I see VV discussed all the time but little about Fred at Bullberry. I have gotten a 3 inch forearm and and pistol grip from them and they are first class. I talked with Fred about rechambing a barrel I have and learned quite a bit. We are lucky to have so many first class workmanship for our contender's. Hands up to all of them.
The walnut contender carbine stock set that Fred's shop built exceeded my expectations. Shipped on the day it was promised. Must say I enjoyed my conversation with Fred when I first ordered the stock set.
Just ordered a 20" 6mm Bullberry barrel the other day. Fred did not answer the phone but he was within yelling distance. My questions were relayed and I could hear him yell back a reply. Kinda made me chuckle. I was told that it would be 4 months. Thats fine with me since I have other projects on the front burner. Was suprised to find out that Bullberry and VVCG are next door to each other.
I have no barrels done by Fred but I do have 2 stocks and forends for my Contender that he did and they are 2nd. to none. Fred does very nice woodwork and his prices are very good to.
Jules, I have heard that Bullberry makes all the barrels for EA Brown. Brown just chambers, drill & taps, install sights, finishes & etc....
I will say that the 10" 41 Magnum barrel that EA Brown made for me is a real winner!! I shot several groups in the .5" range at 100 yards with it a couple of weeks ago! This with a reload using Remingtons 210JSP!! I have always had better accuracy from the Sierra's, so one day soon i am gonna give them a try.....just might get em all touchin if i do my part!
Posts: 1574 | Location: Western Pennsylvania | Registered: 12 September 2002
Cas, I think Bullberry turns out as good of product as any in woodwork. But like I said, I never had one of there barrels so I can't comment. This aint the pond now
Mike, Fred uses Wilson blanks and I think EA Brown uses Shilen and they might come from VVCG,but I don't know for sure.
Hi Guy's I had Fred build me a 14" .357 Herrett Barrel a few years ago. I also got the forend from him. I have no complaints what so ever! The barrel is the one I use mainly for my hunting elk with. That is until I got my .308 Bellm. I would not hesitate to order a barrel from Fred at all. The one he did for me will do alot better then I!! And it has accounted for some elk!!!
I have a 20" bull .223 barrel from Bullberry as well as a stock and forearm. The forearm and stock are english and black walnut and are exceptional quality. The .223 barrel is the same. I just ordered an 11" .17 hmr for my contender. I have no doubt the quality will be the same as I have experienced in the past.
Before the bashing starts (cas) . The makers and shakers such as V.V., Bullberry and Bellm and others make or re-make quality products. All of them have there good and bad days. We are fortunate enough that the good days far out shine the bad days and that some are here online to help us out.
Lets just keep it nice. Share the postive stories. Matter of fact I am also getting work done by VVCG and Bellm. My carbine project will have Bullberry wood, VVCG barrel blank, and a Bellm Chamber Do you think the rifle will break out in a rash
Got a comment about what has been interpreted as "bashing." Until folks see it with their own eyes and have it demonstrated in a lucid manner, facts may sound like bashing.
Hence, I post little fact about what I observe anymore. You have been given the facts, and those that choose to ignore them are welcome to stay in the dark. The rest are invited to come up here for a visit and see first hand.
Understand your sport and enjoy it more. That is the way I look at it.
Mike
Posts: 791 | Location: Grants Pass, OR USA | Registered: 30 March 2002
OK, Here it goes, I've got two S/S barrels from BullBerry a 10" Hornet that I ordered through the T/C list(good shooter) and a 12" 357-44 B&D that I got in a trade(very little use)........upon firing the B&D I noticed a mark on my brass and dicsovered that a ring/groove in the chamber was causing it, barrel also unlocked when fired(dies adj. according to Mike B's method)and I'd also lost a forend lug(my fault) anyway, I contacted Fred and sent the barrel to him for inspection, he looked it over and sent me an email saying that he is making me a brand new barrel How about that? Great looking, Great shooting barrels, and unbeatable customer service! Yep, I'll buy another one! Mark
Posts: 414 | Location: Western NC | Registered: 07 April 2002
You guys got me confused now. Are you saying that you aren't interested in negative reports on some barrel makers? If I am understanding you right, then others may end up with the same problems that could have beeen avioded. If I'm not understanding you correctly please advise me where I lost you.
