Hey Guys,

A few weeks ago Rich Jake asked me if I had any experience with the new Hornady SST bullet. I wasn't even aware they had a new product, but since have gotten some and tried them. I got the Hornady 150 gr. SST and compared them against the Nosler 150 gr. BT. I loaded the Noslers with my hunting load at 48.0 gr. Win 760 at velocity of 2282 f/s. The hornadys have a different shape ogive and need to be seated about 0.2" deeper in the brass, so I reduced the load for them to 47.5 gr. Win 760, but it gave a velocity of just 2231 f/s so I don't think the reduction of powder was necessary. I shot four of each bullet into sloppy wet telephone books at 100 yds., recovered the bullets and weighed them. Here is the comparison.

150 gr. Nosler BT
58.0 gr. recovered (jacket only)
12" penetration
3" damage channel
39% of weight recovered

112.8 gr. recovered (mushroomed)
16.5" penetration
3" damage channel
75% of weight recovered

96 3 gr. recovered (lead core almost separated)
14" penetration
2.5" damage channel
64% of weight recovered

108.8 gr. recovered (mushroomed)
15" penetration
2.5" damage channel
73% of weight recovered

150 gr. Hornady SST
75.4 gr. recovered (jacket gone)
14" penetration
2.5" damage channel
50% of weight recovered

119.3 gr. recovered (mushroomed)
14" penetration
2.5" damage channel
80% of weight recovered

123.5 gr. recovered (mushroomed)
14" penetration
2.5" damage channel
82% of weight recovered

124.9 gr. recovered (mushroomed)
14" penetration
2.5" damage channel
83% of weight recovered)

It is surprising that the first Nosler and the first Hornady came apart. However, overall, the Hornadys did quite a bit better in that three mushroomed well and a larger portion was recovered at the terminus of the damage channel.

I plan to switch to the Hornadys, but if you do, make sure you rezero as the Hornadys shot about an inch higher at 100 yds than the Noslers.

A curious thing with the Noslers too. On two of the recovered bullets there was a lead deposit on the outside of the jacket on the base and the boat tail that looked like it had been soldered on with a soldering gun- - actually fused on. Can't explain that one.

I then went on to shoot two 3-shot groups with each bullet. The Nosler 3-shot groups were .564 and .382 inches while the Hornadys were .892 and .541 inches. So the Noslers are a little better for groups, but all are plenty good for huning.

Hope that will help out,

Don Shearer

Don
Thanks again for your time & work to test these bullets! I can hardly wait to see what they do on Game !
Rich Jake

Seems to me that the Noslers are more UNPREDICTABLE with the expansion and retained weight...Well Both are really.
Are their bullets on the market that wil do the same thing every time?

Fireball

Is the first bullet a Nosler BT and all others in the results Hornady SSTs? OOPS JUST READ WHAT Don WROTE AND THIS IS CLEAR!
:
308 Bellm I suppose?

LouisB

May have to get some SSTs and test them in the Herrett.

Ok, Now I gotta lug a bunch of wet, heavy phone books out to the 100 yd line and pieces and parts back!

Wait, I'll just wait till later in the year and shoot here at the house!

[ 10-29-2002, 06:18: Message edited by: TCLouis ]

LouisB
Clean up is a lot of fun after that too!
Rich Jake

TC Lou,

The first 4 listings are Nosler and the 5th to 8th are Hornadys. Note the first one has a Nosler heading and the fifth has a Hornady. I could have made that a little more bold I guess.

Don Shearer

Don
I think it's important for the guys to remember that you used 1/2 a grain less powder & got almost equivilent performance out of the Hornadys as far as damage channels were conserned.
Rich Jake

[ 10-29-2002, 13:18: Message edited by: Rich Jake ]

Don Shearer,

I will not argue with your results as it seems you tested these bullets as fairly as possible without a lab test enviornment but I do question choosing the SST over the BT bullets at least in the larger handgun rounds, let me explain why.

You list your test velocity between 2230 and 2280 fps for a 150 gr SST and BT, caliber was not listed, can be very important, a 150 gr .277" bullet will react much different then a 150 gr .308" bullet.

Anyway, I am not sure what round you are using, I assume something in the 300 Savage or smaller class for an Encore or 309 JDJ in the Contender with these velocities. At these velocities, the SST or Interlock bullets from Hornady may be the best choice, but not because they are a better bullet.

