I trust you may have some info on this:

Can you give me your thoughts/experience in field shooting deer/hogs on the following:

7mm 120 ballistic tip 2700/140gr 2500 fps

versus

6.5mm 120 gr 2700, or 129 around 2600.

I want to know have you seen, or would you expect to see any measurable difference in performance, to the extent that at normal ranges, say out to 300, no more than 400 yds at extreme, the choice in caliber would influence the ultimate outcome? Curious, as wanted to know if in the real world, medium size animals react differently due to the difference in SD. OR, is bullet construction variations more influential?

Not a trick question, just looking for knowledge on this since you have done much handgunning.....thanks.

Out to 400 yards, with the bullets and velocities you list, there will be no measureable difference in on-game performance when one is talking about thin-skinned species such as deer. Any of those bullets will do the job, though the 129 grain Hornady is reaching the limit of its expansion threshhold around 340-350 yards.

As to hogs, I feel more comfortable with a little more energy to assure putting them down cleanly, but to 275 or even 300 yards, those bullets/velocities all would suffice.

Of those listed, however, I do have a personal favorite, and that is the 6.5mm, 120 grain BT. That's simply because it has always served me well and that I've taken quite a bit of game with it. The others do just fine and can't be faulted, though.

The only thing that would sway my thinking would be if you had listed a 6.5mm, 140 grain bullet at 2550-2600 fps. Whether it's the A-Max for thin-skinned game or a do-it-all load with a 140 grain GameKing, that is the absolute cat's meow for moderate-velocity cartridges and is as efficient a killer as anything you can smack game with.

You can burn a ton more powder and endure much more recoil and muzzle blast, and while you may get a somewhat flatter trajectory, the game will never know the difference.

I forgot to add that the 6.5mm, 140 grainers at 25-2600 fps seem to put game down in its tracks better than anything I have ever used or seen used (not counting brain/spine shots). I do feel that is due to the sectional density and the in-target hang time as the momentum transferred seems to be quite high, hence the high percentage of bang-flops.

After many years of use, I am absolutely sold on those medium-velocity 6.5s with 140 grain bullets and would tackle anything short of the big bears with 'em.

Thanks for the info, I asked, as I was wondering what if any difference would I notice on deer/hogs comparing my 7BR rifle to a 6.5, so I take it 6.5/120BT is a top pick next to a 140/moderate speed 6.5mm.

That said, I guess I'd have to compare the 7mm 120 BT (said to do well from reports) and also perhaps a cup/core or frangible poly tip i.e. BT or SST in 139/140gr. Have used the 120 Hornady SP (rifle bullet) and 130 Speer, but thinking I may gain something by using perhaps a 120 B tip, or 139 SST. Will have to give them a try.

Have some 120 Vmax's that shoot like a house a fire at 200 yds, (that said, I have had 100 hp's, and 110 TNT's shoot bug hole groups as well, even at 200 yds) wind being a consideration, but doubt I can hold any better than the potential of the round. Seems to be a solid 250-300 yd choice in my 21" gun. Have taken 2 deer at close range (120 SP) and one at 150 yds-130 SP/FB. All did their job in short order, but I want BANG FLOPS as often as possible.

What would you choose if shooting a 7BR in a rifle.....looking at 2500-2600 140/130 gr, and 2700-2800 120's as being reasonable loads in hunting temperatures. Thanks Bobby.

BTW, a guy on graybeard forum said a 338 JDJ w/200 gr Hornady at 2350-2400 was devastating on whitetails.

Hmmmm, maybe many rifle hunters are using too much of a good thing, at shorter ranges....none the less, I'd imagine the 338 Whisper on the BR case would do just about that same speed, in a rifle carbine. Something different for sure, not long range, but should be a thumper at woods ranges. Also, seen a 375 version, doubt you would get much expansion, perhaps a 358 version w/handgun bullets would be a bomb....180's at 2500 or so....bettering the 357 max ....and then some.

Any use of the mid bore rounds by yourself? I know one might limit range esp. due to trajectory, maybe 150-200 yd rounds I'd guess. I'd think the 338 Federal might catch on with handgun hunters, like the 35 rem and 350 RM had done w/a few., with less recoil....

Your situation is slightly different in that you have a little more velocity due to the 21" barrel and also because hogs are on the menu. With that in mind, if you can drive the 162 grain A-Max to 2400 fps, it makes a wonderful game bullet at this lower speed - and it would give you the best bang-flop performance for your situation. (Hornady recently beefed up these bullets, by the way.)

As to 300 yard trajectory, it shoots within a couple tenths of an inch of a 139/140 grain bullet and arrives at that range with more than 1450 ft./lbs of energy. The only drawback with this load would be that if you encounter a big, old hog, you'd need to put the bullet tight behind the shoulder instead of through it to ensure sufficient penetration, but that's something to think about with most calibers/bullets anyway.

My 2nd choice in 7mm would be the 120 grain Ballistic Tip at 2700 fps.

If a blood trail is of primary importance, the 140 grain Accubond heads the list. And if you take a slightly high shoulder shot with it, the deer or hog will more than likely go straight down.

Unfortunately, the best choice in 7mm is not as obvious or clear-cut as in 6.5mm. All are more of a compromise but should still serve your intended purpose quite well.

As to the medium-bores, I am not much of a fan and thus have limited experience -- not enough for me to feel my comments would be justified.

Maybe someone else will chime in here.