Rich Jake
Posts: 1213 | Location: Middletown NY USA | Registered: 11 March 2002
I presently have 4 Bullberry barrels. I want more!~ They are all very accurate. MUCH better than factory T/C barrels. I am very satisfied. BTW, I too heard that Bullbery makes the barrels for Ebon Brown. If that is true, make that 5 Bullberry's. That gun from Ebon Brown is the most accurate one I own! I'd like to have a dozen of them. I have my very first Virgin Valley barrel on the way. It's a contender carbine in 219 Donaldson Wasp. It was sold to me as new-unfired from M&M Trading Post. I look forward to doing a side by side with the 219 Donaldson wasp pistol barrel from Bullberry. "let the games begin" Lefty
Ok.. nice... I've owned, shot, handeld T/C, V.V. , SSK, Belm and Bullberry barrels. Only had problems (shoddy workmanship and customer service problems) with ONE of those companies.
Posts: 723 | Location: Ny | Registered: 17 March 2002
Rich Jake, I am not saying that you or anyone else should not post poor experiences that they have had with barrel makers. What I am saying is that in the past people have taken the small amount of bad experiences and harped on them as if they were the norm with that maker. I suppose it is human nature to do this. Of the makers and re-makers we normally talk about here and other places. Not one of them has a perfect record. They all have been bashed about from time to time. However, if I were to take all this as gospel and not factor in personality conflicts and such. I would never buy another T/C barrel again. I would have to go back to my trusty daisy BB gun. Then again, I suppose there are people out there that don't like those either.
I started this thread and my idea was to point out how many choices we have and the fact that we are lucky to have great workmanship available to us from many craftmen. If someone has had a negative experience we all want to know. If its sour grapes we also can make up our own minds. Some people have problems with everything but most of us don't.
I agree with you Tommy, and everyone makes mistakes. Now I really don't know how many mistakes are within reason as far as making them percentage wise. IMO, anymore then 5% is not good quality control. I'm not saying that it's OK to screw up 5 out of 100 barrels or stocks or anything else for that matter but that is my limit before I go elsewhere. The biggest thing is how and how long did it take to correct the mistake. If you paid for a product and it's not up to par, the place you got it from should repair or replace it in a timely manner since they already have your money and you got shit.
A combination of quality product and good customer service will be the key to sorting out the industry. I know how I have been treated by some. I will aline my loyalities with the business that treats me with respect and appreciate's me as a customer.
While I own a Bullberry barrel & it shoots accurate enough. I had customer service problems with Bullberry & Fred's lack of sense when it came to my situation puts me in the catagory of I WILL NEVER BUY ANYTHING FROM HIM EVER AGAIN. What he did was dishonest & attempted to make light of it afterwards. Then it was everybodys fault except his own. What angers me is that he made me go out of my way to prove him wrong. If he just said it's my error How can I fix this, I wouldn't be near as angry as I am. Also a timely apology would have helped as well. My only suggestion to all of you concerning Bullberry is Make sure that your order is filled to your liking before excepting the order & firing your barrel. By the way I have ordered from SSK & T/C. Both were tops in customer service. The only one that I personally had a problem with was Bullberry.
Rich Jake
Posts: 1213 | Location: Middletown NY USA | Registered: 11 March 2002
Like I said above I have the .223 carbine barrel from Bullberry and am currently waiting for the .17 HMR right now. I also have a .444 and a .308 Bellm. Both rechambers from Mike. I am currently waiting on another barrel from Mike right now in .357 Maximum. I also have a few T/C barrels but none from there custom shop.
I have never had the opportunity to have a Virgin Valley barrel yet. I am sure I will when the right deal comes along. The same goes for SSK too. Both companies have outstanding reputations.