The Hornady line of bullets are a light jacketed design with a soft core and a mechanical interlock ring in the base of the bullet. By comparision, the BT has quite a thick jacket, an extremely thick base and about the same hardness of core.

The Hornady bullets will mushroom great at these low 2250 fps ranges but will not perform near as well at higher velocities. In my 7mm RUM Encore, the Hornady bullets, traveling at 2875 fps at the muzzle have a failure rate(core jacket seperation) of about 50%. The 140 gr Ballistic Tip, while it will loose nearly 50% of its weight, will seldom shed its core when driven this fast.

The problem is that the BT is designed to expand at higher velocities and such needs them to do so. If they do not impact with high enough velocity, the jacket slightly opens without the core and the hydralic forces seperate the jacket from the core.

When the BT impacts at higher velocities, the core expands over the jacket and keeps this seperation from happening.

The SST and Interlock bullets are better for low velocity simply because they expand much easier at lower velocities.

So if you using low velocity loads, then maybe the SST is a better bullet, BUT, if your using high performance loads in high intensity rounds where muzzle velocity is in the +2800 fps range, I have witnessed the Horandy bullets fail terribly compared to the BT bullets.

I have had customers come in complaining that their Hornady bullets failed to penetrate on game, so I load them up some BT loads and have yet to have any complaints.

One resent example was a fella using the 7mm STW and the 162 gr SPBT from Hornady. He had harvested four nice Mule deer bucks with this load but on three, which were hit in the spine, all had failed to punch trough the spine, they cut the spinal cord but all were stopped cold by the spine. He really didn't mind since all that was needed was a finishing shot when he walked up to the bucks.

Then he was trying to fill a doe permit and hit a doe dead square in the shoulder at a range of 325 yards. She simply ran off with a broken leg and he was unable to track her down. Later on in the week he was lucky enough to see a doe limping in the same area and finished her with a neck shot.

He found that the first shot had centered the shoulder knuckle and destroyed it but penetrated no more.

He had had enough of this poor performance over several years and many different lots of Hornady bullets so he came to me wanting a better choice. I had been using the 140 gr Ballistic Silvertip for many years with amazing results and loaded him up a load that produced 3495 fps(rifle) and 1/2 moa accuracy. Since then he has taken several large bodied bucks and never recovered a bullet from game. Now it is the only bullet he will use from his 264 Win Mag up to his 7.82 Warbird.

For game under 500 pounds, I feel there is no better bullet then a ballistic Tip as long as it is loaded to good velocities for their design. So for the low velocity loads, I conceed that they are not the best but for high velocity handguns they are very difficult to beat.

Just Monday, I harvested a large Mule deer doe with a 180gr BT out of my 338 WSM XP-100. This bullet is loaded to 2980 fps out of the 15" pipe. There was a 1.5" hole going in the chest cavity and the same exiting. There is no better performance one could expect from a handgun bullet. It was a 178 yard shot with no bones hit except ribs and she fell in her tracks.

I have no confidence in the Hornady medium to small caliber bullets for use on big game, just witnessed to may failures and heard of to many to recommend them to anyone. Varmint bullets and match bullets are another story but no Hornady bullets for me for big game, just my opinion.

Good Hunting!!!

50

Fiftydriver
You missed the second part of Don's post. In it He explains that the comparison was with 150 Grain bullets out of the 308Bellm.

You also missed that the Nosler Balistic Tip was at 2280 fps.

The Hornady SST's were at 2230 fps.

So the platform which the comparison was made was for the range of 2230-2280 Fps.

The reason the test was done was that I had told Don that I had been using the SST's & was getting pretty good results with these bullets on targets. I was particularly interested in them because they had the interlock within the bullet that was suppose to keep the bullet from sheading the core.

I had done testing with Nosler Balistic Tip & found they would spit out their core at the speeds fired from the 300 Whisper & 308 Bellm. Which goes from 2000 fps to 2300 fps. I had not had a chance to test the Hornadys

Since Don had no first hand knowledge of these bullets he told me he would look into them. Which brings us to his two posts.

While the Nosler Balistic Tip is a good performing bullet it bothers me that they do have jacket core seperations.

