To all,

FINALLY, got my xp-100 in 338 WSM back from the smith on Saturday. When I picked it up he said he had fired the six test fire loads over the chrony and got a 2450 fps average with extremely low pressure.

I got it home and throw on the bases and Burris 2.5-7 and headed to the loading room. I can not say that I was 100% satisfied with the finished product as I had to fit the Sako type extractor a little bit to keep it from cutting brass from the rim, as well as the fact that he had raised hell with the trigger pull and did not readjust it at all. No harm done though, in 45 minutes had her up and running good.

Aother thing is that I wanted him to cut the chamber for a round with a 2.950" o.a.l. I am loading the 200 gr Ballistic Tips to 3.100" and still not touching the lands.

Anyway, I did a little load testing as I broke in the barrel and here are the results of one full day shooting so far:

200 gr Ballistic Tip
CCI-200
Reloader-15
3.100" O.A.L.

60.0gr 2450 fps (2.950" oal)
61.0gr 2414 fps (longer oal reduced velocity)
62.0gr 2456 fps
63.0gr 2564 fps
64.0gr 2604 fps
65.0gr 2639 fps
66.0gr 2676 fps
67.0gr 2710 fps
68.0gr 2764 fps
69.0gr 2787 fps (Bolt lift just a bit sticky)
69.5gr 2816 fps (Bolt lift a bit stickly)

From the bolt lift and case expansion, I will call 69.5 gr max for the 200 gr Ballistic Tip. 2800 fps was my goal with this bullet and 3000 fps is my goal with the 180 gr Ballistic Tip. Got one, now its time to try for the other.

Accuracy is hard to judge when breaking in a barrel. From all the cleaning between shots and groups it can cause a few fliers. That said, the biggest group I fired was 1 3/4" for three rounds. The vast majority were in the 3/4" to 1 1/4" range. The 69.0 gr load made two very nice groups of .473" and .566" CTC. I will investigate this load more.

Allowing the barrel to set in after a cleaning will I'm sure reduce loads into the sub 3/4 moa level.

Recoil with the Holland break is a joke, My 357 Blackhawk firing 38 Spl. loads kicks harder. The blast from the break does take a little getting used to but it isn't much worse then my 50 A.E. in the Encore.

Have to go back to work, but hope to test the 180 gr loads tonight. If I can get 3000 fps with the same level of accuracy them I will be one very happy hunter. My 400 yard range is itchen to have this little monster try it out.

Anyone know how to get a picture on this sight? Would like to show you guys the finished product. I am a rather proud new dad.

Good Hunting, I'll let you know on the progress with the 180 gr Ballistic Tips.

50

Email the pic to me and I'll host it and post it.

fiftydriver;

Well it sounds like your new toy is a keeper.I hope you get 3000fps with the 180gr pills.

Sounds like the monster is grouping real good.I am glad too hear that you are mostly happy with it.

As far as these gunsmith go doing a custom job on our guns,I am not very happy with my gunsmith.He has not even started on my XP yet.He said that the barrel was not in yet.It has been over 2 months.

Now you got too kill something with it.I can't wait to see a pic of our new boy.It is great to be a proud pappa of a new toy.

Wade

how long a barrel do you have on it? im considering rechambering my striker to a wsm. jason

Handcannons,

Got a chance to check the cases a bit closer for pressure signs and from the measurements of the cases and feel of the primer pockets when reseating a new primer, I am convinced that about 2775 fps is a good max in any temp. At the +2800 fps level, I know it is safe if temps are under 60 degrees or so but anything hotter may prove a bit hot of a load.

I have loaded cases three times at this level and primer pockets have loosened a bit but are still plenty tight for another couple firings at this level.

I am not totally sure that I will be able to get an honest 3000 fps with a non-coated bullet which is my goal. If I moly plate them it should be no problem but with the big game season opening this Sunday, I don't have time to do proper workups.

The 180 gr pills are loaded up ready for testing but a nice winter storm has hit central Montana and dropped some snow, about 2 inches. Temps today are supposed to be in the 20 degree range so I'll have to wait till tomorrow to chrony test them.

Its really nice to be able to load to full tilt without having case stretch problems like with the Encore.

Have come to the conclusion that any large bore, low pressure rounds will be built on the Encore while the high intensity small bore will have the strong XP-100 action for a home.

I am real curious about how your 300 RUM will shoot in the XP. I know what you mean about smiths doing what they like before other stuff. My smith hates stock work and that was the month long hangup getting my gun back.

