I have ordered barrels through every custom barrel maker now with the exception of SSK. My experiences in ordering have been all over the map. Some transactions are perfect, some not so perfect, and others down right awful.

From what I have seen all of the custom barrel makers out there are capable of building barrels that shoot sub-moa. I have never in fact had one that would not. I think that they are all great gunsmiths. It seems that the problems that I have had have been in two areas.

1.) Being promised deadlines that are not kept.
2.) Not receiving what I ordered.

Dealing with the first problem is not terribly difficult in my eyes. If you don�t know when a barrel will be done just tell me. I will do business with someone who tells me it will take a year to get a barrel if I get the barrel in a year. I probably will not do business again with someone who says it will take a month only to receive my barrel 4 months later. Generally this scenario also includes repeated phone calls and hearing �it will ship out this Friday�. Honesty is the best policy.

The second problem is a little more involved but can be remedied. I will be the first one to tell you that I am not a gunsmith. Other that high school shop class I have never machined anything in my life. I am however in the information gathering business. I�m a computer programmer and my job is basically to create software that gathers and stores information. It seems that most of the problems I have are mistakes that have anything to do with gunsmithing, they are simply errors in communication. Incorrect barrel length, wrong finish, wrong taper� All of these manufacturers have websites but none seem really to take advantage of it. It is not that big of an expense to add a web page to any of these sites to gather all the details that the gunsmith needs. There is a small cost involved in storing this data, but in the scheme of things it�s not very much money. In fact in most cases this will save the manufacturer money in the form of time saved from phone conversations to gather this data as well as time and money spent correcting the problems that could have been avoided.

Just my thoughts.

David Hea

It seems like there was some trolling mean, unsympathetic,backbiting, nasty, troublemaking, ugly, ignoramous that was saying the same things awhile back.

Where is that nogood, lowlife, MePlat the Horrible?

Dalton, David or whatever: Do me a favor and go back and read what I said in my posts under Mike Bellm is a Jerk. I have not recently edited any of them just immediately after I posted them. You will not see where I jumped on Mike Bellm at all I just stated my opinion of him. Due to the others going ape and thinking I was going to lay down for a beating becaused I made a statement I retaliated. Me an outcast? I don't care if I did I would have echoed the feelings the rest of you have. I would have voted for sainthood for Bellm. Also I said custom gunsmiths not just Bellm.
Before you cast me out just think about what I have said about most of the guys doing custom work and tell me honestly if I was wrong.
Their greed to either gain fame or money causes most of them to overload their behinds with work which causes most of us to suffer.
AM I REALLY WRONG? OR IS IT I JUST DON'T MIND TO TAKE HEAT FROM A GROUP OF GUYS THAT THINKS ONE INDIVIDUAL IS THE GREATEST THING SINCE THE INVENTION OF THE WHEEL EVEN WHEN I DON'T THINK SO AND SPEAK OUT ABOUT IT WHICH IS MY RIGHT. EVIDENTALLY MY OPINION SHOULD BE KEPT TO MYSELF.

You are correct sir.

Just let it go.

If you want a ranking of timeliness, I will not say who is not so good about meeting deadlines or promises about that, but in my experience it is not an uncommon problem. What I will say is that if you want fast and well done, there is one place I know you can get that, and that is SSK - I had a .309 JDJ rechamber back in my hands 3 weeks after I mailed it from Alaska. I have barrels from 3 or 4 other people and they are all well done, but JD's outfit gets the job both done right and done fast. I don't necessarily agree with JD's approach to some things, but I have to give him credit on this one.

I aggree Rob. Even though I don't get anymore work from them SSK has the fastest turn around time of anyone.

I'll chime in here. You mentioned three week turnaround on a rechamber. This process takes significantly less time than starting from a raw blank. I'm curious as far as how long does it take SSK to make a barrel from scratch. One more thing about SSK I read somewhere that they outsource a lot of there barrel making and other services. As far as timelines go I am not in a hurry whenever I order a barrel so don't generally ask how long a project will take. The important thing is that when I get it it is as ordered and is accurate. Because in the end it doesn't matter what the time frame was it only matters how it performs. Jusy my .02.

Outlawsix,
I had a barrel from one maker that took 7 months from the time I sent the rather significant $ to build it. From another, I had a barrel take 4 months and then came in blued instead of stainless, although the order slip that came with it explicitly stated it was stainless. Had to wait 2-3 more months to get the right bbl.
How sure are you that a rechamber doesn't take as long. I believe SSK will have the blanks made and ready to ream when they get the order. Yes, some work may be outsourced, but that is inconsequential if the quality control is there, and with SSK I would say it is as good as anywhere else.
Here I am defending JD which is an interesting turn.

On my return trip from a hog hunt we stopped by SSK to drop off a Encore JD loaned a buddy. While there I decided to order a 300 Whipser. The barrel was drilled and tapped with a scope base and was ready before I left. My buddy ordered a custom 500 S&W barrel with all the bells and whistles. He recieved the barrel LESS than 6 weeks later and it was done RIGHT. I've owned barrels from other custom barrel makers and all I own now are the ones made by SSK.

[ 07-24-2003, 15:39: Message edited by: JD HHI 6092 ]

David,
If you take a close look at all the parameters involved in actual custom orders, not simply pulling something well under way off the shelf and cutting a chamber or drilling and tapping, etc., you will find it is impossible to be all and do all for everyone.

When you consider all the barrel blank variables, for example, and have to rely on deliveries from someone else, there is no control over the process. I have waited over 13 months for a measley order for 100 barrel blanks.... all common calibers and twists, nothing exotic at all.

Speaking of communication, when the time spent in communication is factored into the cost of a barrel, the price goes up substantially, and the delivery time gets stretched out even longer, especially from smaller shops.

Much of what has been discussed here using SSK as an example is not really "custom" in the true sense..... more like semi-production. Come up with some of the exotic stuff and the time frame gets stretched again, IF SSK will even take it on.

Of the custom makers, I will say that SSK does hold basic external tolerances better than the other two principle shops, but the chamber dimensions are usually larger than what one should hope for, I think, in truly custom work. The chambers are more like factory chambers, not custom crafted chambers.

I personally feel that for the money, one should be getting better chamber dimensions if you are going to call it "custom." The only thing "custom" is the price.

My goal is first and foremost to avoid the bickering and snivelling that goes on with "custom" work, even under ideal conditions.

I feel what needs to be done is to produce the same barrels you now have to pay premium prices for, shelve them, and sell from inventory.... no wait at all. Here is the sku, point and click, or send a check or money order.

A barrel you pay nearly $500 for now should be about 1/2 to 2/3 that amount.

This is a "fishing expedition." I am actively working toward such a production operation with existing manufacturers, have come up against some dead ends, but have some definite possibilities lined up. If anyone listening is interested in getting into barrel manufacturing on a production basis, please contact me. mike@bellmtcs.com One way or another, I intend to make it happen. There are too many things about the existing TC barrel scenario that simply are not quite right, and "custom" barrel work will never be right all the way. It can't be.

It will always be a compromise, compounded by the "I want" demand syndrome of a relatively small percentage of buyers who muck up the works and make it bad for the more civil, patient folks.

I do appreciate your interest in trying to make sense of the custom barrel scenario and offer positive input to help make it better. Something DOES need to be done on a number of fronts.

Over the past couple weeks I have spent a lot of time at the hospital and nursing home, a forced sabbatical from everything except filling accessories orders, and have had quite a bit of time to mull a lot of things over at a distance. Yep.... we need some changes.

Mike