I suppose I have been one of the lucky ones. I've owned and traded many barrels like most of you out there. I just haven't had any customer service or product problems dealing with T/C items. I know my time is probably coming but for now I will just smile and count my blessings.
funny this thread is going on at this time. I just got back from the range and while I was thier the usual "What are you Shootin" comes up and when they saw my Bullberry and Bellm stuff 4 of the guys had to just "PAW" the Bullberry stuff, But the Bellm rechamber got a LESS than Welcome response. to this I was suprised! It is usually Some love Fred and Some hate him..But this time the Bellm Bashing started. So I guess it has nothing to do with the BRAND. I have had at one time or another all my barrel makers bashed. So I will just continue to buy from the Fastest Turnaround and the ones I like the most UNLESS it is something I must get from someone I dont like! Then I guess I just Grin and Bear it. To me....7 Months is too long for a Barrel or Barrel work..... And anything over $300.00 for a Pistol lenght barrel is too much......If I get something less than I paid for and the Service is bad....No More of my money will go thier unless they are the Only game in town....And that IS NOT the situation with TC stuff. And for my Money Fred and TC have been the best. I must say Bellm Has done EXCELLENT work for me. But I refuse to Thrash someone in a forum..for thier is ALWAYS TWO sides to every story and sometimes Personalities and EGOS hide the truth. I guess it would be easier if we could hear the OTHER side of the story??? But it is VEry Nice to be able to Voice an Opinion in a newsgroup WITHOUT Feeling like you will be BANNED for it or Crucified by some UNKNOWEGABLE but loyal follwers trying to suck up the the Webmaster.
I remember it form the pond Rich, and I think it sucks. Were you told that nothing could be done cause you already shot it? Like I said, all I bought from Fred is a Stock and forend for my Contender and it looks great and the price was outstanding. The other Bullberry set I bought used. It's also very nice. I had Mark at Virgin Valley refinish it for me and it looks good.
Guys Don't want to give you the wrong impression. I have never delt with Fred when it concerns wood. Since I had a bad go around with him on a barrel, I wouldn't even think about ordering anything else from him. I will also give him his due the barrel in question is ACCURATE. I just wish he hadn't tried to make me the bad guy when he messed up.
It is kinda a shame as well. Fred does offer quite an array of calibers & I probably would have been a return customer if he hadn't goofed. I can except a mistake, we are all human & it happens. I just have a problem when someone does something on the border line of dishonest.
Rich Jake
Posts: 1213 | Location: Middletown NY USA | Registered: 11 March 2002
quote:Originally posted by Rich Jake: Guys Don't want to give you the wrong impression. I have never delt with Fred when it concerns wood. Since I had a bad go around with him on a barrel, I wouldn't even think about ordering anything else from him. I will also give him his due the barrel in question is ACCURATE. I just wish he hadn't tried to make me the bad guy when he messed up.
It is kinda a shame as well. Fred does offer quite an array of calibers & I probably would have been a return customer if he hadn't goofed. I can except a mistake, we are all human & it happens. I just have a problem when someone does something on the border line of dishonest.
Rich Jake
Rich I would say If I had someone who took my Hard Earned money for for a custom barrel and was dishonest about it?? I would NEVER DO BUSSINESS with them again!! I would be in the same boat you are. fireball
quote:Originally posted by Jules: I believe that Dave Van Horn helped Fred in getting started in custom barrel work while Fred was making the stocks for Van Horn.
Fred camped on my doorstep until I made the first dozen barrels for him. He learned enough to strike out on his own when I told him he would have to wait until we got fixtures made before I would make any more barrels. (Conventional mill set ups take too long to be cost effective.)
He was already making stocks when he first contacted me, begging for carbine length barrels so he could peddle wood.
What happened after my dealings with Fred, I do not know. As I recall, he had already been in contact with Van Horn before I got involved with him. So if Van Horn had any influence, it is most likely either to do with wood before my part in the saga or Van Horn may have helped him over the hump between what he learned from me and what his son Greg needed to get going on the barrels.
What I find interesting is the fact that Greg was down in the trenches making barrels for Fred while Fred was still working as a Las Vegas fireman, yet when it came time for Greg to have some say in the business, Fred told him he'd have to buy in. From the outside looking it, it appears Fred had no gratitude for the important role his son, Greg, had in getting him going in the barrel business...... and no more gratitude than he had for the role I played, either. As I see it, Fred is out for Fred and Fred only. So that is where ill will from me comes from.
As for above reports of people bad mouthing me, I don't doubt that one bit. Some have valid reasons stemming from past business problems, but most everyone who swallows TC factory stuff hook, line, and sinker hates my guts, which I take as a compliment since there is no way on God's green earth I can condone what TC puts out.
Ie., I am glad for the distinction and don't want to be identified with TC's level of workmanship or designs at all, thank you.
