Hypothetical situation : You have just purchased a new barrel for your T/C Contender. For the sake of reasoning lets say a 10" 30-30 Win.

Now, when you go to the range for it's initial romp - what would you expect as far as accuracy goes? (we'll leave precision out of this for now)

3" 5 shot groups at 100 yards?

.5" 5 shot groups at 100 yards?

Or, maybe a better way to ask the question, how do you know if you received a "bum" barrel?

Scoped or Un-Scoped?

scoped - thanks forgot that little kicker!

The expectation I have of every gun I purchase is that (scoped) it will shoot sub-moa @100yds. The difference is that I am purchasing custom barrels only. I wouldn't hold a factory barrel to that standard. If I purchased a factory barrel to be used in hunting situations at modest ranges (100yds or less) I would be happy with 2.5"-3" groups @100yds. If I was getting groups larger than that and I had exhausted all loading alternatives I would probably be giving TC a call.

Why not a factory barrel? And, you touched on something I left out on purpose - handloading. What if you were limited to manufactures' offerings?

Well, my .02 worth...

10" .30-30 factory barrel w/ scope (I'm assuming it would be one of my 2-7 variables), I would settle for nothing worse than 3" with factory ammo. On the other hand, with hand loading I would settle for nothing worse than MOA @ 100 yards. That is probably the reason that most are looking at custom or rechambers.

I haven't had but two of about 20 factory barrels that would do that. Funny thing was that the one was a .223 - probably the worst for accuracy from the factory if you ask around. The other is a .35 Rem. I've never looked at the throat in it - I didn't know to do that when I started working up a load. It took a while to work up loads that it liked, but got it there. The rest were more like shotguns than rifles. :-)

steve

Well for the technical details I would defer to Mike Bellm or Jeff Stratton. The reason I don't expect much from factory barrels is a practical one. I haven't had much luck with them. I've hit my head against that brick wall too many times. On the other hand I have yet to own a custom barrel that will not shoot sub-moa with the right load.

As to your question about factory ammunition. I've never had factory ammo shoot as good as the ammo I load myself. I think your odds of getting good accuracy out of any barrel go up if you can experiment with different powder/bullet combinations. An option that factory ammo eliminates.

This question still goes back to how much accuracy is enough. If you are trying to shoot sub-moa groups with a factory barrel and factory ammunition, I think your in for a long battle that will probably end in frustration. If you just want to take deer at modest ranges (100yds. or less) your barrel should certainly be capable of that.

Have a good one,

David

dalton, thanks for the input. I don't understand what you mean by "I've hit my head against a brick wall too many times". Meaning you couldn't get sub-moa out af a barrel through reloading? or you couldn't get what you wanted out of a factory barrel? (They sound like the same question - they're not) This is where things start getting shady - or maybe runs the edge of fact vs. personnal preference.

Putting together information I've collected over the last few months it seems the single shots are no different then any rifle when it comes to accuracy. Any factory barrel is capable of groups well enough to harvest game animals - as is any rifle out of the box. As far as bench rest accuracy, the single shot needs some load development and/or a custom barrel - same as any rifle. What I don't get is why the factory T/C barrels are "junk" but factory rifles are just that - factory rifles.

I have a goal with any Contender barrel I get. It has to shoot moa with my handloads. So far I've been fortunate enough to have this happen - but I limit the barrels 50% of the time. I say this with the reasoning that the barrels have printed my goal or better more then once; but some days they don't. The days they don't is because of something I'm doing - it's not the gun's fault.

[ 07-01-2003, 16:02: Message edited by: T/C nimrod ]

1buba - only two(2) of twenty(20) barrels for you? WOW, I'd have a chip on my shoulder as well. I'm to assume that you haven't had the same %'s with custom shop barrels?

No - much better %'s on the customs, however, the only custom barrels i've had are 4 Bellm's and one J.D.Jones and one .22 LR to .22 Mag rechamber I did myself :-). The jones barrel was a 14" 6.5 JDJ. Nice barrel. Sub-moa, probably could have outshot my ability. But, I go back to the Bellms. Couple of reason, some personal - he has become a good friend, second it is much cheaper to rechamber a barrel (when he was doing it) than to buy a JDJones barrel. Also, I got one of the few customs he has turned out lately and it is GREAT, and his prices are much better than the other custom shops out there. All of the Bellm barrels can shoot sub-moa, some of them I will need someone with a better skill level to check for me - I would be my .250 AI to be a one holer in the right hands.

BTW, I traded the 6.5 JDJones for a carbine barrel in .223 (factory). I have to try that one out and see what I can do with it. If it doesn't shoot I'll have to send it up to Mike and see if I can get a .222 RMI. May take a year or two, but sometimes that's the price you pay to get a friend to make a barrel shoot.

steve

[ 07-02-2003, 05:55: Message edited by: 1buba ]