Paul, I would have to agree with Bobby and 50D..(as usual) Ive taken a few deer with my 15" .308 barrel and 130XLcs and moly coated 140XBTs. I have not lost a deer but the wound channels are smaller than what you see from the Xs when you send em several hundred fps faster. Ive found 165SSTs to do very well..but I dont push the ranges with that particular setup.