This is why I am getting the equipment and training to do this stuff myself, I'm piecing things together now so it won't be long.

Anyway, more data will be on its way shortly.

Good Shooting

50

BigBore50AK,

I have a 15" fluted Lilja barrel on my XP-100 in 338 WSM. Its of the BR Hunter contour with a 1" diameter at the muzzle.

If your looking to build a 300 WSM, Savage is chambering this round in factory guns. The test results I have read showed good accuracy but very low velocity because of the shorter barrel(muzzle break takes up about 1 3/4" of the 15" barrel) and the use of factory ammo.

In fact with the 150 to 180 class bullets, I have loaded the 308 Win up to higher velocities in Encore handguns. Of course the handloader can dramatically improve on these velocities as well as accuracy which I believe was in the 1-1.5" range for three shot groups.

Good idea, if you plan on building on e on the striker, check to see what would be involved in making it feed reliably, unless you plan to shoot it as a single shot.

Good Shooting!!!

50

Great to hear about your 300WSM. I would be happy with 3000fps with the 150grn'rs! I checked with Savage 3 months ago about building an un-compensated 300WSM from their custom shop and I believe they quoted me $637.00 for a 15"bbl unit. My hold-off was that I was unshure if I could get an honest 3000fps with the 150grn'rs, but I think your tests show that this is entirely possible. I will be eager to see your results with the 180grn'rs. Sounds like you have a really nice package. Hope the "ground runs red" for you soon . mike

Everyone,

Finally here in Montana, the weather has let up a bit and today its still in the high 30's but very clear and calm. One of those classic hunting mornings when all the grass and brush is white with frost, can't wait for this Sunday.

Anyway, got a chance to hit the range with the 338 WSM and its 180 gr loads. I must say that I was totally happy with the performance of the 200 gr Ballistic Tips and was expecting high expectations for the 180's as well. I only tested three loads since I had a better point of view as far as a starting point from the 200 gr testing.

Here are the results:

338 WSM
180 gr Ballistic Tip
Rl-15
CCI-200
O.A.L.: 3.070"

68.0gr 2886 fps e.s.:15 1.2" Average CTC
69.0gr 2948 fps e.s.:11 .78" Average CTC
70.0gr 2994 fps e.s.:58 .74" Average CTC

For this testing I used the cases from the 200 gr load testing which all had three firings per case and some were just starting to get a bit on the loose side.

The 68.0 gr load was a very nice load, bolt lift was easier lifting then locking, good sign for a mild load.

The 69.0 gr load seems to be the best load tested. Accuracy was extremely good and velocity was very good as well, only 52 fps off my desired goal of 3000 fps. Bolt lift was a bit more then the 68.0 gr load but nothing to mention.

The 70.0 gr load was a bit hotter then I like. In fact the first test load produced a leaky primer, which I suspect was a primer pocket which was loosened a bit from the 200 gr tests as no other primer showed any signed of leaking. Still bolt lift was heavier then the previous tests and more then I can call allowable. I did have 6 of the 9 test loads at 70.0 gr hit over 3000 fps with the highest at 3019 fps.

Technically I guess I reached my goals with very good accuracy but a bit to much pressure. I will go down to the 69.0 gr load and stick with it for this hunting season. This first week of big game season, I have two mule deer doe permits that I will test this new little beast on. If it performs well, and I'm sure it will, then it will be time to hopefully try it on a +300 pound whitetail or Mule deer buck.

Pshooter,

I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to hit very near 3000 fps with a 300 WSM in the Striker.

Its interesting that an acqantiance of mine came to my house and range a few weeks ago to develope loads for his 300 WSM in the Browning A-Bolt. His top load drove the 180 gr Ballistic Tip to 2975 fps out of the 23" barrel. My 338 WSM with its 15" barrel is getting right at 2950 fps with better accuracy.

I know thw .308" bullet will retain velocity and buck the wind a bit better but not that much over the range both will be used, out to 300 yards. If this fella tries to reach out farther then that he will be stretching his skills way to far as I watched him shoot quite a bit.

Anyway, good shooting and hunting and I'll let you guys know how the 338 WSM performs on game next week.

Also, my wife got me a 12" 454 Casull barrel for my Encore for my birthday, I am blessed to say the least. Developed loads for it as well and at a book max of 34.0 gr of H-110 under the Speer Uni-Core SP, I got an average of 1946 fps and 2.5" groups at 50 yards with open sights. I am hopeing to use this one to harvest a whitetail out of my treestand this year.

