Here is his latest temper tantrum on the GB classifieds! Really pathetic.

"gonna lose the priviledge of buying, selling and trading firearms and frames if you can't get it right.

I have the blamed wording on every single page on the site and yet this bunch here just cannot or will not do it right.

Starting RIGHT NOW. EVERY single person who posts a firearm or frame on this forum without the MANDATORY statement will be deleted from GBO membership.

I'd sick and tired of telling you and telling you and telling you and telling you and being ignored. Folks are gonna be deleted in the future.

No ifs, no ands and no buts. Membership WILL BE TERMINATED for failure to follow the rules. End of discussion

He's too much.

The GOSPEL according to GRAYBEARD...

I had an e-mail with a copy of a thread that a friend just recently sent me. Someone asked a question about an FFL, transfer, etc. Ol' GB said he never has to pay because he is such a VALUED customer. He sure does think highly of himself....

It is sad to say, but the old Pond Fish is simply a very willing and extremely vulnerable dupe of obvious social engineering and conditioning.

In political science, social engineering refers to attempts by governments or private groups to change or "engineer" the views and behavior of citizens. This happens, for example, by the use of advertising, through the active vocal protest of a minority in the culture, or through the legal system. All three have been used over the last 40 years to advance an anti-gun agenda, and the old Pond Fish is a typical casualty of these efforts.

Social engineering in terms of the anti-gun views consists of policies aimed at discouraging certain legal and even constitutionally protected rights and behaviors which are regarded as undesirable by a given group or segment of society.

Under such engineering and conditioning, legally shipping firearms according to the letter of the law is therefore deemed “not enough†by such casualties of social engineering as the old Pond Fish, and he unwittingly advances the anti-gun agenda by his tacit obedience to their will, that we must have more and more restrictive policies which go way beyond the requirements of the law, in order to be “safe†and “protected†because we have been conditioned and taught and shouted at over and over again that what we are doing is somehow unethical, naughty, or bad.

Shipping policies such as those of UPS and Fed Ex influence behavior in the direction of the anti-gun agenda, as do user-fees, and even ostensibly "laissez-faire" economic policies like PayPal and Ebay’s anti-gun prohibitions on sales of firearms, ammunition, etc. These policies intend to encourage growth and acceptance of anti-gun views by rewarding compliance with the policies, even though they are not required by actual law.

Despite variance in degree and directness, the essential element of social coercion remains the same, and soon, thanks to the pandering weak minded GB’s of the world who actually adopt and integrate such restrictive extra-legal policies into their own practice, the society is conditioned to such behavior and thinking and is prepped to acquiesce to more and more restrictive legislation in advance of the anti-gun agenda.

I am sure he thinks he is open to liability and must therefore cover himself with these silly attempts to go out of his way and beyond the law to show he is “trying,†but ultimately he is simply, out of unreasonable fear, giving in to and promoting the social engineering and conditioning of the anti-gun left.

He does not realize that his current convictions were generated by the same anti-gun engineering and conditioning that caused S&W to sign with Clinton, which he himself ridiculed. He is now going exhibiting the same behavior he detested in S&W. . The same thing happened in the UK and Australia, and if we give in to such, it will happen here too.

Want to fight it? Go out and buy a firearms every chance you get and have extra cash. Shoot A LOT. Support the industry. Teach your children and friends, and make a difference one or two people at a time. Refuse to give in to the compromising GB’s of the world by leaving their little fiefdoms and come to places like this where freedom is valued, and POST OFTEN.

Basically, reverse social engineer and condition to the RIGHT position

"But I anticipate, it is for future scientists to make these maxims precise and discover exactly how much it costs per head to make children believe that snow is black, and how much less it would cost to make them believe it is dark gray....Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated.

The populace will in general be too busy earning a living or too lazy or just too world weary to care much about where and how they arrived at their convictions. When the technique has been perfected, every government that has been in charge of education for a generation will be able to control its subjects securely without the need of armies or policemen."

– Bertrand Russell, The Impact of Science on Society, 1951

Thank you for proving my point

Sean,

You have a very well worded analysis there.

You've been cracking the books again it appears.

It appears that Bill has taken a misdirection given him by a BATF agent and has interpreted it to somehow apply to him and his forums directly. He must have been originally afraid that he was somehow vulnerable by allowing "unlawful behavior" on his forums.

A little research on his part would likely have revealed to him that he was/is the victim of a government employee giving him incorrect advice.

