OK guys, I guess this is 'kinda off-topic, but I want to blow off a little steam. In load development work thus far, looks like H4895 is going to be the best powder. That's ok w/ me as I also use it in my 6.5 JDJ, 375 JDJ, and 308 Striker and it's usually an easily found powder. Nearly out so thought I'd buy a pound. I live in extreme NW LA, w/ closest gun dealers in SW AR. The one I checked in AR was out of H4895 (and prices were tooo expensive). No problem, I'll check in Shreveport/Bossier City. It's Monday, I've got a day off, and it's only a 60 mile drive. The metropolitan area has population roughly 200K. Lots of gun dealers/handloading dealers in the past. Fortunately, I called S'port/BC before making the trip.... Shrevport Sports used to handle gunpowder, but it's been replaced by _____ _____, a nationwide chain of sprots/outdoor stores that does NOT handle gunpowder. Next was a locally owned, large hunting/fishing store, ______'s. Neither of their two stores have gunpowder. OK, guess I'll try _______'s, a shooting range and gun store run by a nationally gunsmithing/shooting family. Nope, they don't handle gunpowder, either. Hmmmmm, now I'm about to get really frustrated! A friend had told me about a new store just west of S'port, ______ _____. Said they had lots of handloading supplies. I called them one Sat w/ intentions of visiting the shop, but found out they closed at noon on Sat. Called this day, but guess what---they're CLOSED all day, Monday. Did I mention this day was MONDAY when I called?! In desparation, I remembered ____'s ____, a small gun shop in BC. He ordered a gun for me once. Seemed to have a decent supply of handloading supplies at the time, as I recalled. I get his answering machine telling me their store hours start at 9 AM..... yada, yada, yada,.... leave a message. Did I mention that it was 10 AM when I called?! Sooooo, I completely STRUCK OUT trying to find ANY gunpowder in an area population of about 200K!!! One last try w/ another gunshop in SW AR. Got his answering machine announcing he's on vacation for two weeks.... I was sooooo mad after the phone calls that I just walked outside to "vent." Guess what--I STILL don't have any H4895 and I STILL don't know where to buy any.... Ordering it is cost prohibitive at the present because of the costly UPS handling fee. If anyone in S'port/BC has any suggestions, let me know. There... now I feel a little better.... Gary T.

[ 07-14-2002, 05:20: Message edited by: Gary T ]

I don't know what to say other then that really sucks. I usually stock up on powder when I go to the shows. My local shops...2... that carry a good supply of powder are way to high. Most all there 1lbs. are over $18.00. At the shows I get most for $13.50...AA,H and IMR with Alliant at $14.50. VV is very good powder but over priced.

Gary,
I do not know if this too far for you to travel, but here in Ruston, La., try McKinney's, they have a nice selection of Hodgdon powder, along with IMR, Alliant and VihtaVuori. They will order anything you want. They are open on Saturdays till 4:00 PM, Monday thru Friday 8:00 AM to 5:30 PM.
Bulldog...

Yep, carrying gun powder is getting prohobitive with all the regulations and expense to get it in the shop.
I can't afford to stock it and don't have the proper place to store it tho I do keep 25-30lbs on hand for my personal use and the occasional remanufacturing jobs I get.
I work in at a local retailer who carries a good supply so I have no problems YET.
I would have to check but I believe I can order powder and have it dropshipped to your door if you order a minimum of 8lbs. But pricing, including shipping and handling would run about 20.00 a can WHOLESALE, I have to order 41+ cans or kegs to get it down to $16 and some change.
Primers are just about as high. So these local, small retailers can't make no money so they don't carry it.
Keep your eye on Natchez Shooter Supply as they ocassional run some very good specials, I bought an 8lb keg of DATA 2200 powder for $58.00 through our gunclub here, we all chipped in and bought alot of powder. The 2200 is great in the 223, 30-30 class cases and seems do be a good one for the 308 too. BTW this price was open to the public you didn't have to be a dealer to get it.

