Well I have solved my promblem with my XP in 300WSM.

I took it to my gunsmith this morning at 8:00 am just got home at 1:00 pm.

Guess what we are doing I talked about this a month or so ago and did not get a lot of replys.

If you guys have follwed some of my last post you know what is going to happen.

Yes it is going to come back as a 300 RUM 15 15/16" barrel blue ,fluted,1" at the muzzel,braked(maybe Mag N Ported)all reblued.

So what I need is someone that wants to shoot it first.First load is going to be the lightest load for a 130gr Nosler BT that I can find.Then work up from there.Any thoughts from you guys By the way yes I am nuts we are ready know this so how about other thoughts Wade

Hi Wade:

I have been shooting my Competitor in 300 Weatherby with Federal 180 grainers and it it not all that bad. Of course it has a substantial muzzle brake. I think my Contender with 45/70 heavy loads is worse. It has a 14" SSK barrel without a brake, however. Have fun!

Point of diminishing return? Just curious what kind of performance you are expecting to get from the RUM in the XP. I'm not bashing or knocking your decision...please don't think that! I'm just thinking that if you are looking for more punch, go for more bullet and not more powder. My 14" .338JDJ#2 shoots a 180gr NBT at just under 2500fps with 53gr RL-15. A nice high BC medium weight bullet in .338 would be sweet in a .338-284 or .338WSM bolt gun. I just can't see throwing nearly 100gr of slow powder down short barrel.

Holy muzzle flash Batman. I think you mean 125 grain NBTs.
Dave

Handcannons, I'm not bashing either (but am curious after having followed the thread and your ongoing problems), but as it turned out, what was "the problem?" Gary T.

Damn that was quick,alot more response than I thought.

First the probmlem with the 300 WSM first the bolt face was not flat,cause brass to be short lived,also we thought that might cause some other things in the future.Chamber job was a little rough I never seen it they did at the shop.

Second how does the 300 Weatherby do in your gun.What velocity do get with bullet weights.

Third performance yes I am going to throw a lot of powder down the tube.The RUM works at lower pressures than the WSM so if I can get the same performance out of the RUM as I was doing with the WSM and use the same loads in my 700 PSS as I do in the XP then you can see the befits.Maybe I can do better nobody knows because no one has tried.It would be nice to get the 180gr bullet at 3000fps out of the short barrel since the longer barrel does 3300fps with the 180gr bullet but I would be ok with the 150gr at 3100fps,yes they are high goals that I might never reach but some one as to try it so it might as well be me.Also accuracy has a lot to do with this.

Yes you are right it is 125gr Nosler BT Iwas thinking about the Hornadys.

Last week at the range I shot a 5" group at 400yds with the PSS.It was very hot and right at dark I have a Leupold 4-12 with the dot it covers up my 1" orange target at 200yds.Not the best set up for that range at 200yds it does right at 1 1/2" groups.There was a guy with a model 70 300WSM and a Burris scope with a fine crosshair and 6-24 and he did very bad,we was shooting at a peice of paper with a orange dot.He missed the paper once out of 5 shoots.Same bench and rest.His scope made me realize that I want a higher power scope for my RUM PSS.One of my shots hit the dot.Now we did not shot each other guns so he might not be a good shot so was this a fair test maybe maybe not.

Hope I answered all of your questions

Wade

Wade,
Congrats on your new project.
Bring the gun to me and I will pull the trigger the first time. I remember being a little nervous when I prepared to pull the trigger the first time on the Patriot about 3 years ago and on the 338 Win Mag in the Encore about 5 years ago. My 7 1/2 FA 454 Casuall kicked harder to me than either one of them.
You might want to use your off-hand for the first shot so if it dislocates your shoulder you will still be able to shoot your other handguns. he he he!
xphunter

Barrel is ordered,and on the way.

Was thinking about the stock.Get a new fiber stock form H&S or McMillian or but a metal block in my stock.

Also was curious about venting my Fajen stock under the barrel for better cooling,it is going to be hot.

Wade

Wade,
Congrats on your new project.
Bring the gun to me and I will pull the trigger the first time. I remember being a little nervous when I prepared to pull the trigger the first time on the Patriot about 3 years ago and on the 338 Win Mag in the Encore about 5 years ago. My 7 1/2 FA 454 Casuall kicked harder to me than either one of them.
You might want to use your off-hand for the first shot so if it dislocates your shoulder you will still be able to shoot your other handguns. Hee! Hee! Hee!
xphunter

Ernie,that was the reason I was wanting someone else to shot it first.

I have already had a dislocated shoulder(not from guns)football.

How is your Patriot shooting,it should not be much worse than the RUM,or the RUM should not be much worse.I hope that is.