No problem re: mid bore ?, I will likely keep busy using mostly 6BR, 6.5's, and 7br.....nice to shoot pleasant rounds that work.

I'd guess you get more consistent results in many handguns since moderate velocity helps ensure good penetration with conventional bullets vs same shots made at rifle speeds/where bullets shed lead fast.

On the post re: 162's, that was news to me, have not kept up on the latest but that can't be a bad thing, probably due to Hornady knows the Amax's are being used on game a good bit, heard many glowing reports in past esp 6.5/7/30, I dropped game like lightning with 6/105 6BR but you cannot try busting bone as it is soft, so my deer were lung and head shots, one spine.

Where I am in Louisiana, I saw/killed my first hog last year, and would not want to try a shoulder. Looked like a black bear when it busted out of the thicket in a lane 240 yds, dropped it high shoulder 243/85x in my RSI #1, the bullet worked very well, but it was the only bullet I could have had in the chamber that gave me much confidence in that cal/wt. when I fired. I was sold on what an x bullet can do after that kill.

Expect to see more over time, my friend's land has a 'growing population of hogs' lately and we need to keep them in check.

Anyway, I am not into 'ft. lbs' and shy from the magnum recoil and blast, and like to have my deer 'burgerized' after I bag it, not during the shot! SO, I enjoy picking my shots and using the proper bullets for the situation, always looking for DRT kills when possible. Always nice to gather more field experience, thanks for sharing. Thanks again, good hunting.

6.5BR wrote:

quote:

I'd guess you get more consistent results in many handguns since moderate velocity helps ensure good penetration with conventional bullets vs same shots made at rifle speeds/where bullets shed lead fast.

You are dead on with that comment. That's a primary reason I love the medium-capacity rounds. The one I am using most as of late is a 26" MGM Contender barrel in 6.5 Bullberry IMP with a 1:8 twist.

Using N160, I am getting right at 2600 fps with the 140 grain GameKing and A-Max and accuracy that is superb. I've torture-tested a few cases and still have good, tight primer pockets after 14 firings, so I know the pressures are just fine.

N160 is a bit of a pain to use as I need a drop tube to get it into the case, but the results are certainly worth it.

Funny, that is the only negative I have ever had for the 6.5's, they like slow powder, and stick powder was always less fun using than ball that poured easily. Never used VV powders but should. Top components yield top results.

With cartridges/velocities as we have been discussing, I hardly ever even consider a premium bullet as the conventional projectiles tend to do just fine.

But I did notice that Nosler's ProShop has 140 grain, 7mm Partition 2nds at quite a reduced rate right now. Since you'd be slinging them at 2500 fps, they would do well for your purposes -- especially for the hogs. The front portions are quite soft and will open easily down to 1900 fps and thus would give you solid 300-yard performance.

Just more food for thought...

PS-My 6.5 BB IMP loves the Partitions -- both the 125 and 140s -- but shoots well with everything else, too. I bought a few boxes when Cabela's had them on clearance a while back ($10 per box!) and am saving them for a rainy day.

Thanks for the tip, and again, I appreciate the info. May have to head southwest and get your way sometime. Let me know if you have some hogs and deer that need help!!!!!!!

There are usually hogs around at any given time, but the last 6 weeks have been tough. We had more rain this summer than I ever remember -- and it never reached 100 degrees, something else I don't recall ever happening.

All the rains have made the vegetation so thick that it's virtually impassable, and you can't see anything in it. Then, too, the hogs have plenty of food and water, so they don't have to move much.

I think (HOPE!) things will pick up after the first freeze, when some of the vegetation gets knocked down.

SO you using that custom 6.5 rifle mostly, or do you handgun hunt as well currently? Good hunting this season by the way.

Both -- but I am sure enjoying the 6.5 BB Imp. rifle.

Good luck to you, too. When does your season kick off?

Here it's the first wknd. of November.

Same here, hey have we discussed the 6.5x47Lapua? I am really looking at that round for a rifle, either bolt or single shot.

A buddy years ago had aquired a carbine conversion of a 6.5BR MOA handgun 22" bbl about .650 muzzle straight taper. Dang thing shot bug hole groups all day with 100 BT's and I passed when he sold it as it was a pain to load/unload with a weird safety/hammer operation design. None the less, it was THE thing when you wanted to lay down, have an icicle trigger break, and put the bullet in the precise spot, time and again, with very mild shooting characteristics.

That sale was his most regretted and it may be my biggest regret on passing on something.

That said, I love single shots and was looking a while back at Hall actions, but they were discontinued...

http://www.hallmfg.com/html/falling_block.html

I later heard from outside source they had extraction issues.......but either way, I liked the idea of building say a 6BR on one, but now leaning to a 6.5x47Lapua.

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek072.html

http://www.6mmhot.com/

and below is a neat round, no fireforming but brass supply difficult here....

http://www.6mmbr.com/albums/album_image/1307803/340387.htm

Hagn has a nice falling block in a smallish action;

http://martiniandhagngunmakers.com/actions.htm

Too bad Ruger won't make a smaller action and/or Browning no longer has Low Walls mfg.

I take it you like the Encore for value/performance? Is there an issue with brass stretch? I had a 7TCU, and many others in TC long ago, heard brass stretch happens and also how you position your case in the bbl affects accuracy, said should position brass consistently in dies when loading and again back in the gun to max accuracy? Any comments on that? Just wondering what downside to a break action ss rifle, vs a falling block.

Thanks.