Good luck
Wes

Gary
You could order from Grft's but they get $20 Haz mat fee & minimum order is 4 lbs. I think it is the same arrangement or close to it with Midsouth as well.
Rich Jake

Also consider the surplus stuff which is very good and very reasonable. I've got 2 jugs of it in 4895. Burning rate is virtually identical to canister stuff in my lot.

As was stated above, the red tape and cost is getting out of reach for the dealers in some areas and it's simply not worth it for them to deal with.

The shippers are doing their part also with their hazardous fees.

Some municipalities and zoning regulations will not allow powder storage in their locales or not enough quantity to make it worthwhile at any rate. Blackpowder is another difficult item to deal in.

Regards

[ 07-14-2002, 18:00: Message edited by: Headstamp ]

Hey guys,
Personally, I think the disappearance of gunpowder dealers is related more to regulations and issues other than internet/mail/gun show sales. Wonder if the profit margin got so small and the regulations/cost to maintain adequate stock got so big that it just wasn't worth it for many former gunpowder dealers to continue in the business?..... Some may have gotten out of the business because it may no longer be PC to stay in. For example, the first pound of gunpowder I ever bought came from a local Wal-Mart, of all places. Of course, it discontinued handloading supplies (except blackpowder) many years ago. Had not heard of a WM anywhere still carrying handloading supplies until I read of one on another thread. As is the case w/ Gibson's, many stores that carried handloading supplies have gone out of business. (There also used to be a Gibson's store in the small town I now live in. We miss it, especially since WM has just about closed down everything else...) Seems like internet/mail/gun show sales would be an opportunity for the local dealer to make a sale, just as much as a distant dealer. The internet and mail are open to anyone who's willing to work it. Same goes for gun shows. The shows I've went to have been composed of dealers. Internet/mail/gun show sales would seem to concentrate the sales to the most aggressive dealers. In this case, a less aggressive dealer might find himself losing business. That being said, the only TWO times I've bought gunpowder from the mail, it was because the powders were not available locally (VarGet and VV 130). Have never bought any from the 'net. Have bought only a few pounds at gunshows. Probably 60% have come from local dealers. My dealer in town closed up shop many years ago, mostly because he was not a good business man. I have to travel to buy ALL my gunpowder. My nearest "local" dealer is 60 miles away, round trip. I won't travel 100 miles round trip to save 2$, but if I'm making a 100 mile round trip anyway (as I am today w/ my kids to shop for school clothes), I may well try to save some money. Who wouldn't, especially if my "local" dealer is charging up to $25/pound for IMR/Alliant powders? I apprecaite local dealers as much as anyone, but I've got to be responsible as well w/ my funds. Just my two cents. Gary T.

[ 07-16-2002, 17:22: Message edited by: Gary T ]

Bulldog, Thanks for the tip on McKinney's. I see their 4 wheeler advertisements on the Monroe affiliate on our cable system. Didn't realize they carry handloading supplies. I don't get to travel much to Ruston, (after all, I am a NLU graduate!!!), but my d'ters boyfriend is a student at Tech. May call on him someday to pick me up some powder.
Jules, I wish I could find powder at $18/pound from my closest dealer! That would be a good price.
Headstamp, I'd certainly consider surplus powder, IF I could find it.... I just don't have sufficient powder needs currently to justify ordering a bunch of powder. And I'd certainly have to order a bunch in order to offset the hazmat fees....
KTS1, Thanks for the offer, but don't need that much powder right now.
Rich, You're right about those prices at Graf's, Midsouth, Natchez, etc. Wish I lived near one... But again, can't really order right now.
Gary T.

[ 07-16-2002, 17:23: Message edited by: Gary T ]

Hey guys, Had to "go to town" yesterday to start buying the kids' school clothes so also visited 2 gunpowder dealears mentioned in the original post. The one who's answering machine I got last week had a pretty good selection of powders, but turned out to be $3/pound more expensive than the other shop. The other shop, the one that's closed on Mon, had a very large selection of powders, primers, and bullets, all at very reasonable prices. Picked up the H4895 for $19 and a box of Sierra 6 mm 70 gr BK's for $15. Looked for a box of Sierra 6 mm SSP bullets, but didn't have them. Anyway, I feel a lot better now. Hopefully can play w/ the 70 gr BK's soon. Gary T.