Hi, I need to start out by saying that though I have not posted more than a few times over the years I read this site regularly and am always getting great info. I am thinking of a change and looking for opinions. I once owned a 10" 7-30 Waters and sold it when I switched over to stainless at which point I decided to pick up a 14" 7-30 for the improved performance. The problem is I never seem to want to carry it. I usually use a 10" 44 mag barrel but sometimes need to reach out to 150 - 200 yards and need something better suited for midwestern whitetails at that range. I am torn between cutting the 14" down to 12" and using it or looking for another cartridge suitable to contenders in a 10-12" barrel. I hesitate to cut down such a great barrel but I seem to prefer the encore when it comes to longer barrels and like to keep the contender short and handy. Thanks for any tips or suggestions. I should also mention that I do reload and own several vvcg and bullberry barrels so do not object to custom if that appears to be the best option.

A 10-12" barrel certainly does make the Contender handy to carry. What I'd recommend is going with a 12" version in a cartridge such as the 7 TCU, .30 Herrett or .30 Bellm (http://www.bellmtcs.com).

Even in a 10-inch version, all are efficient enough to take full advantage of the available barrel length, and inside 200 yards, any of those will work wonderfully on deer. The 120 grain Nosler BT in the 7TCU or the 125 grain BT in the aforementioned .30s will give you positive expansion and plenty of punch for deer.

Despite what a few may claim, the Waters performs best given at least 14" of barrel length. I would not cut it back.

Lastly, I recommend going custom with your purchase. As you are aware, there are a number of options out there, the latest of which is http://www.matchgrademachine.com

I'm also a big fan of the 10" contender as a compact package, but I'm also aware that the chamberings that perform best at that length are limited, especially when you are looking for 200 yd performance. The 357 Maximum is perhaps one of the best, if you lean on it, it'll drive a 180 gr to 2000 fps, and with a 150 yd zero, that puts you just about in there for 200 yds.

Another option would be the nearly forgotten 30 Herret. It'll push a 110 gr over 2000 fps, and while that is no powerhouse at 200 yds, it'll do it's part if you do yours.

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I had been considering both the tcu and 357 max as alternatives but understood the 7 tcu looses too much velocity to expand properly at long range out of a short barrel. Also was not sure of the stopping power of the 357 max at that range. As for Match Grade Machine, I have already posted similar questions on their site and left a message for Jeff. Decisions, decisions. I will let you know what I do decide on. Love new projects.

Vic L.

Vic-The info you heard regarding the 7 TCU is simply bogus. The 120 grain BT WILL expand down to around 1600 fps, and a 12" custom barrel can safely drive it to 2200 fps. Inside of 200 yards, a PROPERLY-LOADED 7mm TCU will take any whitetail or mule deer that ever walked.

It is the .357 Max that really begins to lose steam beyond 150 yards. Inside that, though, it's terrific.

But you need to be able to sort fact from fiction to make a qualified decision.

Bobby I appreciate your thoughts and as you said the hard part seems to be separating fact from fiction. I believe it was the Sierra loading data that mentioned too low a velocity out of ten inch barrels but they were the only ones to mention it. Since both the 7 TCU and 7-30 Waters seem to reach similar velocities with a 120 gr BT is it a question of burning all of the powder that causes you to not recommend the Waters in a 12" barrel?

First, Sierra mentions this simply because of THEIR SSP bullet design (no longer produced, by the way). Please understand that the Nosler BT I recommended is completely different.

With the Waters, the capacity is such that to realize it potential, you do need at least 14 inches of barrel length. Otherwise, you are burning more powder, absorbing more recoil and enduring more muzzle blast for the same velocity that the more efficient 7 TCU provides. And in a good custom barrel, the little TCU will safely reach 2200-2250 fps (even approaching 2300 fps) in a 12 inch barrel. A 14-15 inch barrel will give you an honest 2400 fps. Given 14-15 inches of barrel length, the 7-30 will approach 2500 fps with a 120 grain bullet, but the best (most accurate and most consistent loads) generally fall in the 2400 fps range -- or at least that has been the case in the Waters barrels I have owned.

Another factor to consider is frame wear and maximum pressures. YOu can run the TCU full-throttle due to the small case head size. With the Waters, pressures must generally be limited to the 38-40000 cup range (reading pressure in a Contender is NOT the same as doing so with a bolt rifle). Backthrust is the demon here, and without getting into a full-blown explanation, let me just direct you to http://www.bellmtcs.com , where a ton of terrific information can be had.

I agree that the 7/30 needs the length to max it's performance at the distances you mention. Perhaps you'd carry it more it you had a holster meant to accomodate it. Have a look at the bandolier hoster offered by Fox Ridge the TC customs shop.

Vic, You've been given some good recs already, but I'd like to add one more round to consider, the 300 Whisper (AKA 300/221). My 12" 300/221 from VVCG will safely push the 125 gr. NBT to 2250 fps w/ very good accuracy. It's basically a ballistic twin to the 30 Herrett; the 30 Herrett, of course, has an excellent, and well-deserved, reputation as a very capable deer cartridge. Brass is more easily avaiable than the Herrett. The 300/221 also has the "small case head advantage" mentioned by Bobby. It' been a few years since I shot my 300/221 at game as I found myself playing w/ some "newer toys," but I've just about talked myself into taking it back out in the woods. Gary T.

One other thought on the 30-221 aka 300 whisper, a rimmed varient is easily made by usind 360 DW brass, or 357 max if you like trimming A barrel with a rim recess will still take the rimless 221 case as well.

I personally prefer a rimmed round as it is easier to manipulate with gloves on.

just a thought, as I have no experience (yet) with this round, but how about the new 6.8 SPC/Remington? I've heard good things about in a G2 contender but don't remember the quoted barrell length.

Troy

I know this is G2 carbine info, but I have a 18" Bullberry in 7 TCU and we killed 6 does this year with it from 25 -130 yds. It's my new favorite gun....6x Weaver puts it under 6 lbs!!

I'm using the Speer 115 gr HP at about 2100 and they are "sudden death" when placed in the ribs. A friend's daughter who missed deer the last two years with a shotgun, killed a nice doe with it at about 60 yds using the 7 TCU.

I can't say enough about the 7 TCU...it's accurate, doesn't kick and kills deer just as dead as a 300 Weatherby!! Try it...you'll like it!!