Mike Bellm
Posts: 791 | Location: Grants Pass, OR USA | Registered: 30 March 2002
I should add that anyone who has any beef with me over anything I have done for them gains absolutely nothing complaining to anyone but me. I am the only one who can help them and am glad to do so. So next time someone has a beef to air, just tell them to contact me. Makes sense, doesn't it?
Mike
Posts: 791 | Location: Grants Pass, OR USA | Registered: 30 March 2002
I don't know what to say Cas, other then it really sucks. I know where your coming from buddy. But hopefully your problem was taken care of in a timely manner.
I ordered a 10" 218 mashburn bee during a Bullberry shorty sale a couple years back. The delivery was double what was originally quoted, but I'm willing to wait for quality work.
Despite trying 5 different componet bullets, 4 powders, and 3 different primers, there were precious few loads that would print 3 shots under 1" at 100 yds. There was also damage on the rear of the barrel where it appears that it was dropped on a concrete floor.
I did trade the barrel off, and for what I paid at the shorty sale, came out ahead.
One barrel isn't a fair sample of a companies product, but considering many of us will buy but one or two barrels from a company, we expect them to be good. I also don't expect to have to send barrels back, especially after having to wait several months for delivery.
I'm anxious to see how VV's work stacks up, as I ordered a tube from their shorty sale.
Posts: 7213 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 27 February 2001
Hey Paul. Just out of curiousity. Why didn't you send the barrel back to fred for a refund or replacement barrel? The accuracy wasn't as advertised and it was damaged as well. I realize that if he told you that it would be another 5 months I probably wouldn't have waited either but I would have asked for a refund.
Bullberry made a .17 CCM 23 inch for a contender....told me it would take 4 months and I got in just about that time...very nice on the phone....excellent help....very nice barrel....Good Company
Posts: 93 | Location: Evart Mich USA | Registered: 19 March 2002
quote:Originally posted by Fisher: Hey Paul. Just out of curiousity. Why didn't you send the barrel back to fred for a refund or replacement barrel? The accuracy wasn't as advertised and it was damaged as well. I realize that if he told you that it would be another 5 months I probably wouldn't have waited either but I would have asked for a refund.
I figured it would be easier for me to sell or trade the barrel, then to deal with Fred. I'd put a fair amount of time into load work, and just wanted to cut my losses and be done with it. I also felt that the 218 mashburn case didn't exactly offer what I'd thought it would, and I'd rather start over with a 221 Fireball.
Posts: 7213 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 27 February 2001
quote:Originally posted by Fisher: I realize that if he told you that it would be another 5 months I probably wouldn't have waited either but I would have asked for a refund.
That's where my troubles with Fred began, he definitely wasn't interested in refunding money even when he was wrong. Rich Jake
Posts: 1213 | Location: Middletown NY USA | Registered: 11 March 2002
I know this sounds like I am defending Fred. I am really not. I am more interested how people deal with situations compared to others. I also know that I probably don't know the whole story and will take some heat for saying this. But, remember what Mike said earlier about not going to the source about a problem.
quote:Mike:I should add that anyone who has any beef with me over anything I have done for them gains absolutely nothing complaining to anyone but me. I am the only one who can help them and am glad to do so. So next time someone has a beef to air, just tell them to contact me. Makes sense, doesn't it?
Mike has a good point. If the problem isn't aired with the person that can fix it. Is it really a valid complaint. That doesn't mean that problem didn't exist. It just mean that the seller didn't have the chance to correct it. Now whether he would have corrected it is a different question, but did he have the opportunity too. Maybe Paul or anyone elso for that matter just didn't want the hassle he expected from Fred and decided to take another path.
FireballBB: The ironic part of those guys at the range is that they probably never owned a Bellm barrel. They just read a post on the internet some where and parroted the opinions of others.
Rich I never heard what happened in your situation. SO believe it or not I won't comment on it.
God I know I'm going to get flamed for this post. Worse yet my next 3 barrels are going to be crap too. There goes my good luck with barels out the door.
quote:Originally posted by Fisher: I know this sounds like I am defending Fred. I am really not. I am more interested how people deal with situations compared to others. I also know that I probably don't know the whole story and will take some heat for saying this. But, remember what Mike said earlier about not going to the source about a problem.
quote:Mike:I should add that anyone who has any beef with me over anything I have done for them gains absolutely nothing complaining to anyone but me. I am the only one who can help them and am glad to do so. So next time someone has a beef to air, just tell them to contact me. Makes sense, doesn't it?
