I have been scouring the internet to find accurate velocity numbers for 300 gr. bullets from a 10" barrel for .44 mag. and the 454 Casull. Anybody have any numbers? I am looking for a round with some punch out to 150 yards.

Thanks,

Jesse

quote:

Originally posted by ruger270:
I have been scouring the internet to find accurate velocity numbers for 300 gr. bullets from a 10" barrel for .44 mag. and the 454 Casull. Anybody have any numbers? I am looking for a round with some punch out to 150 yards.

Thanks,

Jesse

A .450 Marlin ten inch barrel does 350gr/1800fps more or less, depending on loading.
A ten inch 300 grainer (in .44 mag/.454/45-70, etc.) figure on between 1500-2000 at the very high end, depending on a lot of factors. Aiming for around 1650 or so would be a good safe place to start and look at your brass and primers very carefully if you push the envelope. Hands and eyes are nice things to keep. Start low and work up carefully. A couple grains here and there or a change of powder/projectile can make a large difference between a fps increase and a grenade. Personally, I'd not advocate pushing things past 1800fps in any kind of stock barrel/chamber. Custom barrel, chamber, matched dies...then maybe more.

If it were me, I'd go with .45/70...and I have a couple as well as one that doubles as a .450 Marlin. Casull runs super high chamber pressures in comparison at around 50,000psi+. .45/70s can be handloaded to faster velocities than Casulls with significantly lower chamber pressures because of the longer case. Stock box .45-70 chamber pressures are only around 25,000. Casull makes more sense as a revolver cartridge because it's shorter and the wheel can be shorter. In a Contender, not so much.

My two pence.

Is 1450 possible in a .44 mag? Is 1700 possible in a 454? That is all I need to a good 150 yard gun.

Jesse

quote:

Originally posted by ruger270:
Is 1450 possible in a .44 mag? Is 1700 possible in a 454? That is all I need to a good 150 yard gun.

Jesse

Yes and yes, but why don't you like the 45-70? It has more potential to both up and download it. It'll launch 405 and even 500 grainers at a pretty fair clip too, which a 44 mag or Casull won't.

Just wondering...I might also add, if you are going to be pushing the envelope, you want an ENCORE not a Contender. Also, do not waste your money on the "Pro_Hunter". It adds nothing to a basic Encore and arguably adds a fault as the swing hammer is not adequate for scope use.

Yes, the .44 Magnum will do what you want from a 10" barrel.

To minimize the issue of proper bullet performance, you could load up WFN-GC (LBT-style) bullet from Cast Performance and in essence have a 150 yard hammer for deer, hogs, etc.

That bullet, be it in the 275, 300 or 320 grain version, will shoot cleanly through any broadside deer or hog and leave a 1.5" wound channel in its wake due to the wide, flat meplat. I've taken lots of hogs with the 320 grain version from a .44 Mag revolver, and it works like a charm. Put through the boiler room, it results in an immediate loss in blood pressure along with any interest in worldly matters.

For a 150 yard gun, you won't gain anything by going to the Casull -- and you certainly do not want the 45-70 in a 10" barrel.

tom wrote:

quote:

Also, do not waste your money on the "Pro_Hunter". It adds nothing to a basic Encore and arguably adds a fault as the swing hammer is not adequate for scope use.

Please elaborate. I have had no issues with any of mine, though I agree the price difference between a standard and PH frame is a bit perplexing and typical of today's marketing.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
tom wrote:

quote:

Also, do not waste your money on the "Pro_Hunter". It adds nothing to a basic Encore and arguably adds a fault as the swing hammer is not adequate for scope use.

Please elaborate. I have had no issues with any of mine, though I agree the price difference between a standard and PH frame is a bit perplexing and typical of today's marketing.

Swing hammer reliability has not been good according to multiple reports of them falling apart in usage.

Might add this... Broken Encore Hammer and this too.

I'll admit, I drink the Bellm "kool-aide" but he's one hell of a T/C mechanic as far as real world performance maximizing of the platform.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
Yes, the .44 Magnum will do what you want from a 10" barrel.

...


For a 150 yard gun, you won't gain anything by going to the Casull -- and you certainly do not want the 45-70 in a 10" barrel.