Killed alot of game with handguns but never one without a scope, I am excited to give this a try. I will limit myself to 50 yards just to make things a bit harder, or easier, depending on how you look at it.

Good Hunting!!!

50

Just thinking outloud here, but maybe the 338wsm, short bbl. combination is just a more effecient set-up than the 300wsm. I know you don't have pressure figures for the 2, But I would like to know powder type, grains, & bullet wt. that your friend is using. Maybe I need to look at a 338wsm for my elk/big game pistol set-up. Maybe you just need a heavier, bigger bullet in these short bbl.'s to create enough resistance (backpressure) to burn all that powder. And if the short magnums work because they are fatter than the standard round (larger diameter powder column and burn area), then that would all add up. Interesting. It still amazes me that we can effectivly use these guns out to 300+ yds. I think I'll go put on my shirt with the big "S" on the chest Sounds like your really having fun now!! ps. Better hang on to that wife of yours...sounds like a winner. mvm

Pshooter,

I agree that the WSM and all the other short mags are better choices in short barrels but not for the same reasons as most do.

Personally, I do not believe that the case design in what produces more velocity. I think "x" number of grains behind a bullet will produce "y" fps as long as the bullet travels the same distance to the muzzle.

By that I mean usable barrel length. If we look at the WSM and say even a STW case. The WSM case is roughly 2" long, where as the STW case is just under 2.9" long. If both have the same tight, short throat and both are fired in a 15" barrel, the WSM bullet will travel around 13" before leaving the muzzle, the STW bullet will travel about 12" to muzzle.

Velocity is a product of pressure and time. The propellant creates the pressure and the more time that pressure acts on the bullet, the faster it will go, to a point of course.

It takes the bullet from the WSM case longer to reach the muzzle, so not only is there more time for powder to expand into gas, but there is also more time for the pressure to push on the bullet.

This is why one can take a 280 IMP out of a 28" barrel and match the velocity of a 7mm STW in a 24" barrel.

I also believe that if the WSM and STW cases are fired in barrels where both have the same length of usible barrel, the bigger case will win hands down, no matter the design of the case. That is as long as both are loaded to the same pressure.

My project with the 338 WSM started with one goal: Design a short wildcat that would fit in the XP-100 action, with enough energy and a flat enough trajectory to engage a 900 pound bull elk at 300 yards.

I did look at the 300 WSM as well as the 7.82 Patriot and from what XPHUNTER tells me, he can drive the 150 gr bullets to a bit over 3000 fps out of the Patriot out of his 15" XP. It has long been known that if you have two rounds with the same capacity, one in a smaller bore, and one in a larger bore, the larger bore will always produce more velocity with same weight bullets.

This is simply because the larger bore creates a higher expansion ratio round which can use faster burning powder then the smaller bore without increasing pressure. This is especially good in a short 15" barrel. Also if we look at the bearing surface of a .308" and .338" 180 gr ballistic Tip, the .338 is much shorter which means less friction and, again allows us to use a faster powder and more of it.

This theory has held true for me in many rifles and handguns. One very good example is with a 7mm Rem Mag and 338 Win Mag rifle. The 7mm will drive a 160 gr bullet to an honest 3000 fps rather easily, whereas the 338 will drive a 160 gr X bullet almost 300 fps faster and sometimes even more. They both have roughly the same case capacity, only the 338 can use faster powders and the 338 bullet has less bearing surface to create friction.

These are the reasons I did not go with the 300 WSM. I knew a larger bore would get more velocity then the .308" bore.

I looked at the 375 WSM as well. It is true that if there were 180 gr .375" bullets on the market, it would beat the 338 WSM by a fair margin in velocity, BUT!!!

For 300 yard shooting, we need both velocity and ballistic Coefficient. I really didn't want to batter myself shooting a 260 gr or heavier bullet and since the 180 and 200 gr Ballistic Tips are on the market in .338" as well as the 210 gr Partition, I decided the 338 WSM would be the best compromise of high velocity, bullet weight, B.C., trajectory and accuracy, with managable recoil.

The fella I know with the 300 WSM rifle is using the 180 gr Ballistic Silvertip over 70.0 gr RL-22 and a CCI-250 primer. His ten shot string over my chrony averaged 2975 fps. Pressure was high enough to just start producing a faint extractor mark, just as the factory loads he had had done. My 338 WSM shows these same types of pressure signs so I would say they are working at very similiar pressures bt your right, without a strain guage, its impossible to know for sure.