This issue has become a very sore point with him and he seems to be willing to make a fool of himself by being stubborn and enforcing rules that have no legal basis. It doesn't appear that he cares whether or not he's right anymore but that people won't do as he says adn he seems furious about it.

I kind of feel sorry for him now. He has only two options that I can see. He can either back down from his incorrect assumption that he knows the law better than thousands of us and admit that he was wrong OR he can continue to subject himself to ridicule and take this issue to the extreme thereby alienating hundreds of people like his last huge blowup did.

When someone takes a position that is impossible to defend and refuses to admit defeat or that they were wrong they put themselves in a prison of their own making. It appears that our friend Graybeard has done just that.

It will be quite interesting to see how this plays out and I have quit using his TC classified forum which was getting pretty good for buying and selling TC related items rather than dealing with his unreasonably restrictive rules.

It is, without a doubt, Bill's forum and he can enforce any rules he wants because it's his to do what he want's with. I just don't understand his motive(s) for this particular issue unless it's just plain stubbornness.

On one hand he seems to want his business to grow and prosper and to have a lot of members. But on the other hand he seems quite willing to wreck his fairly prosperous enterprize and expose himself to ridicule over issues it doesn't seem prudent to even care about.

He can cover his butt quite easily by offering the statement that ALL transactions must follow the letter of the law, whether it be federal, state, city, county etc....

I don't have a dog in this race but sure find it entertaining...

$bob$

quote:

Originally posted by LDHunter:
It is, without a doubt, Bill's forum and he can enforce any rules he wants because it's his to do what he want's with. I just don't understand his motive(s) for this particular issue unless it's just plain stubbornness.

On one hand he seems to want his business to grow and prosper and to have a lot of members. But on the other hand he seems quite willing to wreck his fairly prosperous enterprize and expose himself to ridicule over issues it doesn't seem prudent to even care about.

He can cover his butt quite easily by offering the statement that ALL transactions must follow the letter of the law, whether it be federal, state, city, county etc....

I don't have a dog in this race but sure find it entertaining...

$bob$

Like you, I have no real dog in this race. I left in the first mass exodus of the pond many years ago. It does continue to entertain: the sad disintegration of a fellow is tragic, even in the Old Pond Fishes case.

Aye, the conduct that holds to a position in spite of all indication and evidence to the contrary, to the point of driving tens and hundreds away from his business just so he can continue to hold to a wrong position no matter the self destruction, is the most astonishing and disappointing aspect.

The illogic of it is almost as beyond belief as those who actually support him in it. That he is a product of that unreasonable fear and compromising to the left spirit which he once ridiculed in others is fairly obvious. That coupled with a psychological need to be right against all evidence and reason,

In my study of Psych and Personality disorders, were I to have to do so, I’d say this is the behavior of someone who has elements of Narcissistic Personality Disorder: totally alienating all friends and family through arrogance, stubbornness, and self martyrdom. People with NPD won't change their behavior even when it causes problems at work or when other people complain about the way they act, or when their behavior causes a lot of emotional distress to others or themselves.

None of the narcissists I have worked with ever admitted to being distressed by their own behavior -- they always blame other people for any problems. The simplest everyday way that narcissists show their exaggerated sense of self-importance is by talking about family, work, or life in general as if there is nobody else in the picture.

Whatever they may be doing, in their own view, they are the star, and they give the impression that they are bearing heroic responsibility for their family or department or company, that they have to take care of everything because their co-workers are undependable, uncooperative, or otherwise unfit.

They ignore or denigrate the abilities and contributions of others and complain that they receive no help at all; they may even inspire sympathy or admiration for their stoicism in the face of hardship or unstinting self-sacrifice for the good of undeserving others. But this everyday grandiosity is an aspect of narcissism that one may never catch on to unless one were to visit the narcissist's home or workplace and see for yourself that others are involved and are pulling their share of the load and, more often than not, are also pulling the narcissist's share as well.

Melvin in SC

The man deleted every post i had on that board
becouse i posted up that i was making bullet's for Ed Hubel's 700 Hubel Express and that i would be more then happy to help anyone in there queste to design there own bullet and i would ferther help anyone with question and answers about swaging there only bullets and if thay could not find the aswer on his web site then stop by mine for the answer. since all the moderators that are on his site are also the ones on my site and there were and are bullet
company owners that would and will help in any way thay can ..

for this i had every post deleted and i was band from his web site ,
and the letter i got from him looked like it was written by a 9 years old trying despertly to look and act tough

Sad little buckaroo

Martin, that is really sad. It is also a horrible example of "eating our own." Looks like the alienation and estrangement of a professional in the industry such as you out of what can only be jealousy, resentment, and a false sense of self-importance.

