I'm sorry to say that my first experience with VVCG was not as expected:

On April 2, 2003, I placed an order for a barrel and forend with Dave at VVCG. The same day, I approved the written work order, which included all of my specifications. I was told at the time that it would take 8 weeks.

I didn�t hear anything after about 10 weeks, so I figured maybe I should see what the problem was. Dave told me that it would be about 2 more weeks.

About the same time, I decided to order an Encore frame from them as well. Dave took the order, during which I told him the trigger pull wt. Dave told me he�d send out the papers the next day so I could get the handgun frame added to my pistol permit. Ten days later, I still did not have my paperwork. I contacted Dave, who said that he thought that he had sent it out. It arrived shortly thereafter.

On August 8, 2003, I received my barrel. That makes it 18 WEEKS!! After 18 weeks, you�d figure �well, at least you got what you ordered�, but I didn�t. It was a simple order, but somehow �4-hole� scope mount ended up being �6-hole�, the fiberglass forearm paint had a small chip on the exterior, and the interior was sticking to the hanger bar. I cast the chamber, and it appears to be as ordered. I was credited $65 for �time delay�, which doesn�t make up for a whole summer of shooting I lost.

I finally got the paperwork completed for my frame, so my FFL contacted Dave. He then contacted me asking what trigger pull wt. I desire. This is something which should have been written down during the original order.

Now Dave might be the nicest guy in the world - sure sounds it on the phone - and VVCG might be a great company (the barrel finish, crown and forearm fit looks beautiful), but as a first time customer, it�s going to be hard to convince me to try again. I�ve written down dates, times and kept e-mails, so I can back up everything I�m saying. I will give Dave credit for one thing - though he never gave me an explanation for many of the delays, he also never gave excuses.

I know many of you are prepared to defend them, which is fine, but put yourself in my shoes first. I ordered this barrel in good faith. It was an uncomplicated order. I waited patiently. I did not call weekly to check on the progress (if there is a problem, I expect someone to call me). The few times I did leave a message was rarely returned - the second (and more vocal) call usually got a response. I called 2 weeks after the due date, and was told it would take 2 more. I finally got my barrel after 18 weeks, and it wasn�t exactly as ordered. Do I have the right to be upset?? Maybe I�m just the one unlucky one that �fell through the cracks�.

Even if this barrel shoots .000" groups, I don�t know if it would make up for the aggravation, but in the interest of being fair I will post a follow-up after I work out some loads and get it to the range. In the meantime, if any of you plan on ordering from ANYONE, my advice is to get as much in writing as possible (or e-mail), and/or write down dates, times and who you talked to - it makes it much easier in the end if there is a problem.

Erict
Sorry to hear your problems with VVCG's. I know from experience that these kind of things can get you down! I had it with another barrel maker. Hopefully after all is said & done you 'll be happy with your barrel. Just out of curiousity what caliber did you order??
Rich Jake

You should feel honored to be a part of the custom experience. I waited 9 months for a 2 month job.
Give them a chance they may have had hemmorhoid problems, ingrown toenail, dark of the moon, their dog may have had kittens or a piece of machinery may have taken a puke.
Things can and do go wrong and I would give a good chance to make it right in a very timely manner but after a good chance I would try to make them feel like a dog that has had his rectum corncobbed and turpentine poured on it.
I would utilize the Internet, Better Business Bureau, and maybe a few letters to some gun mags for the peoples column.
Save all correspondence with then so you can provide proof in case the feces hits the fan.
Let them set the tone of how to deal with them.

I have had similar experiences with several of the custom manufacturers. This is one of the risks you take to get a custom barrel. I have always been able to eventually get what I want and be happy with it, but many times the journey just wasn't worth it. This is why I generally don't order "made to order" anymore. I wait until I see something that Bullberry or VVG has on hand that is reasonably close to what I am looking for and I buy it. You get the quality without the hassle.

Rich Jake-

15"/.900" at muzzle, stainless 6.5-284 w/12" fiberglass forearm in black. Burris dual-dovetail mounts with signature rings. Burris 3-12x PA scope.

I really hope to use it for a 300-yd. Southern Tier deer gun, among other things.

erict
Please keep us updated on your progress with that barrel. I'm hoping that it ends up being a shooter for you & maybe lessen your aggrivaton.
Rich Jake

I find that nearly all custom gun makers are chronic optimists (Bullberry and MRC are other examples). I really don't think this is intentional, but rather enthusiasm. The extra quality is usually worth the wait, but I when I receive a time frame, double that, and that date likely will be more accurate.

Hmmmm, I remember a post several months back about VVCG having problems. Maybe this is only a once a year thing for them. I do like the idea of only buying custom items when the company already has it made up and you don't have to wait for it. Perhaps, the original buyer just got tired of waiting and cancelled. I do like the fact that you kept notes on order info and phone calls. Most people don't do that and end up guessing.

Best of luck. Hopefully it will shoot good for you.

Every company will have problems with someone down the line. I don't think it is possible to satisfy everyone, and know that we are working to be better. I think it is pathetic for someone to come back to a thread that the last post was 10 days ago and try to keep the thread alive. Especially just to bag on the company that is obviously not their top choice. I sense a grudge and I say look to the future so you don't trip while looking at the past.

