Well, the cost-is-no-object VVCG 21.5" .375/.338 Win Mag. hand-lapped, matte blued chrome-moly octagon Encore barrel w/Mike Belm's chamber and machined-in muzzle brake showed up today. Although it took a little longer than originally expected to get, it appears that it was well worth the wait. Aesthetically, it's FLAWLESS,

...and the Leupold 1.5x5 in Warne QR rings looks just right. The combination of the octagon barrel and the machined in brake looks extremely mean. I would post pictures but my digital camera seems to be malfunctioning so I'll have to fall back on actual film...I should have some real photos sometime next week.

The combination of VVCG/Bellm metalworking is really something - you guys should figure out a way to work together more often... Many thanks to both of you for a really outstanding piece of work.

Mark Dumais

[ 10-08-2002, 08:50: Message edited by: Mark Dumais ]

Thanks, Mark. I'm anxious to see the completed gun myself. The barrel has "killer" written all over it.

REF. VVG, I saw a lot of potential, but I am just too much of a maverick for VVG..... maybe any other shop for that matter.

Sorry about the delays on completion. Just have fun with it, and get the camera working for dead critter pix, too.

Mike

Mark,
Glad to hear you like the work.(that we did) I think that a barrel should first be able to shoot, but also be a work of art. Remember some peoples ideas of art are vastly different. I would like to see compleated pictures sometime.
Dave

Mike,
You are right. There are/were a lot of areas for team work, but sometimes you can be a bit much for my tastes. (If that doesn't leave the door open for a flame war I don't know what does.)
I don't mean any disrespect by it, but I think even you admitted you can be (fill in blank) for most shops.(maybe just me!) If my calculations are correct I think we are the only shop that is on speaking terms.
Dave

[ 10-08-2002, 09:48: Message edited by: V.V. Dave ]

Mark -
No offense, but that "long warm shower" comment just lost you several points and will add another year or two to my counciling.

Thanks alot!
steve

Ah, another quote from "Heartbreak Ridge"

"This doesn't mean we are going to be swapping spit or taking long warm showers together until the wee hours of the morning"

"Get rid of that, "I just popped the neighbor's dog look on your face!"

"I can put a round through a flea's ass at 200 meters"

Gunny Tom Hiway



Regards

Headstamp -
Thanks! I couldn't remember where I had heard that before. Now I can pass it on to the shrink.

steve

Mark,
Don't worry. Mike and I play nice. I think we have agreed to disagree on certain points. Other points I wholeheartly agree with him on.

If you really want to get down and dirty I even have/had the same relationship with Justin. I had a few comments that I made that one might not be compelled to say to their boss. In my defense, I wanted what was best for the customer.

Dave

Davey, me lad, you know I like you. You remind me too much of my own kid to not like you! You even have a (ooops, refine the language time) "feces" eatin' grin like my kid.... formerly the used car salesman, but now the top Kia salesman in the country for August this year. Excuse the bragamony.

I would have liked to have been a mouse in the corner at VVG when some of the fertilizer hit the ventilator over events surrounding GBO. I'll bet Steve, Justin, and Jeff were fuming, but what was I to do? Things were not as they were being presented, and I caught it. Whether it was deliberate or not, you, collectively, should know that you can't slip much past me. That is just the way I am.

And Jeff taking the stand he did on oversize hinge pins no doubt was gasoline on the fire.

1) I work for the shooter and no other. That is where my loyalty remains, foremost. I won't cover for anyone, and that is just the way it is. I spoke the truth about the sterling work you guys do, and I also stayed true to form and objectively reported deficiencies. If the head shed can't deal with the sword cutting both ways, too bad.

2) Lots of folks take strong exception to me on a personal level, BUT, BIG BUT, on the technical end, how many times am I attacked?

"Speaking terms?" VVG's pricing and discounting policies effectively said, "We're not talking." Steve and I may be conversant where we have any unfinished business to attend to, but that is about as far as the conversation goes.

If Steve could keep orders straight better than he did with me and there was enough margin for me to work with using your barrels, we could crawl under the sheets again, and I think all parties would win.... VVG, the shooters WE work for, and me.

But it is "their bar of soap" and they (VVG) can wash with it wherever and however they want.

I think personally that we have all lost something by not continuing the relationship as it was with my using your barrels. But life goes on, and I have plenty of work to do... too much for present circumstances anyway. So it is just as well. I really don't need VVG barrels to keep me occupied.

In the end, Mark's barrel will likely acrue even more value since it will most likely remain a definite "one of a kind."