I agree with you that these rounds are great in handguns, my next will either be a 6.5 WSM or a 375 WSM. I would like a lighter deer/pronghorn XP-100 but I would also like a closer range(200 yards or so) HAMMER.

We'll have to see which gets the go.

Good Hunting!!!

50

50, Thanks for the reply. Shure does get the ole' tinker, tinkin. mvm

50,
Your 338WSM will effectively drop a bull beyond 300 yards given the right bullet and placement, and of course shooter-just my opinion.
I hope you choose the 6.5 WSM for your next project. The 6.5's have piqued my interest lately.

Feels good to be back on the forum. Been in a new house and job for about a week now. Still don't have my loading stuff set up, but one of my members has a membership at a range justoutside of town where they can shoot out to 600 yards-yipee!
xphunter

Congrats on your 338WSM!

Xphunter,

The more I research the 6.5 WSM, the more I like it as a medium, large game round. I have been planning to turn one of my 221 FB actions into one of these new toys.

On my 338 WSM, I used a BR Hunter contoured barrel which finishes up at an even 1.00" at the muzzle. I wanted the weight of this barrel to help dampen recoil as I was not planning on using a break at the time I was starting this project.

In hindsight, I think the 6.5 WSM would be better suited with a contour that finishes in the .650" to .720" range. The Holland break will be smaller with less surface area then the 338's but the recoil energy will be far less as well.

Using this slimmer contour will shave about a pound off the finished handgun weight and will be even easier to pack in the field.

I have not yet planned an elk hunt for sure but I do have a fellow that wants me to go with him on a private land hunt later in the season, hopefully work will allow this.

I will use the 210 gr or 225 gr Partition for mature elk, for deer and cow/spike elk hunting the 180 gr Ballistic Tip will be used.

Went out today as it was the first morning of the big game season, our ambush set up was perfect as 23 head of mule deer walked single file 200 yards in front of us. No big bucks yet, but as the rut nears, that many does will certainly look good to the wondering big boys.

I'll let you know how the 338 does and of any plans on the 6.5 WSM.

Good Hunting!!!

50

Let me pose this. I'm no engineer, but if fps is a reflection of pressure applied to the base of the bullet...then more area to apply force to = more force applied = more fps. in the same length of space. Wouldn't it be the same as bullet energy applied at impact. The same meaning larger bullet diameter, more energy expended. Case in point, bullets of the same weight, traveling the same velocity, of different bore sizes, create different energy figures. Just trying to understand. I know this approaches the anal level, but my brain is on now and I can't stop it mvm

Pshooter,

Bore diameter has no effect on Kenetic Energy, i.e. bullet energy. A 180 gr .308" bullet traveling at 3000 fps has exactly the same energy as a 180 gr .338" bullet traveling at 3000 fps.

But, on game performance and the physical effects of the larger diameter bullet are much greater. This is because more tissue is displaced, or moved out of the way as the larger bullet travels though the target.

Penetration is of course limited as bullet diameter is increased without increasing bullet weight but with todays bullets, one can get a lighter bullet stout enough for any job here in North America.

I feel the TKO formula is a better way of figuring on game performance. This formula was designed for use with large bore, non- expanding bullets for use on African big game but are also useful with all hunting loads, just not quite as accurate.

The fly in the soup using the TKO formula with expanding hunting bullets is that not all expanding bullets do so in the same mannor so we have to make sure we are comparing apples to apples.

The larger area of the bullet base may have something going for it but I have yet to read anything about how that will increase velocity over a smaller diameter base, may be something to look at though.

Good Hunting!!!

50

Guys and Galls if any,

The 338 WSM drew first blood Monday after noon, heres the story.

After a morning of work, I headed out to the ranch that a family member owns where I fill my Mule Deer Doe tags every year. This is a huge ranch with no trees but very large and rugged draws filled with sandstone formations often 20-30 feet high. Kind of like a small version of the badlands.

I drove into the back side of the ranch and glass across the valley to try to spot a herd for a stock. After 15 minutes of glassing I spied three does bedded on a high rim about 2 miles from where I set.

I drove the truck to the valley bottom and started up a draw with my pack and XP-100. After about a 1/2 hour walk I came up behind a rock formation that gave me cover to check out the does a bit better.

The day before my wife and I had a herd of 23 deer walk in front of our ambush sight and I figured these were part of the same herd.