I have shot 150 Grain Balistic Silver Tip out of my Ruger 77 .308 Rifle & have gotten the same results from the Noslers & recovered the bullets from two deer shot at 40 yards. They were both 1 shot kills, but in both cases the bullet had core jacket seperation. They were fired at a muzzle velocity of 2750-2800 fps. The core in both cases were nothing but little fragments & the jacket was found futher on in the deer.

I have no Knowledge of the SST's performance at the distances & the speeds that you & your friends are shooting them, but I think in the Parameters that we are talking about they seem to perform better than the Noslers.

Since you have peaked My curiosity I will try the SST's out of my 308 Rifle & see if they perform as well as they have in the 308 Bellm & the 300 Whisper. Unfortunitely it is too late for this year, so I will have a project to start on after the season is over.

Rich Jake

[ 10-31-2002, 03:40: Message edited by: Rich Jake ]

My experience shooting the the Nosler BT into saturated newsprint has always yielded core/ jacket separation.This was in a 270,130gr.bullet out of a 22in. barrel with max loads.Have never taken any game with them.Been using Hornady Interlocks for many years in a variety of calibers on Whitetails and have never been disappointed. They expand beautifully to a perfect mushroom in wet newsprint or multiple water jugs and almost always leave an exit hole on Whitetails.

Rich Jake & Longrifle,

I will not argue with your first hand experience, but I can not dismiss the experience I have witnessed using both bullets.

I did miss which caliber was being used but I did state the correct velocity range of 2230 to 2280 fps.

All I am saying that from the game I allong have haarvested with a handgun chambered in a long range round, I have yet to have one failure with the Ballistic and Ballistic Silvertip. I have seen first hand, eight failures with the Hornady Interlock bullet, but in all fairness, I have not tested the SST as I have no desire to do so from past experiences.

I also use these bullets exclusively in all of my rifles that I hunt 500 pound game and under with, which amounts to many fold more game harvested then with handguns and still I have yet to have one failure. The list includes:

Handguns:
7mmBR 120 gr Ballistic Tip 2475 fps
7mm08 140 gr Ball. Silvertip 2565 fps
270 140 gr Ballistic Tip 2650 fps
7.21 Tom. 140 gr Ballistic Tip 2800 fps
7mm RUM 140 gr Ball. Silvertip 2860 fps
338 WSM 180 gr Ballistic Tip 2950 fps

Rifles:
243 95 gr Ballistic Tip 2975 fps
6mm-284 95 gr Ballistic Tip 3650 fps(30"B)
25-06 100 gr Ballistic Tip 3440 fps
7mm Rem M 140 gr Bal. Silvertip 3395 fps
300 RUM 180 gr Ball. Silvertip 3400 fps

All of these rifles and handguns have harvested mutipule game animals and some many of them. Not one single failure.

I repeat from my previous post, for low pressure, low velocity rounds, the Ballistic Tips are not the bast choice but for high velocity rounds they will perform at least as well as any Hornady bullet, at least from what I have seen.

If they work for you, great, confidence in your bullet is half the battle.

Good Hunting!!!'

50

Hey Guys,

In my first post about the comparison between the Noslers and Hornady SSTs I did omit one important point, and later posted an addition including it. Somehow the addition became separated from the original post.

The bullets were 308s, and fired from a 308 Bellm Contender at between 2231 and 2280 f/s. Those are typical velocities for 150 gr. bullts from the Contender. I fired a total of 4 of each bullet into wet telephone books which is certainly not an exhaustive test and I don't claim it to be.

I did say I intended to shoot the SSTs this year, as I think this test shows them to be a bit better than the Noslers I had used earlier.

I most certainly do not (and did not) claim the SSTs are superior in all calibers in all guns at all velocities, and I didn't say that or even imply that. What I did was make a comparison on a very limited scale, drew a tentative conclusion and gave the forum the benefit of the experiment. Please don't try to read any more than that into it.

Don Shearer

Don
Thanks again for the experiment that you did do. I was planning on using the SST's this year on game with the 308 Bellm anyway. Hopefully I'll get a chance to report on it's performance first hand later this year.
Rich Jake

Fiftydriver
I'm not at all saying that Nosler Bal Tips don't work . I persoanlly feel that they shouldn't shed their cores at the velocities that we were talking about. I also will try new things as they come out to see if maybe someone has come out with something better. Who knows maybe, I'll just feel that the Noslers are best for my hunting purposes & go back to them.

