I guess the word for me reguarding that one would be from the Spanish Vocabulary.........TONTO!!!....English Version of the word............STUPID

Stupid and corrected I stand...will be changed this weekend..........lol
fireball

I am still looking for a sighting system for my switch barrel XP granted my barrels a little longer but I think it is quieter than any 357 that will kill at 150 the fact that it shoots like a rainbow is just one more obstacle. I have parked my large boltface barrels till I master the sighting difference between 17MKIV and 223.

How about a light loaded 7X30 waters? I have a 14" that shoots very well. As far as quiet...That's like asking what kind of shoes are the best (hehe).

Pokerplayer, This may be odd, but how 'bout setting up lazers on your different bbl's and only use the scope to see the lazers? Just a thought.
mvm

[ 07-27-2002, 06:20: Message edited by: pshooter ]

As far as no "BOOM" I have seen some guys playing around with the Hornet case a round .22 ball and a primer.
Jeff

Alpo, To me, there is ONE answer to this question--300/221 (AKA 300 Whisper). There are other rounds that will be more quiet than the 300/221 (22 Hornet, 17 Mk IV ?, 22 K-Hornet) and rounds that will be as quiet as the 300/221 (221 FB), but none of these are really suitable for deer hunting. There are other rounds that ARE suitable for deer hunting (6 TCU and 7 TCU come to mind), but I really don't think they'll be as "quiet" as the 300/221. Others will have difficult to manage trajectories. Yes, you can work up reduced loads that are no louder than a 22 mag (I've got a VERY nice one for my 6.5 JDJ that I sometimes squirrel hunt w/), but you certainly won't be able to varmint/deer hunt w/ them. You also have to deal w/ vastly different scope settings w/ reduced/light loads. True, the "Whisper" moniker actually applies to subsonic loads w/ a suppressor, but in my experience, supersonic loads are still much quieter than most other rounds. It just doesn't make much noise burning up only 19-19.5 gr of H296. My 300/221 has a 12" barrel. It's certainly up to the task of killing varmints, including coyotes. I also feel quite comfortable using it to deer hunt at 200-225 yards, given the RIGHT circumstances. I killed two deer w/ it last year at 197 and 115 yards, a single shot for each. Granted, I had a great rest, had lasered the range beforehand, was in a very wide powerline, and had broadside presentations, but it CAN be done. Used the 125 gr NBT on first deer and 130 gr Hornady SSP on second deer. Either bullet would work quite well on varmints. I'd suggest giving serious thought to the 300/221. Just wish you were nearby so you could try mine.... Gary T.

Stinkeypete,
ref. "As for the .357 Maximum- in this offering, a custom barrel is vastly superior to the factory's."

This is very true as it applies to the toilet bowl they put in them for a throat.

But since there are quite a few .357 Mag. 10" barrels floating around that go pretty cheap, rechambering is an excellent option, and when done correctly with a good throat, the factory barrels can be exceptionally accurate. They just need the chance to do it.

Best choice is one of the older .357 Mag. barrels with a short throat in it. This gives the best results since the throat in the subsequent .357 Max. chamber is all new.

Rechambering the newer vintages of .357 Mag. barrels with the same toilet bowl as TC has put in all of the .357 Maximums from day one so far as I know leaves about .1" of the old "throat" in the barrel in front of the Max. chamber. While not ideal, with a throat cut ahead of it, these barrels still shoot very well, much better than the factory Max. barrels, and I do a lot of them.

Fact is that right now I am doing a batch of Max. rechambers..... so if anyone here is waiting for one from me, it will probably leave next week.

I am not much of a 10" barrel fan in general, but of all the cartridges for use in a 10" barrel, the .357 Maximum has always struck me as one of the very best. It is an excellent Contender round in any length of barrel, and chambered right it is exceptionally accurate.

For varmint type performance, I believe it is a 140 gr. HP that Hornady makes that when stoked up thinks it's a Sierra Blitz or Hornaday SX.