Someone like this "might possibly" fit the criteria of a Narcissistic Personality: totally alienating all friends and family through arrogance, stubbornness, and self martyrdom, as well as “They ignore or denigrate the abilities and contributions of others and then turn around and complain that they receive no help at all.â€

Of course, the non-technical term is usually an analogy to our solid human waste extretion site...

On the contrary to how you were treated at the pond, most of us are thrilled when folk like you share such knowledge here!

It makes me wonder how long it will be before the pond dries up completely…

But is anybody really suprised Even before gb had his own forum, he'd come across as the nee plus ultra handgun expert. Seems he quickly learned you can become a legend in your own mind on the internet way back on the All Outdoors coffee shop.

Paul-I remember those days well. And I remember I run-in I had with him when he flatly proclaimed that there was no handgun scope "brighter" than the Leupold 2x20. Turns out, he had never owned used another handgun scope, yet he ranted and raved forever about it because I had dared to disagree with him. At that point, I figured this must be a child on the computer. Turns out, I wasn't too far off base...

Heck,

I was on the All Outdoors Coffee shop too...

I was "handgun hunter" but always signed off with $bob$.

Been doing that since the early 80's.

I remember JJHack used to really rip 'em up back then.

I really don't remember Graybeard from back then.

$bob$

quote:

Originally posted by LDHunter:
Heck,

I was on the All Outdoors Coffee shop too...

I was "handgun hunter" but always signed off with $bob$.
$bob$

I was colt45 on the old All Outdoors Coffee Shop

I was Sean on All Out Door Coffee Shop, and Sean Coombes and then Sean HHI #7364 on Hunting Information Systems Handgun Hunting forum.

Boy, those were the days! Everyone posted at one of those two forums, and there were tens and hundreds of posts and replies a day

Remember how you had lo keep scrolling down to see if there was a reply at the bottom of the thread tree at HIS? LOL

FYI
I really don't have any stake in his site or for that matter this site.........I will say that he gets more "air time" here than AR gets there. The internet gives me the freedom to absorb what I want.......... from where I want....... without having to pacify anyone. I will say there are hundreds of very good people at the GBO site as there are here......nobody will decide for me where I want to go to listen.

The AO coffee shop was a good one, and sorely missed. One of the things I miss most is Jumptramps posts, funny guy. I post with the same name as I do now, but I use my full last name then, and abreviate it now.

JJ's still posting, but mostly over at 24hourcampfire.

Jumptrap is here on AR...

skb2706... Post where you want... It's America...

$bob$

$bob$-
He can post where he wants, but he can't post WHAT he might want to -- if it's at the heavy-handed, highly-censored GBO. I think the old coot still has the word "Bellm" banned from his site. Type it in and get *****

Just for grins, someone with hacker skills should go in and do a search and replace with a bunch of common words like I, you, for, the, a, etc. And have Bellm as the replacement. All the ***** would drive someone over there crazy.

Bobby,



$bob$

OK, guys, a buddy sent me this link, and I checked it out while ago. Not only did he try to humiliate this poor guy for posting (something he should have addressed in a private message), he did it in red letters.

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=72851

Bobby, yeah, what a putz! He could have easily sent the guy a PM or phrased it a bit better. He posts that way as regards simple matters, and yet he gets apoplectic about what we say regarding him when he goes and treats others with a red lettered shyster job for even the slightest of infractions.


Ahhh well, the same old power trip loving control freak narcisistic personality coming out in bold RED

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
OK, guys, a buddy sent me this link, and I checked it out while ago. Not only did he try to humiliate this poor guy for posting (something he should have addressed in a private message), he did it in red letters.

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=72851

''That link now says ''
The topic or post you requested does not exist


Just yesterday he did it again this time to another bulletsmith like me and he also owns his own bullet company .. gray bread deleted every postt his guy ever made no matter on what topic it was .... same old same old ... does this guy ..Have a freaking life ?

Martin

PA Bullet's

Wasn't there a quote in Orwell's "1984" that went something like, "He who controls the present, controls the past. He who controls the past, controls the future."?? I've never heard of a web site being so censored and micro-managed. I rarely go there anymore -- way too many categories to look through and traffic is becoming really s l o w .