I took off my pack and grabbed my rangefinder, bino's and XP and crawled up to another rock about 100 yards further up the draw. From this point, I had a clear line of sight to the does which were at 148 yards in their beds.

The problem is that they all looked to be young does, not what I wanted but I figured there were at least 20 more in the draw that were hidden from my view so I figured I would just lay there until the herd moved out to feed and I would have my pick of the big does.

Well, it was 1:25 pm when I got into position to wait and at 2:00 pm a snow storm rolled in and a very cold north wind as well. It snowed so hard that at times I could not see the deer a mear 150 yards away through my 10X bino's.

At 4:00, 2 1/2 hours after I got settled, the two does which I knew were young stood up and started walking back up the ridge. It was still snowing but had let up just enough to see them. The third deer seemed larger but with the snow and the angle that she was laying, made it difficult to get an accurate depiction of her age.

Finally at around 4:30 pm, the third doe stood up and walked to the other two further up the hill. It was obvious now that she was the mature doe of the trio. I took a final reading of 178 yards and glanced at my cheat sheet on my scope. My bullet would land right at 3" high at that range. I held just higher then her chest line and right in line with her leg and the big 338 barked against the rock walls of the canyon. I did not see the hit but the sound was unmistakible. All I saw was her legs in the air as she rolled once down the hill.

I waited to let the other does leave the area, giving them no education that a human had done this and walked up to inspect the 338 WSM's first kill.

The 180 gr Ballistic Tip hit exactly where I knew it would. Slipped perfectly behind both shoulders and punched dead center on the does heart which was gone for lack of a better discription. There was a 1.5" hole into the chest cavity and the same out, showing that the bullet had expanded quickly but in a very controlled manor. I have shot a fair share of deer and witnessed twice a many more and this is only the second heart shot deer I have ever seen drop in its tracks, and the only one do it without a major support bone being hit.

To say I am happy with the 338's first hunt is an understatement, now its time to turn her on to a big buck and elk.

I'll keep you posted on the hunts and results.

Good Luck to all of you on your hunts!!!

50

Fiftydriver,

Thank you for sharing your experiences. Excellent first hunt with the 338

Fiftydriver
Congrats on your hunt !!
Rich Jake

50 ......1 deer.....0 Here's a big WAAAAAAAAAHOOOOOOOO for ya!!! Thanks for the reply also. mvm

50,
I'm happy for your success. It sounds like a perfect stalk and set-up. Chalk up another one for the XP's.
xphunter

50, GREAT HUNT!! CONGRATS!

Look forward to hearin how that 338 performs on the bigger stuff!

Always liked that caliber....

Hey guys;

Been real busy with bow season,and a new girl friend.Plus just got a new XP-100 it is a 375/284 SSK full house.Chromed action which has been skeltonized,brake,stainless barrel,TSOB mount,action and trigger job.And all I can say is wow!!!!!! But I need some load data and find some way to neck up the brass I lost 15 rounds out of 50.I had a burr on the expander ball I polsished it off and did a lot better.

Bow season hit one doe lost after 4.5 hours tracking a 2 lunch then tracked again for 2 hours for a totall of 4 miles.It is getting close to rut,seen a 3 pointer(have seen him 5 out of 5 times I have hunted)chasing a doe lot of rubs and scraps.Also bought a new bow a PSE Carrera solo cam with the cam from the Mach 10 on it.265 fps with a 425 grain arrow which inculdes a 100gr NAP Spitfire.

No word on my XP-100 in 300RUM yet.

458X2 XP-100 is ready for gun season.If I get the 375/284 ready it will be the back up.If not my 375/06JDJ Encore will do it is doing ok but not great still need some work(if the 375/284 does what I want then I will sell the 375/06JDJ barrel).Plus the 50 AE 10" Encore barrel is doing great.

50; it sound like your 338WSM is doing what you want.The groups you are getting are great for that much power.I bet your a proud papa?Sound like your hunting season is going great also.

Xphunter;Hope you like your new house.Sorry to hear that you are going to miss some of the hunting this year.But you always have next year.

Talk to you all after while.

Wade

Handcannons,

Is this the same 375-284 that I saw for sail I think on Shooters? Sounds like a real beauty, should shoot real well for you.

If I were you, I would just use the load data you use for your 375-06 JDJ, and reduce by 12-15 percent. If you were using the standard 375-06 then I would reduce by 10 percent as both the 06 and 284 have roughly the same capacity, in the JDJ form though, the case capacity is increased by about 4-5 grains depending on brass.