Mark

I thought it was dead so let it slide. Since two people have chimd in now I'll do so also. I went to Hurricane and visited VVCG 4 weeks ago. The first thing that came to mind was the size of the shop. I was expecting a large building with 10 or twelve employees. What I found instead was a small shop probably 30'x50'. There are 7 employees. 1/3 of the shop is the wood side and the other the machine shop. As the day progressed I was amazed as how effeciently these guys did their job. I didn't realize that they did so much business. They do a lot more work than make barrels and stocks just for the members on this forum. For those of you out there who are mad beceause your Kevelar or Fiberglass stock took longer than you thought it would. First off VVCG has to wait for the stock from Lone Wolf to arrive before they can finish it and ship it out. When those of you get upset because you haven't recieved your synthetic set when you where told you have to keep some things in mind. VVCG is told by Lone Wolf when to expect the stocks to be deleivered and they in turn add the appropriate time to finish the stock to what they tell you for a time table. If Lone Wolf Doesn't deleiver when they said it will push back VVCG's time they told you. Getting mad doesn't make it go faster it just raises your blood pressure. All things take time if you want a particular set up order it 8 months before you will actually need it and check on it every month and a half. If you start adding things to your order as time passes on instead of in the beginning expect that this may add to the time table. VVDave is a nice guy that is why he hasn't responded. He doesn't want to start a flame war. I feel the fire was started a long time ago. It always amazes me the people who are so brave when they have the amanenamie of the computer. It's easy to be bold and bark when there is no one in front of you just a screen. In every Custom Shop there will be delays from time to time. If you feel that you must report each one then that is your choice but know in advance that we all know this isn't a perfect world and things happen so when people go tattling like little children it doesn't reflect badly on whom your telling on but yourself. Legitimate gripes are one thing but " they took too long, and drilled 6 holes instead of 4" doesn't put you in the best light. If you don't like it go somewhere else.

[ 10-24-2003, 21:03: Message edited by: outlawsix ]

outlawsix,

First an foremost, I do have a legitimate gripe because I did not get what I paid for, it was not on time, and I was not ever given an explanation for the barrel delay. That's what's great about these forums - we can all post OUR OWN opinions.

The reason one orders a C-U-S-T-O-M anything is so they get what they want. If I ordered 4 holes and got 6, not only did I not get what I want, but now I have to double-check everything to ensure it's as ordered. I ordered C-U-S-T-O-M because I expect attention to detail. So, yes, it is a big deal to ME, because it's MY gun. If you'd accept that then it's your business.

You've completely missed the point of the time delays. Unexplained time delays are simply unacceptable to me.

In case you or anyone else have misunderstood my position, I truly hope that I was the only VV customer that had a problem - my sense is that VV has simply taken more work then they can handle BECAUSE of the fine reputation they've built. Final judgement for me will be at the firing range.

Regardless of where I place my next order, I will certainly be much wiser.

PS - It's not worth my time to address your 'bold and bark' statement, but if you respond, please let me know what "amanenamie" is - and try cutting your posts into paragraphS. Thanks.

That was a good one. Don't you know that I can't spell? I should have written complete anonymity. As far as not breaking the comment into paragraphs I did it so you would have one more thing to complain about. I know the whole story about what happened in your situation. If you care to paint yourself in one color that is understandable. To bad the rest of the story hasn�t been told. You are right when it comes to your right to complain but it is getting old. I do wish VV Dave would comment but I guess he would prefer not to. Since you want to nit pick don't you realize that one shouldn't capitalize the last letter of a word? "try cutting your posts into paragraphS. Thanks. �Also when quoting someone the phrase should be encapsulated in quotation marks not using apostrophe marks. "your 'bold and bark' statement". Not proper use of the English language

[ 10-25-2003, 06:18: Message edited by: outlawsix ]

I think erict has a legit beef with VVCG, they should have called him as soon as they missed the promised shipping date and advised him of the delay and new expected shipping date. And I agree with outlawsix too, taking your business elsewhere is the only way VVCG or any other custom shop will notice. (If the plumber says he'll be there on Monday and doesn't show up, you call another plumber) Tell me it'll take 6 months and deliver it in 5 and everyone's happy. Say it'll take 8 weeks and deliver it 18 and then give the guy a small "gee we're sorry" rebate and all it does is make him mad. Still waiting to find a custom shop that won't try to paint me a rosey picture just to try to get my business. Even one that will say, "It'll be at least 4 months because we have to wait on other suppliers to get all the parts, but we'll notify you when we have a definite shipping date." Or one that with set a delivery date and say, "I'll give you 5% off for every week the order is late." Guess that's why I've quit ordering custom work and either do it myself, buy it from stock, or buy it used. Guess I've spent too long in the "Time on Target" business.
Bill

Gents,
I've been listening to these gripes, mostly very legitimate, for a long time now. It seems that the biggest problem we have is that WE are fickle and don't put enough money out there in the market to make it worthwhile for the existing companies to hire more folks, build bigger facilities or for new competetion to enter the market. As a matter of fact, there are some folks not taking any new business....So the only good answer is the supply side one...buy and order more barrels and make it worthwhile for the market to invest and meet our demands!
OK enough for the rah-rah...it's true though... I've ordered custom barrels and waited so long that when they arrived, I had already lost interest and sold/traded them off new in the box...
I've also sent barrels off for rechambering and custom work and waited similarly...
For a while I spent all my time buying used/second hand and was happy there, but choices were limited.
Gunsmiths are like gunshops, you have to give them enough business to survive and while it may seem that they have more business than they can deal with, it's usually because they don't want to make the investment in an expansion because WE are fickle and who knows what we will want next year...

Let's face it, most gunsmiths aren't exactly extroverts either...mostly they are more oriented towards machines than folks feelings, occassionally you get the standout from that pack, and perhaps that is what makes JDJones so successful...a little PT Barnum and an understanding that we are fickle and want our stuff now...then again, you are paying for that when you buy his barrels...they cost a few $$$ more than most. Please don't launch into they are fine quality- I know they are, have one and love it.

I just bought a new barrel from VVCG and thought ahead this time...I bought it out of inventory! I guess I've managed my expectations, I won't miss the beauty of the work because I had to wait so long for it.

regards,
Graycg