I shot a wildebeest with a 45-70 405 grainer from my 10" barrel revolver. It impressed him enough that he fell over mostly dead at 75 yards or so and went clean through him. If one is going to get into T/C stuff beyond one solitary pistol, and this fellow has talked of multiple barrel purchases, which could also lead to stocks and longer barrel lengths, the .45-70 has more options in my opinion and longer brass life but opinions are like...

If it was me, I'd go JDJ and shoot 270 grainers really fast. And you know about my .375 H&H project Encore which is going to be 15.5" and designed around 300 grainers....Need to know more about the person's other gun collection as far as ammo commonality, reloading penchants and equipment, what he intends to hunt, and where, I guess, or else we're all just making presumptive suggestions to a degree.

If I was going to buy a .44 Magnum to hunt deer with, mine would say Ruger Super Blackhawk on it and be done with it. Mine actually does, come to think of it...but then we are outside of the single shot category...If one is inclined to get into switchable barrel T/Cs, there are a lot more options.

Of course, I wouldn't marry myself to "it has to be ten inches" either.

Just thinking out loud. In the final reckoning, if you spend enough money you can make any of those rounds go as fast and be as powerful as he's wanting them to, but you won't be buying off the shelf bits to make it happen. I'll give you that .44 Mag is likely the cheapest way to go and you will be able to buy ammo you want that does what you want in a pinch most anywhere in the world, without having to roll your own.

Life is full of compromises. that's why everybody needs a lot of guns!
Regards,

Tom-

Thanks...that will be something I will keep an eye on with the PHs.

Bobby

Thanks for the information guys, and thanks for keeping the exchange civil on this thread. I do realize that the Contender will not work for what I have intended, but thanks for putting the informaton out there in case a novice is looking. I don't really have a staisfactory answer as to why I don't want the .45-70, it just really doesn't sound interesting to me. As soon as I can get this all put together I will do some load work up with a chronograph and post some detailed results.

Jesse

quote:

Originally posted by ruger270:
Thanks for the information guys, and thanks for keeping the exchange civil on this thread. I do realize that the Contender will not work for what I have intended, but thanks for putting the information out there in case a novice is looking. I don't really have a satisfactory answer as to why I don't want the .45-70, it just really doesn't sound interesting to me. As soon as I can get this all put together I will do some load work up with a chronograph and post some detailed results.

Jesse

Not a problem...we all just got a bit hot-headed in a thread over taking head shots on large game animals around this time last year...We're generally civil...

There's a lot of ways to skin a cat with Single Shot pistols and all that matters is you figure out which ways appeal to you in a safe fashion, because you don't want a grenade or something that breaks open on it's own when fired, as I've seen happen more than once when people pushed the envelope hard, even with Encores.


.44 Rem Magnum is hands down all around the easiest to find ammo that will still do mostly what you want commercially if you end up on a hunt with a lack of home-rolled ammo for some reason. Same reason my Africa rifles are in .300H&H, .375H&H and .458 Lott as will be the Africa Encore I'm building up with the great assistance of Mike Bellm.

For whatever it's worth since you got me thinking on it. One of my acquaintances from my TSJC gunsmith school days has a penchant for hunting bears a lot in the lower 48, and Grizzled ones at least once a year. He builds some of the nicest full house custom high powered hunting revolvers suited for that sort of thing over in Alabama.

I was there the day at TSJC where one of his envelope pushing custom chamberings, I believe he had designated that one the .458/400 with custom 5 round wheel (Magnum Research BFR before they built BFRs,more or less), managed to blow the entire top of a Super Blackhawk wheel as well as the top strap and part of the front of the frame into small pieces in the testing chamber. He, nearly twenty years later, is still building big bore revolvers for hunting purposes professionally in a range of calibers and he's personally settled on 330 grain .44 Magnum hard-casts for himself as his caliber/loadings of choice that are the best compromise as far as solid bear stopper and also useful for the deer sized animals and up. I spoke with him on the phone about it at some length a while back. I can almost assure you, he's tried about every large .44/.45 caliber one can chamber in a handgun and is meticulous in his work. He was one of the guys at gunsmith college that one could tell was destined to be much more than a hobby smith who ended up back fixing sports/race cars after the college like I ended up.