One good thing is that the XP-100 will handle much higher pressures then your Encore before showing pressure signs so the 12-15 percent reduction should be perfectly safe.

What bullets do you plan on using in the 375-284? I would strongly suggest staying away from the 260 gr Ballistic Tip for this or any round smaller then the 375 H&H in a rifle. It is a great bullet with a very good B.C. but is designed for the newer 375 magnums and will not expand well at handgun velocities, no matter the cartridge shooting it. In fact I played around with some reduced loads in my 375 Ultra rifle and at around 2500 fps, I was getting core/jacket seperation about 50% of the time with pretty poor expansion reliablility. Impact range was at 100 yards so velocity was pretty low but probably in the same range as the larger handgun 375 rounds have at the muzzle.

Its funny though that if driven to +3100 fps with full tilt loads out of the 375 RUM, it expands beautifully at ranges as close as 50 yards. It looses alot of weight but it holds enough for the game this bullet was intended to hunt. With this load I would feel perfectly comfortable hammering a 1000 pound bull elk at 50 yards or 400 yards.

About expanding your 284 cases to 375. This can be tricky with some lots of Winchester brass because it is so hard and becomes brittle very fast. I don;t know what expander you are using but I would recommend sizing up in two steps using Redding tapered expanders. I would take the 284 up to 338 first and then to 375 in a second step. Use alot of heavy lube as well for expanding case necks. They will have to be cleaned well by tumbling but it makes the work much easier.

Some lots of 284 brass will simply not handle the stretching without spitting. If you know how to, annealing the case mouth will make it easier to expand but if you make them to soft or go to far down the shoulder, the case will not stand the strain of expanding and will either collapse or tear off when pulled over the expander ball.

You may want to try the new brass from Norma in 6.5-284. You will have to expand it even more but Norma cases are often quite soft and will expand easier then the Winchester stuff.

On the down side, Norma brass is quite pricey and because it is made quite soft, will not handle full tilt loads for many firings.

I guess I would recommend expanding with more steps between 284 and 375. I have made a few 375 WSM cases just experimenting and have had no problems taling the 300 WSM from .308" to .338" and then to .375". Granted I have only done this to about 10 cases but all turned out very nice.

Good luck on the upcoming gun season, sorry to hear about the bad luck with the bow, things like that happen and all we can do is do our best to do everything right from the shot to the tracking, unfortunately, even if everything is done right, sometimes bad things still happen.

Good Hunting and Shooting!!!

Also, though you might want to know that I have been using that brass I got from you to develope loads and hunt with. Your once fired 300 WSM brass was used to harvest that doe and here soon hopefully a nice buck. Let a nice 130" class 4x4 whitetail walk last night, nice high tined buck with a 4" kicker off his left G-2. First mature buck I have seen in my hunting area as the rut is just showing hints of starting, if I see him in the last two weeks of the season, he will get vented by a .338" 180 gr Ballistic Tip. Until then I am holding to my standard 140 class or larger, hopefully I'll get lucky.

Good Hunting!!!

50

Well guys, have a story for you about the 338's first adventure against a mature buck. May be a bit lengthy but it was a good hunt so I hope I can share my excitement.

A cold front moved in yesterday so I decided to go up for my evening hunt about 2 hours earlier then usual. I arrived at 1:00 pm at my ambush site overlooking a long creek bottom with high open hills on both sides. The creek bottom ranges from 100 to 300 yards across the flat with a very windy creek in the bottom.

My hunting method for this area, where I get most of my big mature whotetail bucks, is to set up in different locations along this section of creek bottom. There are many large coulees spidering off the main creek bottom and the big whitetails like to tke "hot" does far up these draws to avoid pressure from other bucks. They go up in the mornings and come down in the morning.

This isn't you average whitetail ground as there isn't a tree on the place that is taller then me and only a handful of those. Also, it is only during the rut that the mature bucks use this drainage as a refuse from other bucks.

Anyway, I was set up in my ambush sight trying to see one of these big boys start his decent off the ridge and then the trick is getting in position so that the buck will come out of the right draw for a shot opportunity, doesn't happen all that often as the bucks are much higher then the creek and can easily see your movements if paying attention.

So here I am glassing the draws and for some reason I looked at the very back of this long creek bottom and saw two very white butts. They were Mule deer which are also common in the area but I am much more partial to Whitetails. Being that they were in view I watched them run around on the flat about 900 yards away.

