I noticed you both have rechambered .35's to the .358 jdj. Was this with or without muzzle brakes? I don't know whether to use a super 14 barrel or a 14" hunter. Do you have brakes on yours and would you do it different if you could do it over. Looks like you both like the cartridge. I am looking for something for an elk round. How does it do out to 200 yards? Anyone else got any better suggestions?
Vic, I have a brake on the 14 incher and I like it that way. Cuts way down on muzzle flip but it still kicks. I'm not saying you need a brake because I never shot one without it in a short barrel. That will be up to you. Most folks don't like them because of the noise. I also have one in a 20" bull carbine barrel without a brake. It's brutal after 20 or 30 rounds of full house 220gr. loads. Really tough on the shoulder after that. I think it's one of the best big bore calibers for a contender. Elk should not be any problem out to 250 yards or so. The Speer 220gr Soft point should do the job nicely as would the Nosler 225gr BT. The Hornady 180gr. Single Shot Pistol bullets would also be a good choise for large White tail and Mule deer. With the right load and proper bullet placement the 358JDJ will drop anything on earth.
Vic, It's a factory brake from TC as on there hunter barrels. All the Hunter and Super 14s are bull barrels. But I don't think you'll find a 14" Hunter barrel with open sights if you don't plan on scoping it. But then again, who knows?
I've pretty much the same thing to say as Jules. Mines a 14" Hunter with the T/C break. As a fatory 35 Rem it did fist sized groups. (I was still fairly new to the T/C then also) After the rechamber it does clover leafs without trying too hard. I shoot mostly Hornaday 180gr SSPB's though I have played with 150 rems and Speer 180's and Noslar 225's. At 200 yards the stubby 180's always seemed to open up to 4 to 7" groups depending on the day. Good enough for hunting, but disapointing compaired to what it does @ 100yards. I tried 225BT's hoping for better 200 yard grous, but they just didn't want to do anything special in my gun. 200 yard groups were only a little smaller, and the 100 yard groups didn't match the 180's. (???) So I went back to the 180's.
I haven't fired the 358JDJ without a break either. I have a 16" 309JDJ with no break, and don't feel it needs one. I think NOW, being a bit recoil hardend, I could handel the 358 without a break.... but see no reason to! When I first got it, I would have been in big trouble without the break. even with it, I was having thoughts like.. "what have I gotten myself into?" With no break it's thrust and muzzle rise/flip. With the long 16" barrel it's a longer smoother rise. I imagen the shorter barrels are more snap, twist and torque. With the muzzle break, it's JUMP and Thrust (with more concussion). It can startle you a tad at first, but you quickly get used to it.
People claim they're too loud with the break.... which I think is silly. They're ALL too loud, all the time, no mater what caliber or length, break or no. If you don't take measures to protect your hearing, long and short term, that's just stupid. A 14" scoped Contender is not the kind of gun you'll be using to jump shoot rabbits. There are very few surprises.
I have a break, and now after moving onto bigger things that make the 358's recoil seem light, if I were to do it over from scratch... I'd still get one with a break.
[ 01-24-2003, 04:16: Message edited by: cas ]
Posts: 723 | Location: Ny | Registered: 17 March 2002
I had a 358 JDJ without the break. I had no trouble shooting it and am fairly recoil insensitive in a handgun. I have a 308 Bellm rechamber of a 30-30 Hunter barrel. Marvelously accurate but I hate that break. It does reduce recoil but it is LOUD. Cas is right that they are all loud but, and this is a big but, when I have been on a covered firing line at the range anyone who shoots a brake is immediatly disliked by the guy next to him. It is really noticeable from there. I never subject anyone at the range to that 308 Bellm with the break. It is my choice not theirs to have it so they shouldnt have to bear it. If you shoot at a range and you dont want people to talk about ya leave the breaks off the line.
Posts: 15 | Location: Kansas | Registered: 18 January 2003
What type of velocity does the 20" carbine produce with 225 gr bullets? I still need a carbine barrel, and can't think of anything better then a 358X444.
Posts: 7213 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 27 February 2001
What type of velocity does the 20" carbine produce with 225 gr bullets? I still need a carbine barrel, and can't think of anything better then a 358X444.
Paul, Around 2500fps with the Nosler BTs maybe a little more but was sticky comming out. I was working on accuracy and did most of my testing with a Speer 180gr.FN. With 53.1 grs. of AA2460, I got 2565fps and 1 1/4" at 100. With the Speer 220gr.FSP I found that 51grs of AA2460 would give me 2405fps but the groups were under an inch.