Who cares as long as it doesn't jump out of my hand and hit me in the head.Recoil don't bother me,but damn it should be fun.

Wade

Ernie;

Forgot to tell you me and the gunsmith talked about doing another RUM in a different cailber if the 300 works.You know they say the only to go is up I guess we will see.

Got to go and shoot my 375/06 JDJ for a while it is actually cool only 86 today,98 yesterday 120 heat index. Wade

Handcannons it must be in the water. I have a Competitor in 375 JRS 16" BBL muzzel brake it not that bad to shoot even with a 300gr bullet. With a muzzel brake on it the 300 RUM should not be bad to shot and for TAKERS tell me when and were

Wade,
The 7.82 Patriot is not bad at all. It kicks a little more than my 284 Win., but it is lighter in total weight. The Patriot is shooting good. It is a keeper. Like I said before, my 454 with 300 grain loads kicked me more than any specialty handgun I have ever shot. The RUM has a larger case capacity than my Patriot. Personally, I doubt if I will build an XP with a larger case capacity than the short action Lazz cases. Don't have the need--at the moment that is. The Patriot will work just fine for what I had it built for-ELK!
My new project is a 6.5-284 XP-100 set up for 1,000 yard shooting. I'm going for accuracy first, then speed (time of flight is very important at long ranges). I'm also going to be playing with two types of rest systems (typical benchrest & the Bower rest system). Comparing to see which will work best with a specialty handgun.
I already have a strong conviction from what I have seen, that the Bower system will do better on an external trigger action. I am unsure about the bolt pistols though. Let me know how things turn out. When is the potential arrival date of your newly modified baby? Mine will be sometime after the first of the year.
Ernie

Handcannon,

Well, I must say that I am a bit curious about your new "LITTLE" handgun. I would very much like to here what she will do. Better put on a full face helmet to shoot that thing, not to protect against being hit with the gun but to keep the skin on your forehead safe from the fires of hell coming from the muzzle.

In all seriousness, I have shot a custom Encore chambered for the 300 Baer round with a 16" pipe. Velocity was about the same as what XP is getting with his Patriot in the Xp-100 but then again we all know the action on the Encore will not allow max loading.

Having alot of experience with the 300 RUM in rifles I will be curious to see just how much velocity you loose. My favorite load is the 180 gr Ballistic Silvertip over a HEAVY dose of H-1000. It clips along at 3440 fps out of a 26" pipe. I would guess a 450-550 fps drop in velocity in your barrel so we'll see.

My XP-100 in 338 WSM is just about finished. The reamer was delayed two weeks or it would be finished right now. My barrel will also be 1" at the muzzle and fluted. I am having the action bead blasted and reblued as well as having a matte finish on the barrel. Hopefully by mid August I will have it on the range for testing.

One last question, why stop at .308" caliber, I have a M700 LSS in 375 RUM that looks like it would work well in an XP. Now that you've raised the bar I will have to do that for my next project, we'll see if you survive your adventure first.

In all honesty, it probably won't kick much harder then your 300 WSM. 30-40 grains more powder with a bit more velocity won't add up to alot of extra recoil, just a real big pretty muzzle flash.

Good Shooting!!!

50

[ 08-06-2002, 23:37: Message edited by: Fiftydriver ]

xp100hunter&fiftydriver;

The due date on my new toy is if I think it should be done and he has not called yet then I am wrong.I know the gunsmith,shoot with him a lot so he treats me real good he is just not all that fast with things like this.If it was a Ruger revolver then it would be a lot faster but he don't rush.Plus he is backed up.But he did say that I would have it back by this time next year???? .

I have been playing with the differnet rest also trying to find the best system.My Encores eat me up after a while on my trigger finger where the frame hit the finger under recoil.My XP do a lot better.

fiftydriver;

A full face helmet might be needed alright when I fired the WSM into the wind you could feel the heat from the fireball blowing back into your face.I am glad to hear about the guy with the 308 Baer,if he is getting what xp gets at a lower pressure then this might not be a bad idea.Me and the gunsmith talked about a 338,375,416,458 RUM in a XP-100 but first thing is first.I want to hear about your 338WSM when youy get to shoot it.I have some WSM cases,don't know if you are forming brass or if they are making 338WSM brass,I have heard of 7mm,270 but not 338 yet.Let me know I have 80 cases new 20 once fired.Don't really want to sell them,if you need them let me know you pay shipping or maybe we can trade for them.I just don't need them.I have been shooting my 300 RUM a lot just shooting for accuracy and my load is with 7828 at only 3150fps but it is accurate.J.D.Jones says 10 to 12 % loss from rifle to pistol barrels at 12% from your figures I will be over 3000fps with a 180gr pill.This is going to be fun.I have set my goals got to wait and see if I can reach them.No I don't think the recoil will be that much worse.One other thing a 300RUM in XP-100 if it will do 300fps with a 180gr pill the 375 RUM with a 225gr pill at 3000fps
Wade

Handcannon,

I assume you are removing the bolt catch so that you just have to remove the bolt to remove a round. This sounds like a pain to most but in shooting and hunting with my LAR 50 BMG with this type of action, it is really no big deal at all. It is amazing just how quick one can run these actions with a little practice.

