I didn't get a chance to shoot it yet[maybe tomorrow. The 307 brass that Mike formed is really cool lookin. Kinda looks like one of those short chubby nonmagnums. Nice job on the brass Mike. Well...Nice job on the whole job Lock up is good and tight with the new locking bolts... just like you said....on my new unfired stainless frame. I installed the VVCG 6 screw base and the Warne rings.
But I must say...When I line reamed these rings I had to take off alot of metal from the top and bottom where there split to make them a perfict circle. Just givin ya'll heads up if you plan to get a set from Warne and aren't planing on reaming them.
I had 2 Bushnell Elite 3200s>> A 5x15x40 and a 3x9x40 and I used the 3x9 for now. I'll be playing mostly with the 85 to 100gr. pills.

BTW Mike, I checked the barrel to frame gap and I have .003, so I may have to set the shoulders back a bit. I tried a few of the cases without doing this and the barrel locks with ease. I'll fire a few and see what happens before I do anything else.
I also see what ya mean about the shipping. It cost me just under $16. to ship a 10" barrel through USPS,so be lookin for it bout Thursday.

Jules
Congrats on the new barrel! I know that made you happy when it arrived. No messing around now, I'll be waiting for a report on how it shoots!
Rich Jake

[ 11-10-2002, 04:16: Message edited by: Rich Jake ]

Coon nubin...

Congrats! Waiting on one of these myself... Where'd you get the brass? PLEASE send the info on the loads you work up...

Take care,
s

Jules,
Since the gap on my frame was .007" and yours is .003" this means my frame is as much as .004" longer from hinge pin hole to breechface than yours, which is good to know.

The cases I checked on my frame varied about .002", hovering around .005" protrusion. You will be crushing the shoulders just a little. Try shooting a few as they are to see how they shoot, then tweak the shoulders back to give .003" protrusion and see what they do. Ie., see if you can find a difference.

For lockup, ink the tops of the locking bolts and make sure the ink is marred to a point about 1/32" forward of the "U" notch.

The locking bolt set I installed was a factory "1x" oversize set. Like I said earlier, lockup was marginal on the side of being loose when I got it. Examine the locking bolts that came with the barrel and you will see that Virgin Valley had altered them by grinding material off the bottom of the bolts, thus making the lockup loose, and as I recall, the "tail" on the bolts had been worked down also.

When I test fired it, the pressure indications I follow seemed perfectly normal all the way to the point where the lockup changed on my frame, leading me to believe the change was largely due to the locking bolts not being fitted quite right. I don't expect any further change, but let me know if there is any.

1buba, did you happen to find the .250 Imp. data in the webfiles? Let me know, and I'll glean my files also.

Jules, I'd focus on the 87 & 90 gr. bullets. 100s are ok, but you will get a flatter trajectory and a bit more energy at hunting ranges with the lighter bullets.

Thinking back to reports from local Utah elk hunters, when I lived there, who hunted elk with .25/'06s, one group in particular swore by 85 gr. bullets on elk. Don't underestimate that weight. Remember, you are not working at 25/06 velocities, and 100s may not give the best expansion. Just a thought.

My bud, Howard swears by AA2520 and I believe that is what he said he is using in his .250 Imp., and, btw, he uses 75 gr. bullets on deer. I think he said 4320 works well also.

And, 1buba, Mr. Website Administrator, don't worry about brass. Jules swapped me 200 and I had bought double or triple that from gonhuntin awhile back, so we have brass enough between us.

Looks like The Three Musketeers will be shooting .250 Imps.

Jules, was yours a 1-10" twist, or did VVG tell you what it was? 1buba's and mine will be 1-12." Our blanks are already turned down and ground to size.... waiting their turn to be welded...... but they will have to wait a bit yet until I get the last few custom jobs done.

1buba, Jule's Redding dies checked out well for dimensions, and I'd suggest them over RCBS. Unless Jules has a better source, check with Lock, Stock, and Barrel to see if they stock the .250 Imps. If bushing dies are available for this one, I'd sure give them a serious condsideration.

Jules, go blood that barrel!

Thanks again... Mike

[ 11-10-2002, 10:04: Message edited by: Mike Bellm ]

Steve,Mike and anyone else lookin for 307 brass. Do a search on the auctions. I can't remember the guys address right off hand but I paid $45. for 300 rounds on ebay. If anyone is lookin, just send me an email and i'll look it up. There's a guy on Gunbroker that has them at $16.45 - 100.