Paul, I don't think the 358win. is bigger then a 444marlin after being sized to a 358JDJ. I get 2250fps using AA2520 out of a rechambered 14" barrel with a muzzle brake and that's only using 12 1/2" of barrel givin the brake takes up 1 1/2" of barrel. That's max in that barrel. I didn't work up a load with the 225 BT in the carbine but my guess would be around 2450fps would be about max. The load I tried in the 20" barrel that was sticky was from the AA2520 load I worked up for my 14" barrel. It wasn't sticky in the shorter barrel. BTW, The 358JDJ case is 1/4" longer then the 358win. SSK gives a max load of 55grs of 2520 behind a 200gr bullet. Accurate Arms has 49.5grs max in a 358win for the same weight bullet. Max load of 2520 in my 14" barrel is 54grs. for a 225 Nosler at 2225fps. 54grs of 2460 gives me 2250fps. I had to look at my data.
I had my 14" 35 rem barrel rechambered to 358JDJ about a year ago. It does not have a brake. At first the recoil was very impressive. But I have learned to handle it. With that said, It is not the barrel I grab when I want to shoot up alot of ammo in a short period of time. The data JD sent me is 180 gr.-2380 fps 200 gr.-2260 fps 220 gr.-2250 fps 225 gr.-2050 fps 250 gr.-1950 fps I am sure these are with a SSK barrel and not a rechamber. Lone Hunter
Posts: 210 | Location: Smithfield, NC, USA | Registered: 15 April 2002
quote:Originally posted by Lone Hunter: I had my 14" 35 rem barrel rechambered to 358JDJ about a year ago. It does not have a brake. At first the recoil was very impressive. But I have learned to handle it. With that said, It is not the barrel I grab when I want to shoot up alot of ammo in a short period of time. The data JD sent me is 180 gr.-2380 fps 200 gr.-2260 fps 220 gr.-2250 fps 225 gr.-2050 fps 250 gr.-1950 fps I am sure these are with a SSK barrel and not a rechamber. Lone Hunter
Lone Hunter, It has a bite to it for sure Have you clocked any of your loads?
I have a rechambered 14" with brake.35 Remington to the .358 JDJ and with the 180gr and the 225gr I get about 3" to 4" group at 200yds. I use reloader #7 in my gun and get 2565fps with 180gr Hornady and 2462fps with 225gr Sierra. We have taken a number of deer with this gun all the way out to 295yds.It not a bad gun to shot if you set it up right.I think it would work good on Elk at 200yds I would not go over a 200gr bullet to keep up the speed and if you need more killing power you could go with a Competitor or Encore pistol I have a Competitor Chamber for 375 JRS it will push a 260gr BT over 2600fps out of a 16" BBl
quote:Originally posted by Paul Dustin: I have a rechambered 14" with brake.35 Remington to the .358 JDJ and with the 180gr and the 225gr I get about 3" to 4" group at 200yds. I use reloader #7 in my gun and get 2565fps with 180gr Hornady and 2462fps with 225gr Sierra. We have taken a number of deer with this gun all the way out to 295yds.It not a bad gun to shot if you set it up right.I think it would work good on Elk at 200yds I would not go over a 200gr bullet to keep up the speed and if you need more killing power you could go with a Competitor or Encore pistol I have a Competitor Chamber for 375 JRS it will push a 260gr BT over 2600fps out of a 16" BBl
Wow! That's some very hot loads Paul. My primers would be flat and the fired case would be glued to the chamber long before I get that volocity.
Vic, I've had a rechambered .358 JDJ now for about 10 years or so. SSK rechambered it for me after I had trouble with factory .35 Rem loads misfiring. It is topped off with a T/C 2.5-7X scope. I have, according to my notes, over 3500 rounds thru that barrel, taken thirteen deer with it and so many woodchucks I've lost count. This barrel started off without a muzzle brake but when I started shooting more I fiquared it was time to have one installed - just easier on me and can shoot it all day long as opposed to before when twenty rounds or so was all I wanted to do. I have used everything from Hornady 180s to Nosler 225 Partitions. My recorded results for my best loads (under MOA at 100 yds) are below:
Hornady 180 gr SPSSP, 55.3 grs AA2520, 2479 fps Hornady 200 gr SP, 54 grs AA2520, 2435 fps Hawk 200 gr Round Tip (.030 jacket) 54 grs, 2495 Speer 220 gr FP, 53.5 gs AA2520, 2290 fps Nosler 225 gr BT, 53 grs AA2520, 2245 fps Nosler 225 gr Partition, 53 grs AA2520, 2280 fps
THESE ARE ALL MAX LOADS AND ARE SAFE IN MY BARREL. I don't know about your barrel so START BY REDUCING THESE LOADS 10% AND WORK UP.