In playing with my 375 RUM, I have learned a couple things, first of all I would rather take recoil in my hands and arms then my face and shoulder and that it is a suprisingly efficient round. Usinf powders such as H-414 I have been able to drive the 260 gr Ballisstic Tip to a bit over 3200 fps with no pressure signs to speak of.

I am forming my own brass for the 338 WSM. I found out some interesting information on the future of the 338 WSM. My smith contacted his reamer manufacturer with the dimensions I wanted for my 338 WSM and they said there will be a new 338 WSM out soon but like the 338 RUM, they will be shortening the case to allow the long 250 gr .338" bullets to be crimped in the correct location without exceeding the o.a.l. limit of the round.

Is it me or is this a stupid reason to shorten the case. I mean the 340 WBY has been around a while and it will easily fit in a M700 action length with all bullets, why wouldn't the same length RUM case be able to do the same thing.

And wouldn't a bullet manufacturer such as Nolser or Swift relocate the crimping groove on an order for Remington or Winchester that would surely be nead a million bullets or so?

I feel this is why the 338 RUM is not doing as well as the others in this line and a shorter 338 WSM will do the same. Had the 338 RUM been on a full length case, I probably would have got one of those over the 375 RUM at the time. With the advent of the 260 gr .375" Ballistic Tip my choice seems the rifle one for me.

So yes I would be interested in those brass if your sure you want to part with them. Let me know and send me your e-mail address and I will get you a check in the mail.

Let me know.

Good Shooting!!!

50

fiftydriver;

Acutally on my bolt I have a lever on the left side that I push down to remove the bolt.We are still unsure about what we are going to do.Thinking about setting the bolt stop back a little and shorting it also plus removing a little of the back of the action.I don't want to remove any of the action,this is there idea and I am saying NO!!!!.

I like the 375 rounds a lot since I have a 375 JDJ and a 375/06 JDJ.Like I said before I am not a big fan of the 338 in pistols.Never owned a rifle in that cailber.My next rifle will be a 375RUM hence the 375 RUM in my next XP-100.But I want to compare my 376/06 to the 375RUM first and see if it will be worth the expense.My 375/06 does over 2600fps with a 220gr pill,over 2400fps with a 270gr pill and over 2300fps with a 300gr pill.The RUM will do 2800fps with the 300gr pill and 2950fps with the 270gr pill.I know that 700 and XP-100 action are stonger than the Encore.But the 375/06 is only about 500fps slower than the RUM(I know that the RUM can go faster just factory specs. listed).And if you are right that I will lose 500fps in the shorter barrel then there will be no use in doing it.Do you follow me and under stand how I am getting these figures.I know that you and xp100hunter are very knowledable in these areas.Just like to know what you think.If I can pass the 375/06 withe the RUM in a XP by 250fps then I think it would be worth it FOR WHAT WHO KNOWS T-REX IS NOT ALIVE YET!!!!!!!.Wade

Handcannon,

Thanks for your kind words but I would say I don't know much more then you on the subject. All of us are playing in uncharted waters where there will be dangers, failures and success.

I have clearly seen from testing different rounds in rifles and then in handguns that as the bore diameter increases, the rifles velocity advantage decreases. My theory is that this is for a couple reasons.

#1 The larger bore diameter creates a situation that as the bullet moves forward in the barrel, the increased volume of the combustion area increases much faster then a smaller bore round. This allows more powder to convert to gas quicker.

#2 Because of #1, we can load much faster burning powders in the larger caliber rounds which will produce their gas volume quicker and produce more velocity in the shorter handgun barrels.

#3 Again related to the first two rules. Beacause the larger bores allow a larger, quicker powder to gas conversion, we are able to use larger case volumes with these larger bores with much better efficiency.

Lets take the 300 WSM and the 338 WSM as an example. In the 300 WSM, lets say that we are using R-19 or R-22 with a 180 gr bullet and are getting 2800 fps with top loads.

In the 338 WSM(this is my theory yet to be tested) we can use powders in the R-15 range which convert to gas much quicker in a shorter length of barrel, partially because of the quicker burning rate but also because the larger bore allows for much quicker gas expansion compared to the 300 WSM.