Then another Mulie, a small 2x2 can out of a draw and began running one of the does around. The Mulies are really beginning to rut now but the Whitetails are still a week or so away. I watched them for 10-15 minutes and they disappeared around the bend in the creek, I figured to not be seen again.

It was quite windy and there were no sign of mature whitetails coming off the hill. At about 4:00 pm, I noticed the two Mulies running back out onto the flat. I was quite suprised when I looked through the spotting scope and saw a very nice 5x4 mule deer chasing the doe instead of the 2x2.

As I said earlier, I am a whitetail man at heart but with a handgun, any mature deer(5 1/2 years or older) will fill my tag nicely, this deer certainly fit the bill. The only problem was that they were no where near in range and covering the open ground for a shot is simply impossible in this area.

After about 30 minutes of sizing him up and deciding that I would take him if the chance arose, he ran the doe up into a small draw where they both bedded down.

I quickly began planning my approach and figured that if I could get down ti the creek, which was about 200 yards of open land away, I could fallow it up to a small bluff which I figured was within 250 yards of the two mulies.

I couldn't see the two deer so off I started down the hill and got to the creek bottom unseen. I followed the creek up till I came to a spot where I could look up the draw and see if the deer were still there, they were!

The bad thing was that the doe was bedded facing me and the buck was laying with his big butt right toward me and I could see nothing else except horns. I took a moment to inspect his horns again and they looked even better from this view. He was not overly wide, just to his ear tips but he had very deep forks all the way around and from the mass, I figured him to just meet my 5 1/2 year goal.

The problem was that I was at the place that O figured was 250 yards away from the two but instead, the rangefinder read 578 yards, a wee to far for this cowboy.

I dropped back down into the deep creek bottom and regrouped for another approach back to the other side of the creek bottom and hopefully within shooting range before the light faded.

This approach worked better then I planned and I was able to get behind a hill and out of the creek. I crawled up to the rim of the hill and instead of two mulies, a herd of +30 deer had settled in the area in the time it took to circle back and get up the hill.

This made things tricky as the light was fading and in the herd of deer I couldn't fine a set of big horns.

I scanned the herd for 10 minutes when finally the big boy came out of the draw. Once he was in the open it was clear to see, even with the naked eye which one he was as he stood at least 4" taller then anything elso in the herd.

He began to work the herd up the hill and onto another section of land where I can't hunt. I quickly ranged him at 317 yards. I loaded the 338 WSM XP-100 and read my impact would be about 6" low at that range. I held on the line of his spine as he quartered away from me.

This was a poor angle but I figured the big 338 bullet could handle the job if I slipped it behind the last rib. I quickly lined the vertical crosshair up with the ofside shoulder and the little beast barked.

As anyone who handgun hunts know, once the shot goes, its nearly impossible to see the shot land through the scope so I just listened and a solid, hollow "THUMP" echoed back across the +300 yards and seemed almost as loud as the shot. I scrambled to reload and I found him in the scope still standing. I lined the 338 up for a second round when he turned and walked down the hill into the creek bottom and dissapeared.

I was a bit nervous now because a handgun isn't exactly a good tool for shooting at a jumped, wounded animal if he was still alive. I waited 15 minutes, about as much time as the light would allow me and headed over to the brush pile he entered.

As I got closer, I loaded the 338 and turned the burris down to 2x just in case I had to take a close range finisher. As I came over the edge, ther he was laying dead on the frozen creek, a very welcome sight.

I grabbed onto his horned and slid him to the small bank which was about 6 feet high. It took everything I had to get him up the bank. He later scaled out at 308 pounds field dressed, and I believe the largest bodies bucks I have taken to date.

The 180 gr, 338 ballistic Tip hit about 3 inches lower then I had planed but still well into the chest cavity. It hit right on the last rib, destroyed the liver and offside lung and exited just behind the offside shoulder.

The entrance wound inside the chest cavity was about 2.5" in diameter showing good initial expansion even at 317 yards and the exit wound was a clean round 1" hole showing controled expansion and good penetration.

It was one of my most memerable hunts of all time and one which will be hard to beat. So far the 338 WSM XP-100 is 2 for 2 and going strong. Still have a whitetail doe tag and elk tag to fill so hopefully we will go 4 for 4. I'll keep you posted.

How is everyone elses hunting going. If you have stories, please feel free to comment, a hunting story is always good reading in my book.

Good Hunting!!!

50

50,

That was a wonderful story! Excellent second hunt with the 338!