I have done a lot of .357 Max. chambers over the years and am still impressed by it. As indicated above, none of the rounds for the distances indicated are quiet, but how the Max. is loaded, as noted, makes a big difference.

web page

Mike

Pshooter:
Developing this switch barrel has tought me a lot. I think it will take different scopes based on similar trajectories. I have concentrated on the smaller bores ie MKIV, 17 Rem, 223, the bullet impact on all 3 is ok rt to left the 2 seventeens are less than half inch different at 100yds, but 223 40gr at 3030fps is right on rt to left. but I have to turn scope 35 clicks down to get buller impact to that of the 17's. I believe this is due to recoil raising the gun off the bag before the bullet is out of the barrel. The more I learn, the more reasons I have shoot, this may take years

Mike, I'm with you 100%, except for the availability of the .357 barrels. I've not had luck finding one.

As for a "micro wisp" of dacron- go to the sewing store, or sneak in to your wife's sewing closet, and get dacron quilting fiber or pillow fiber. Cut 1/4 x 1/4 inch squares. Pull the squares apart until you have a little wisp of tangled threads such that you say "Hmmm- I doubt that is big enough." Should work fine. Stuff it on top of the powder with a small dowel. Turn the case over, and see if the powder falls out, with a few gentle taps.

Apparently some folks have had trouble using dacron wads, and now the practice is officially a no-no. I have had no trouble with it, but my guns, I take responsiblility.... well whatever. It ain't like a shotgun wad, is the point. More like a spider's web.

I got this idea from Paco, who's writings are an all around bad influence on me. http://www.sixgunner.com/paco/

Pete

MIKE ?? so tell me..
my old barrel,that your rechambering too the max,
is a old style 6 groove,, is it a short throat ??
will you be able too cutt out all of the factory throat ??
next week ?? im really looking forward to it comeing home.
p.s. im going down to noel missouri soon,am really looking forward to calling howard,n' maybe,just maybe,get him to show me his .222 ??
buckweet

I would go with a 221 Fireball, 30 Herret, 357 Herret, or 7mm TCU. The 221 Fireball with a 40gr V Max would be the one I pick first

Hey guys, If you don't mind, I'd like to change my "one gun answer." My response was addressing the idea of a "dual purpose" round for both varmint hunting and occasional deer hunting. The first part of Alpo's question, which I neglected, asks for a 10", quiet, Contender barrel for varmint/coyote hunting inside 100 yards. For this application, I'd recommend the 221 Fireball; second place would go to 17 MK IV or 22 K-Hornet. Gary T.

Thanks Everyone,
Haven't had a chance to read these posts until this morning. Thanks for some interesting answers. I realize that no 10" or 14" bbl is gonna be "quiet". I'm just looking at which centerfire barrel suitable for coyotes and maybe deer has the least amount of muzzleblast. I just haven't shot that many chamberings to find out what I want to know.

I rabbit hunt with my 10" 45/410 and its not quiet, but with 3/4oz of #6 or #7-1/2 pushed by 16 grains of h110 it isn't that bad for shooting without muffs or plugs while hunting.

IMHO, the muzzle blast really comes down to powder capacity. If you are burning 20 grs or less of powder, then it isn't too bad in a 10" tube, wether it be a 300 whisper, 357 max or 44 mag. If you're burning 30 grs of powder in a 10" tube, IMHO it is a waste. I had a 357 Herrett and it had no balistic advantage over a 357 max in a 10" tube, but muzzleblast and recoil was noteably greater. I know a few folks mentioned the 221 fireball, but I see that as a marginal choice for coyote's at 150 yds, and unsuitable for whitetails at that distance.

For bottleneck rounds, you want something that will push a 120-125 gr bullet 2200 fps, and there are quite a few choices that do that in 6.5mm, 7mm and 30 cal on a .223, shortened 30/30, 41 mag or 44 mag case.. Or you could go with a 357 max and launch a 180 gr cast @ 2000 fps, or 125 gr hp's @ ?? 2400 fps ??

Thanks Paul,
Best explanation I've heard yet!!

Hmmm,A quiet round for a 10" contender,,staying below the sound barrier would be a good start. You mentioned .45 colt,,,Loaded with a 250grn cast bullets going 900-950 fps should do what you want inside of 100yds.Heck,,,just throwing a 250grn bullet at something could knock it into next week. Happy Shooting!!!