From my tests, I believe that the 338 WSM will drive the same weight bullet 125-150 fps faster then the 300 WSM, or it will drive a 20-25 gr heavier bullet to the same velocity as the 300 WSM.

Moving up to the 375 Ultra will increase this advantage even more. This is why relatively small cased big bore rounds do suprisingly well in a short barrel. I would say a 458 Win Mag would loose less then 150 fps from a 22" barrel down to a 15" pipe. This is also why I can drive a 325gr bullet to 1950 fps out of my little 50 A.E. in the Encore using H-110.

The only thing that we give up moving to a larger bore diameter is usually Ballistic Coefficient. But with the new larger bore ballistic tips such as the .358", 9.3mm and .375", this is not really a problem any more. Plus, these bullets may be the single best bullets for hunting big game with these big handcannons.

I would say the 375 RUM will loose alot less then 10-12% from a 24" pipe to a 15" like JDJ says. What ever the velocity loss, it will be far less then its smaller cousins will.

All of this talk about your 300 RUM XP-100 got me thinking last night about an Encore barrel I picked up a few years ago on trade for some artwork I did(I am a wildlife pencil artist as well as a gun nut). The barrel is chambered in 7mm-08 and while ago I noticed that the first .800" of barrel are pitting for some reason. The barrel shoots great but begins to foul in this pitted area quickly.

You got me thinking of a round that was long and large enough to clean this section of barrel up. Since I have learned about not using large headed cases from my 7.21 Tomahawk adventure, I want to stay away from that and even the RUM diameter cases. I am thinking about rechambering to the 7mm STW. This chamber with a bit of throat will easily clean up my pitted barrel. What is your opinion on this round in the Encore?

Good Shooting!!!

50

fiftydriver;

I agree we are going places no man has gone before,with the headaches and slaps on the back that goes with trying new stuff.

As far as why the larger bore is faster I have my own ideas about that.Some of what you said I think is true.

Mainly agree with you but I think that the larger bore creats less pressure with the bigger powder charge or heavier bullet because of the surface area on the rifleing.Plus some other ideas.

On your Encore in 7STW,I think the belted case in a Encore is a unwanted thing.You have to get the belt around the extractror.How about the 280 REM Improve or the JDJ design.

I like the 7-08 in the pistol.My XP-100 in 7-08 is great cheap to shoot and easy to shoot.If you want more power then I think the 7STW would be a good choice.Never shot a belted case in a T/C or the 7STW.Also as you know the Encore has it limits.My 7-08 does 2650fps with a 140gr pill.With ease.What velocity do you expect out of the 7STW?????.

My answer to every thing is if you have the money to do it then go for it.You will never know how you'll like it or how it does until you try it.Not much help!!!!

Let me know what you decide.

Wade

Handcannon,

I would agree with you on the belted case being a bit of a pain in the rear, of course T/C themselves chamber the 7mm Rem Mag and the 300 Win Mag and say full tilt loads are totally fine and safe for this design.

If I were rechambering the 7mm08 just to get a little more performance I would agree that the 280 Rem, Imp, or JDJ would be much better choices then the STW.

BUT, I need a case that is long enough to clean up the .800"-.825" or pitted barrel just ahead of the chamber. All of the 280 based rounds would stop right at the worst part of the pitting while the STW should easily clean it all out.

I really don;t know what to expect with the 7STW in the Encore. I am a bit spooked with my 7.21 project. With that I wanted near 3000 fps with a 140 gr bullet as XPHUNTER was getting 3000 fps with a 150 gr bullet in his Patriot(in the XP of course, big difference I know now).

T/C states that the Encore is fully capable of handling 65,000 psi rounds if case heads are limited to a standard belted magnum(.532"). As such, the STW has quite a bit more capacity then the Tomahawk but also looses about a full inch of usable barrel length because of the longer case.

If I can load safely to 65,000 psi, I expect to get a full 3000 fps with the 140 gr Ballistic Tip, we will have to see. This is the same velocity I hope to get with my 338 WSM in the XP-100 with the 180 gr Ballistic Tips.

Good Shooting!!!

50

I am on your side handcannon!! If you wish for MORE velocity with a given bullet then MORE POWDER is needed! I get so tired of hearing about Effeciantcy and how more powder is just a waste!! ...The same guys shoot the 223 instead of the .221...and the difference is so slight in a 14" to 16" barrel it is almost unknoticed.
I say GOOD for you...Have fun. I have a 30=06 15" barrel for my encore..it IS 200FPS faster than my 308.......but all the Armhair quarterbacks will tell you the 30-06 will not have any gain...or even be less in velocity than the 308..BUNK.

Go pull the trigger!!

Fireball