When I talked with JD Jones of SSK a couple of years ago he advised using Rem 200 gr RN and Hornady 180 gr SPSSPs for Whitetail and the 220 grain FP for larger game. He also indicated that my barrel may be a fast barrel as similar loads in other barrels were slightly slower. My muzzle brake was added on to the 14" barrel so it did not shorten it. OAL of my barrel + MB is 15 3/4". One last note, every deer that I've shot with the .358 regardless of which bullet I've used has either dropped or gone less than 20 yards, no matter if the shot was a double lung or a shoulder shot. Shot placement is everything to every caliber....Good Shooting....RW
Posts: 82 | Location: Bloomfield, NY, USA | Registered: 12 March 2002
Jules, No I have not yet clocked them yet. My daugher got me a crony for christmas but its been to cold here to shoot. The first chance I get I will be out seeing what my loads are doing. Lone hunter
Posts: 210 | Location: Smithfield, NC, USA | Registered: 15 April 2002
Vic...........NO reason to worry about the noise and Balst to someone else. thid is s HUNTING round. You will not affect a buddy 50 yards aways. And at the range TRUST me The guy shooting a Semi auto next to you does not care that you are trying to get good groups and is going Bang Bang Bang at the time you pull the trigger. I dont feel this is Thoughtless Shooting a brake at the range. It is no different than the guy on a harley BLASTING between cars in the traffic on the frwy...........Just something we live with. Get what YOU want. NEVER buy a gun to fit anothers needs. If you dont like the noise at a public range Better find a Quiet place in the woods.
Guess some would roll up and go home when I pull out the Braked 300 ultra mag? Fireball
quote:Originally posted by Lone Hunter: Jules, No I have not yet clocked them yet. My daugher got me a crony for christmas but its been to cold here to shoot. The first chance I get I will be out seeing what my loads are doing. Lone hunter
That's great L.H. I was hopping my wife and daughter was getting me an Encore for Christmas but it didn't happen You'll love the crony. I don't shoot without mine anymore. I've been reloading for over 20 years and for the first 10, I don't know how I did it without one. Ya really need it for working up max loads.
Gents my point about brakes on the line is simple consideration of other shooters. I dont beleive I said to not get a brake because I dont like them. There are ways to deal with inconsiderate shooters and that is done if necessary. Most shooters at least where I have shot are very considerate and helpful. Rude behavior is not tolerated very well here. Then again we dont "learn to live" with Harleys blasting between lanes here either.
Posts: 15 | Location: Kansas | Registered: 18 January 2003
quote:Originally posted by MEL: Gents my point about brakes on the line is simple consideration of other shooters. I dont beleive I said to not get a brake because I dont like them. There are ways to deal with inconsiderate shooters and that is done if necessary. Most shooters at least where I have shot are very considerate and helpful. Rude behavior is not tolerated very well here. Then again we dont "learn to live" with Harleys blasting between lanes here either.
When I go to a PUBLIC range I fully expect to see others with brakes and others with the BAng Bang guns. These are the guns they enjoy. So i do not feel I am INCONSIDERATE shooting my brake. This is the Life at a public range. If noise and blast is a problem to some shooters then a PUBLIC range is NOT where they belong. Public ranges bring all kinds and all kinds of guns..FOR ALL to enjoy. I drive a GMC maybe you have a dodge. Fireball
Fireball are you accusing me of driving a Dodge? Seriously I respect your views and that is what its all about. Keep shooting and bring as many people into the shooting sports way of life as we can. My regards.
Posts: 15 | Location: Kansas | Registered: 18 January 2003
quote:Originally posted by MEL: Fireball are you accusing me of driving a Dodge? Seriously I respect your views and that is what its all about. Keep shooting and bring as many people into the shooting sports way of life as we can. My regards.
Well I could have said FORD! Fords might get better now that they have found the problem....Notice they circled the problem in chrome on every tailgate? Fireball
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I'm not saying you need a brake because I never shot one without it in a short barrel. That will be up to you. Most folks don't like them because of the noise. ![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif){kind=icon}
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Have you clocked any of your loads?
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