In the future, I can still hope that there can be a business relationship between me and VVG, but I strongly doubt that will ever happen, which I think is unfortunate for everyone.

So.... that said.... am I on speaking terms with anyone in the TC related industries? Don't think so. Not really.

I remain cordially,
THE TC Heretic

Mark,
I don't think I could throw a golf ball and hit Mike at 500 yrds. Oh wait I think you mean something else....
Maybe we can working something out with Mike. I guess I will have to run it though Jeff.

Dave

[ 10-09-2002, 10:07: Message edited by: V.V. Dave ]

Well, Mike and I are two very hard headed, opinionated people. I think we both know and accept that. I don�t have any problems with you Mike. Of course, you and I butt heads once in a while, but all in all I think we both have the same interests at heart.

I don�t want to see the relationship dissolve. I think we can do each other some good in the long run, and I think there�s a good future for our relationship. You have a lot of credibility with the folks around here and we have the means to supply you with the materials you need to work with. In the end, we will probably be able to work something out.

Of course, golf balls at 500 yards does sound fun.

Golf -
There goes the neighborhood.


steve

I heard about a golf ball barrel for a contender awhile back, it was a smoothbore and used a blank cartridge to launch golf balls.........maybe this is what they intend to use in the 500 yard golf ball duel??

The barrel you are refering to used a 44 mag cartridge. I don't remember what the propellant was. He had a smooth bore tube threaded on to the end of a Contender pistol. He'd drop a golf ball in there and POW!

I don't remember, but I think it was the same guy that used howlitzer charges to launch bowling balls mortar style.

It's a strange world.

[ 10-09-2002, 19:47: Message edited by: V.V. Jeff ]

Jeff,
Now those were some encouraging words in regard to future business relationships between us.

Speaking of going the distance, I guess you saw what I did with the .22 cal. "step barrel" you folks put together for me using my Hart barrel blank. Let's make our duel one of splitting bullets at 660 yards like we did at the Bower Clinic in Alliance, NE last May.

Hitting the edge of an angle iron and splitting a bullet at that distance in about a 25-30 mph cross wind is a pretty good test of man and machine.

Hard headed? You? Me? Really? Where did you get that idea?

Goes with the age, Jeff. Ready for this? Now when I was your age.......

Seriously, I was VERY reluctant to accept sage advice from peers "back when I was your age." I had to learn the hard way, choke now and then, and admit I made a mistake. We all make them, and the mistake itself is small change compared to what you do about the mistake. Mistakes never come cheap, either. Some can be pretty devastating and financially fatal.

Neither of us is perfect. Neither of us will get all the marbles. But the two of us could have a lot of satisfaction providing some really neat stuff like Mark's .375 to our well deserving following who expect only the best we have to offer.

It has been my goal for a number of years now to educate shooters in some of the black secret art of guns, barrels, chambers, dies, etc. There is a lot of BS and myth floating around that just does not hold water when you put it to the test. Gun rag writers are often dumber 'n a box of rocks about their subject and perpetuate the same myths they grew up with like you and I did reading what was written before.

Without getting too far off on a potential tirade here, let me suggest that the old addage, "The devil is in the details...." really applies. It is all the little details that will eat your lunch. You have to be more productive than I am by nature, but in the process of putting more emphasis on being productive, little things slip past your attention and bite you in the butt. The cumulative effect of which can get really costly.

We live in a somewhat tenuous world, you and I, catering to an ever changing clientel in a politically unfavorable climate. I do not have all the answers as to how best to survive in this climate, but close adherence to quality with a "ZERO COMEBACK" policy, I feel, will go a lot further in the long run than chasing the $$ today to keep the wolf away from the door.

Zero Comeback is not possible, but as a mindset, it will bring your warranty work costs way, way down. It is not how much you make, but how much you can keep. I made a lot of money in Salt Lake City, but for the 10 years there, kept very little.

If I may, let me refer to a neighbor of yours up north in Salt Lake City, Guy Malmborg. For all the years I have known and worked back and forth with Guy on a lot of projects, and for all the people I have referred to him, I cannot recall a single incident where anyone has had anything bad to say about him as a person or anything bad about his work. He is a good one to study. Neither you nor I can claim such a record as his. He is simply an outstanding person and a real stickler for details and craftsmanship. Maybe that is why he is about the only one "in the trade" that I do have a good relationship with. In fact it is an outstanding relationship and regard Guy as one of my very best longstanding friends. That relationship has benefitted both of us and an untold number of shooters, the real goal.

Thanks for the exchange, and I do hope that in the future we can come to a better understanding and working relationship.

Mike Bellm