I know you aren't keen on .45/70s, but for a bit of levity, I have photographic evidence that they will at the very least kill African squirrels when one wants a bit of extra camp meat. Knocks 'em clean out of the trees...and adds a bit of horizontal flight too with 405 grainers. Hey! It was the only handgun I had handy at the time and I don't eat squirrel brains anyway...

I agree with you 100% about wanting to make it a "hunt"! For instance, this year I finally fullfilled a lifelong dream to own a Ruger No. 1, and I am going to use it to hunt coues in Arizona in October. The gun is chambered in .405 Winchester and I will be using a peep sight. I want to make the hunt as interesting and challenging as possible.

In all honesty, by the time I get the funds together to purchase an Encore, I will more than likely choose a cartridge that will allow me to hunt from 150 on in, with the closer the better. The 200+ yard hand cannon is really just a "can it be done" scenario, that if I had the money I would experiment with heavily.

Once again, thanks for the answers.

Jesse

Hi Jesse,

My .44 Mag is a 12"er from Match Grade Machine setup on a G2 frame.


I'm shooting 240 grain JHC Nosler's in it and it is a shooter. I've got it zeroed at 100 yards and it is about 4" low at 150. I haven't chronographed it yet, but I should be getting about 1600fps IIRC from my reloading manuals.

This will be my whitetail "woods" gun this year. I think that you made a good choice by going with a 10" barrel. Good luck!

X,

That is a fine looking pistol! Have fun in the woods with it.

Jesse

quote:

In all honesty, by the time I get the funds together to purchase an Encore, I will more than likely choose a cartridge that will allow me to hunt from 150 on in, with the closer the better. The 200+ yard hand cannon is really just a "can it be done" scenario, that if I had the money I would experiment with heavily.

Once again, thanks for the answers.

Jesse

Sportsman's Finest in Bee Cave, Texas just sold me a New in Box Standard Encore Frame Walnut/Blue as I wanted for $310 (and tax cos I live here in Texas). I think he has a couple more around, though mostly stainless. Dunno where you are located, but he's been beating Everybody else around here and on GunBroker.com on Encore prices. Look around and you might find a deal.

Barrels are up to you. I've got T/C, EAB, Shilen, Bellm, and likely a Bergara soon. All have their finer points but Bellm/Bergaras seem to show the most potential. They are really anal about their manufacturing.

http://www.bergarabarrels.com/

Oh, and if you happen to come across a Leo 2-7 handgun scope, snap it up. Leo seems to have discontinued it as of looking up current pricing for another one on their website yesterday when I was at the gunshop/range. Dealer only-Handgun scope pricing web page is now only showing 2x and 4x now. No variables.

Also on optics, an extra screw in the base is not a bad idea and I've also become partial to 3 ring setups.

Regards,

It's one of the "I wish I hadn't sold it" cases. I had a blued Encore frame, but sold it (along with almost all of my other guns), for financial reasons. I wouldn't really want any of my barrels back (15" 270, 15" 308 and 15" 223), but I wish I had the frame. The .270 barrel was really a great shooter from the TC Custom shop, with the TSOB scope mount, three rings and mag-na-porting, but I have different tastes now. I never could get the accuracy out of it that I wanted, I was using a 2x scope, but it shot well enough for my purposes (1.5 MOA).

I have some extra equipment at home that I am going to sell, and hopefully I can get another Encore frame shortly...if my wife doesn't "appropriate" the funds for a higher purpose.

Jesse

I seem to recall for the short time I owned a 10 inch barrel for my Encore the Winchester 300 gr 454 factory load clocked something like 1650 fps. The ergonomics of the Encore wood, plastic, and even custom grips just never agreed with me so my Encore became a rifle.

Can't tell you about 300 gr 44 magnum bullets but my Africa load for my 10 inch Contender was a 320 gr WFN PB at 1375 fps. I didn't have any data for that weight so I used the starting load data for 300 gr jacketed I found on the label of the H110 bottle and called it good. Killed a zebra, warthog, blesbok, and an impala with it, all shots taken in the 50-100 yard range.