I don't think that I will be shooting anything at the type of velocities that you were talking about. It is strange though I got the same Jacket core seperation with The Balistic Silver tips at a velocity of at least 2750 Fps out of the 308 Rifle.

I'm always going to look for the better bullet for my purposes ! I just can't help it !

Rich Jake

Don Shearer & Rich Jake,

Please do not take what I have posted as an attack on your experience in any way because it is not. Every test will have different results in one way or another.

I will say in fairness to your test that I have never used the Ballistic Tip bullets in any handgun or rifle that did not have at least 2500 fps muzzle velocity and most I use still have this same 2500 fps on impact so I agree that these bullets may behave much different at lower velocities.

This post did get me thinking about if I had ever had any poor performance with any Ballistic Tip or Ballistic Silvertip bullets and upon reviewing my notes, I found one example what fits your discription except in a vastly different round.

I had a fella come to me wanting an ultra velocity round for his 300 RUM for deer hunting at extreme range. My suggestion was the load I use which drives the 180 gr Ballistic Silvertip to 3400 fps using H-1000. He wanted more speed even though I tried to tell him B.C. is just as if not more important at long range then muzzle velocity.

He wanted to use the 150 gr ballistic tip so I produced a load which drove the bullet to just shy of 3700 fps. But this bullet at these speeds acted much like a varmint bullet under 200 yards. A 150 gr Partition performed better but not by much as the big 300 ruptured the partition on nearly every bullet during penetration testing.

We moved up to the 168 gr Ballistic Silvertip and loaded it up to 3600 fps with 1/2" groups at 100 yards. In penetration tests, my notes show that nearly all of these bullet shed their core. In fact the jacket expanded only slightly and the core simply slipped out. The only deformation to the core was the loss of the tip and a bit of nose deformation.

I concluded that these cores were made from an alloy which was much to hard and would not allow the jacket to grip the core or to allow it to expand.

We switched to the big 180 gr BST at 3375 fps and all expanded great. At 100 yards, they lost alot of weight but none lost their core, at least not the base of the core.

As with your testing, this was quite limited testing but enough to feel confident with the results.

Again, please do not take my posts as a shot to you in any way, it is amazing how endless the experiementation can be in out sport, I guess thats the appeal of it for me.

Good Hunting This Year!!!

50

Fiftydriver

Again, please do not take my posts as a shot to you in any way, it is amazing how endless the experiementation can be in out sport, I guess thats the appeal of it for me.

Good Hunting This Year!!!

50

I'm glad we discused this further as I know I still have a lot to learn. It's great when you can have a discussion about a topic without anyone getting their nose out of joint.
I feel that I learn more with back & fourth we had. Maybe the 30 cal 150 gr Nosler exhibit these characteristics & don't at heavier weights? Maybe the velocity is a big part of it as well?
Thanks
Rich Jake

This is an interesting discussion. I have not tested in any kind of medium, but I have hunted antelope, mulies, and whitetails with Ballistic Tips. The first was in a 14 inch 7-08 XP-100. Muzzle velocity was 2,540 FPS. Shots made from a 100 yards to 350 yards where with always with good results. When I stepped up to my 284 Win. XP-100 I used the same bullet and have even shot one elk with a Ballistic Tip. Muzzle velocity with it is 2,750 FPS with distances being the same or a little longer with the same results. So far they have not failed me. I have seen a core jacket seperation on two occasions but the bullet did so much damage that one shot was more than enough.
With 30 caliber with MV at 3000 FPS with a 150 Ballistic Tip I have taken a large cow elk @ 300 yards. I had complete penetration with. Didn't find the bullet, but the elk was about 50 yards from where I shot her.
That is my experiences for what they are worth.
xphunter

[ 11-08-2002, 18:41: Message edited by: xphunter ]

If anybody is interested, I have a total of 190 Barnes 30/30 308DIA 165 grn. bullets. These bullets were designed for the velocity of the 30/30 and are no longer made. Should be great in 30 cal. handguns.

My XP 6.5-284 has taken a large 300 yd. bighorn ram, a 330 yd. cow elk, and a 350 yd. doe antelope with excellent performance from the 129 gr. SST at 28-2900 f.p.s. m.v. All bullets exited with about a nickel-quarter size wound.

Uh oh-- somethin's wrong here. How in the world did I (sscoyote) get XPHunter's handle????

[ 11-22-2003, 10:17: Message edited by: xphunter ]