Did you use a natural rest to take the shot? Also, what sort of stock is on that pistol?

50,
Great stalk, great shot, and great story!
I'm very happy for you.

Ernie

Thanks guys, I am very happy with the results of the handgun on paper and game.

Sean, I use a BR Harris bipod as a front rest and use my offhand for elevation adjustment under the grip. This is a very short bipod so situations must be perfect. I also carry a pack with me that I will use for a rest if conditions warrent.

The stock is one of the old Fajen grey laminated thumbhole stocks which I have extensively recontoured to make it a much better hunting stock. I removed the thumbhole portion and reshaped the back of the grip to closely resenble the Rem factory wood stock except for a larger palm swell and a slight hand rest lip on the bottom of the stock, similiar to the factory plastic stocks.

I opened up the blind trigger guard and reshaped so that it could be used either right or left hand. I also cut the forend back at a 35 degree angle for a little class.

I then sanded the entire stock down to raw wood, polished to 1500 grit finish and finished in a matte polyurethane finish. Final touches were a set of Uncle Mikes swivel studs, one in the forend, the other sticking straight out the rear of the stock just under the rear action tang. With a sling in place, I can't even feel this handgun on me, especially if worn bandaleer style across my chest or back.

Thanks for the responses and Good Luck hunting. When I get the pictures developed, I'll try to figure out how to get them posted for you to see.

50

Fifty, was if I was right there with you!! Great story and congrats also. I have a little hunt story to share with you guys . Every year some of us apply for Ga. coastal barrier island hunts for hogs, and or deer. This year we only got picked for one, Cumberland Isl. The drill is all the hunters load their camps on the ferry sunday morning for the 1hr. + ride to Cumberland, set up camp, then scout the afternoon. Hunt mon.,tues.,wed., and come home thur. While scouting sunday I saw 12 hogs so I was pumped. But mon., tues.,and wed. morning produced nothing. Wed. around 2:00 me and my hunting buddy decided to just still hunt the rest of the day and headed out. Both with our handguns only, his an XP in 308 and my 308 Striker. We creeped along the trails and thickets untill the last 45min. or so where we set up in a large oak grove, both of us against a big oak. We set up our tripods facing different directions and "became the tree". We get a kick out of watching each other shoot, try it sometime, It's a great learning tool. Anyway we waited only about 5 min. when I saw two little island deer moving broadside in front about 70yds. At that point I said quietly "deer...deer" and the next sound was the crack of the 308. Might as well have hit that little deer with a SLEDGE!! Not another step was taken. It was neet....except for the mosquitos. mvm

Pshooter and Sean,

Pshooter first,

That is a great story and hunt, I think the hunts are better that come down to the last hour, that way, nomatter the game harvested, anything and everything is a great trophy because of the many memories of the long hunt.

I'm not one to pass up on a true trophy of a lifetime early in a hunt, but I do prefer to harvest game near the end of the hunt. Allows more time in the field and thats what I think most of us really enjoy above all.

That hog hunting sounds like a blast. I have only hunted hogs once, Russian Boars, and I used my RUger Blackhawk in 45 Colt to harvest a 275 pound boar. It was great fun, especially with the open sighted Ruger. The meat was amazing and after this hunting season, I going to head back for another go at it if money permits.

Thanks for the story on the great hunt, I love hearing about tough hunts that finally work out or even don't, tells me that your a true hunter at heart and not just a weekend wonder. Sticking it out to the end says alot about a hunter, its easy to go home early when things look bad, congrats and you have my respect.

Like I always tell new hunters, and I'm sure you would agree with me, "you can't shoot them out of your livingroom, get out and go hunting!!"

Thank you for the story and good Hunting!!

50

Sean, I would agree with you about the Harris bipods, I have tried a few other designs and never been as satisfied as the Harris, some are lighter but not as stable, some are rock solid but weight a ton, the Harris is the best quality bipod for my uses that I have found to date.

Good Hunting!!!

50

50. Thanks for the vote. But as you and any other real hunter know, quiting never enters the picture. They could be just around the next bend...or just over the ridge...or just in the next few minuites....or... There are no Russians where we hunt, maybe some Kossacs just kidding. These hogs are decendants of Spaniard hogs let loose on the islands to feed wayward sailors. But now the bunnyhuggers say they have to go because the do so much "devistation to the natural flora" (give me a break) but unless they poison them, they will never be able to get to them to eradicate em. Government...who needs it. mvm