Mike has a good point. If the problem isn't aired with the person that can fix it. Is it really a valid complaint. That doesn't mean that problem didn't exist. It just mean that the seller didn't have the chance to correct it. Now whether he would have corrected it is a different question, but did he have the opportunity too. Maybe Paul or anyone elso for that matter just didn't want the hassle he expected from Fred and decided to take another path.
FireballBB: The ironic part of those guys at the range is that they probably never owned a Bellm barrel. They just read a post on the internet some where and parroted the opinions of others.
Rich I never heard what happened in your situation. SO believe it or not I won't comment on it.
God I know I'm going to get flamed for this post. Worse yet my next 3 barrels are going to be crap too. There goes my good luck with barels out the door.
Well I see no reason your post would start a flame?? Do you?? I do know that two of the guys had Bellm rechambers. They were stamped. The problems they had with Bellm I felt were really NONE of my bus iness. I know one is a writer for a shooting club and a Magizine "I THINK" I just chose to Ignore and go about my business.....I usually get flak about my Bullberry stuff from a FEW of the SSK Guys..but then BULLBERRY Barrels Just OVERWHELM the shooting crowd I am with. And as far as SSK??? Nice barrels..Have ONE....WAY TOO MUCH MONEY for me. They shoot No Better than a VV or a Bullberry or a BEllm rechamber for that matter. This may bring some CRAP but MOST of my bullberry stuff is just a good as my SSK. FOR LESS MONEY. And about Guys Bashing Mike??? Hey Its NONE of My Business and regaurdless of which side...There is ALWAYS another side to the story ...But that does go both ways. So really WHO CARES???? Buy what you like. I have always had good luck with factory barrels Go figure! fireball
Fisher No flame war necessary the facts are as follows Barrel arrived Later than quote by a couple of weeks Fred was on safari. The barrel arrived with extractor that didn't work. I fixed it myself as it was already hunting season & I didn't want to send it back.
I then had a problem with blow by on the cases & I was concerned so I contacted Fred. I was told to ship the barrel Back with the ammo that I was firing. The ammmo that I sent was 45 colt 300 grain XTP's over 21 grains of 296 with large pistol primer. Hefty load but within safe levels in Speer #13 loading manual. I received the barrel back with a note saying that my loads had too much recoil, try these instead. He sent me 250 grain lead that clocked at about 750 fps, hardly an equivilent load. Never really answered if the loads that I was shooting were safe for the barrel. So I called him on the phone. He really couldn't answer that question. So I had to reach out to others who knew about contender barrels & told me I had nothing to worry about & it was normal.
Then shortly after that I find out that the barrel that I received from him measured 3/4" shorter than what was ordered. Contacted Fred about the fact that I had ordered a barrel 10" & I received a barrel 9 1/4" instead, also he had over charged for the barrel that he did ship. He had charged me for a barrel over 10" in length. So I requested a partial refund for the over charge.His response was "does the length of the barrel really matter?" It took 3 days of emails & I had to prove to him that he over charged. Including a fax copy of the receipt, Which he should have had on record in his office. In genaeral it was a real negative experience with Fred & Bullberry
Rich Jake
Posts: 1213 | Location: Middletown NY USA | Registered: 11 March 2002
![[Razz]](images/icons/tongue.gif){kind=icon}
![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon}
I shot several groups in the .5" range at 100 yards with it a couple of weeks ago! This with a reload using Remingtons 210JSP!! I have always had better accuracy from the Sierra's, so one day soon i am gonna give them a try.....just might get em all touchin if i do my part!
![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif){kind=icon}
![[Eek!]](images/icons/shocked.gif){kind=icon}
Do you think the rifle will break out in a rash ![[Confused]](images/icons/confused.gif){kind=icon}
![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif){kind=icon}
with respect and appreciate's me ![[Roll Eyes]](images/icons/rolleyes.gif){kind=icon}
to just "PAW" the Bullberry stuff, But the Bellm rechamber got a LESS than Welcome response. to this I was suprised! It is usually Some love Fred and Some hate him..But this time the Bellm Bashing started. So I guess it has nothing to do with the BRAND. I have had at one time or another all my barrel makers bashed.