So, why is that place doing well? Why doesn't everyone just bail? There are other places to go and speak easy, yet he has over 14k registered users.
I haven't been by there much lately either. It may not be the best idea to have 60 different forums.
I think we should get everyone who's "done" (and others should likewise sign up to play along) to go over and start posting on the classified ads without the disclaimer, just to be asses. Better, just put something like "How much is this worth?" or "Best place to find..." or "Camera (or other non-firearm object) for sale" or "where is the disclaimer?" w/o silly paragraph.
Assinine? Yes. But I just hate to leave without farting or something. Just seems a missed opportunity. Kinda like kicking the fence of a little chihuaua.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana-be:
So, why is that place doing well? Why doesn't everyone just bail? There are other places to go and speak easy, yet he has over 14k registered users.
I haven't been by there much lately either. It may not be the best idea to have 60 different forums.
I think we should get everyone who's "done" (and others should likewise sign up to play along) to go over and start posting on the classified ads without the disclaimer, just to be asses. Better, just put something like "How much is this worth?" or "Best place to find..." or "Camera (or other non-firearm object) for sale" or "where is the disclaimer?" w/o silly paragraph.
Assinine? Yes. But I just hate to leave without farting or something. Just seems a missed opportunity. Kinda like kicking the fence of a little chihuaua.

That person that got the boot was one of my members .. on " our" forum Bwana-be .. the one that does the BMG bullet's.. freaking gray butt... err beard

If GBO claims 14,000 members, there's only one possibility: EVERY time someone re-registered, the old entry is counted. Every OLD membership is tallied. And every BANNED membership is still in the counting coffer. He may even be counting unregistered visitors.

I really doubt there are many more than 1400 -- much less 14000. Ol' GB is manipulating again.

We know you lurk here, GB, so why don't you give us the scoop on the member count???

Well, maybe we will get two more members here.
Here is his latest rant(He really, really means it, guys)

"For any of you who do not think I'm serious on this let me assure you I am. I've deleted the membership of two folks just this week alone for this very issue.

Every single thread I see in violation of this policy on this forum will result in the member's account being completely deleted from the site."

Tomek is on the right track with the membership numbers. Consider that many people will sign up onto forums, enjoy an active membership of several months, and then drift off to other sites when their interests shift. So, there are "active" and "inactive" members signed up on any forum, the sum of which = "registered members.". I remember seeing hoardes of people come and go on the Glocktalk forum until I myself left for a few years. If everyone is so unhappy with the GB forum then they should let his advertisers know. I think that going out of one's way to aggravate GB with spurious postings is counterproductive and substracts from the quality of the experience for shooters who are, in fact, happy with the site. Let's not get caught up in the same pathology that's p*ssing us off.

I visit lots of forums, take what I find, and don't try to change what I don't agree with. Have met some great folks at Graybeard just like I'm starting to meet great folks here. Live and let live. If it REALLY bothers you just don't go there.

quote:

Originally posted by Mayor of Hobbs Knob:
I visit lots of forums, take what I find, and don't try to change what I don't agree with. Have met some great folks at Graybeard just like I'm starting to meet great folks here. Live and let live. If it REALLY bothers you just don't go there.

I am glad you like it here -> GRAYBEARD

Back to the Coffe Shop for a quick minuet. Some of you guys who were there may remember a MR SPIFF. He helped talk me into a Savage Striker when they first came out. Would anyone have any information on him?? I know its been over 10 years, but he was always giving me good advice and I lost contact with him.
I was PHARMUSE on the Coffee SHop.

greybeard is the biggest coward on the forum community. What a piece of shit that guy is.

He's gone a little too far, now! He banned all frame and firearms sales, which is OK if that is what he wants to do; But, he is now turning people's private info over to BATF if he thinks they made a transaction in violation of the law.
Might just get him an ole timey butt whippin if he does that to the wrong person! So, post over there at your own risk.
Melvin

Yep, ol' GB wanted people to go beyond the letter of the law in legally completing transactions of firearms. The law clearly states that ONE FFL is required on the receiving end (unless it's citizen to citizen of the same state where it's legal) to complete a long gun transfer. He said it MUST go FFL to FFL no matter what the firearm may be. ANd now, he plans to turn these people in because they did not abide by HIS rules.


His “illegal†one FFL transactions which he plans to turn over to the ATF will give a few folks in that office quite a bit to laugh about. Yes, it’s his site, and he can do what he wants with it. But to think he is going to dictate to the world that they have to follow rules above and beyond what is clearly outlined by the law of the land is absolutely ludicrous.

And lastly: I wonder if he is still reading the PMs of his members?????

quote:

Originally posted by tommyn:

LOL