I'll try the ink on the locking bolts some time today. Usually I can feel it's a good lock up when I close the barrel. It has that nice snap sound when the bolts lock in place. Kinda like a good padlock when closed.
I had to go through a half dozen hinge pins to get the correct fit though. Your oversized pin was to big and the one that came with this frame was to loose. I found a blued pin that's a perfict fit and it's now like a bank vault door [I got dat from you Mike]

I haven't loaded any rounds for it yet but have plenty of AA2520, AA2460 and IMR4320 on hand. After lookin through my load books under 250 Savage i'll also give W760, H414, H4895 and RL15 a try. I don't have any VV N140 but it looks like it will work fine also.
I'll be working with the 85s and 87s mostly but I picked up a box of Nosler 100gr BT just to try out.

I believe it's a 1-10 twist, but i'll run a rod through it and make sure.

It's 6: AM and don't look like i'll be doing any shooting today with it raining as hard as it is.
I hate to wast a 2hr. drive and not be able to shoot. I'll be at the bench loading up sets of 3s with each charge i'll be tryin. I'll start with max loads for the 250Savage and go about 2 to 3grs over that for now. I may just go ahead and set the shoulders back while i'm at it. I'll keep everyone posted on this caliber.
I only see the Redding bushing style dies in 250Savage, not imp.
On sale at www.lockstock.com

[ 11-13-2002, 03:15: Message edited by: Jules ]

ok - doesn't look like Redding makes a bushing set for the imp'd. So, here is a question...

CH4D has the dies for $60 - and they will make 'em from a fired round. Would it be worth it to fire a few rounds from my frame/barrel combo and then have them make me a custom set of dies, or would the reddings be just as good or better?

inquiring minds want to know!

steve

Steve, The Redding dies are as good as, or better then any, and if Lock Stock has them in stock, i'd be gettin there's for the sale price. I sent my size die body to Mike so he could cut the chamber to the die. I don't think the Redding size dies are going to very in size but I could be wrong.

REF. dimensions in dies varying, heat treat alone causes variations, but the dimensions of the Redding dies I have seen and tried, while a bit large for standard .250 Sav. brass which is slightly smaller at the web than .307s, work great for .307s reworked to .250 Imp.

You can get the Redding dies worth the money from the sources Jules mentioned, and while the CH dies are good, no one's production dies compare with Redding's.

1buba, you won't get any better match up of dimensions on a custom order from CH than you will get from Redding's stock dies. Plus, this is where I come in by tweaking dimensions or choosing different reamers to assure a good match up with the dies you will be using. If you go the custom route with CH, you will be looking at the better part of a year getting the dies, and in the end, they will probably not be any different than what is on the shelf.

What I wonder is if Redding will do custom runs of dies with the neck bushings. Ie., they don't stock the .250 Imps. with neck bushings, but if I ordered a quantity of them, would they make them?

I gleaned through the Redding catalog over the weekend and noted several other interesting things, one of which is their listing for .308 Win. Imp., and after tomorrow, I will tell you if the headspacing for that round is exaxtly the same as for .30 Bower Alaskan or not. I have some fired .30 AK rounds here from a Bower chamber, and so far as I can tell initially by measuring the cases, there is no difference.

Another question I have about the bushing dies is whether the shoulder opening is large enough to permit necking down cases, thus saving the cost of additional dies for case forming.

When I am closer to getting set up as a dealer with Redding, I will dig into it deeper.

On my "wish list" of things I want to do business-wise is offering a line of my custom barrels made from Hart blanks. Standard dies limit the performance of any barrel. Ie., no matter how good a barrel might be, common dies will only let it shoot so well. Redding's bushing dies would be a good complement to Hart barrels. However, I am not going to start anything new until I wrap up old business. The end of November is not far off, and I am much closer to my goal. Just gotta put out some fires first.

REF. max loads in the Imp., 3 gr. over standard .250 Sav. loads may be pushing it a bit hard. From what I remember from Blaine Eddy's data, he was not going up over a grain or two above .250 Sav.

Jules, keep us posted....

Mike

Sorry guys. I was fooled by that little rainfall we had here Sunday AM that lasted just long enough for me to not take the 2hr. drive to my range. But for sure will be going this weekend.
I have already loaded 60 rounds using 87gr bullets from Sierra and Hornady and some 85gr. Nosler BTs. I have some 100gr. BT to load also just to see how accurate they are. I'm using Fed.210, Rem 9 1/2s and WLRs to lite the fire.
Powders are IMR and AA4064, RL15, RL19, Win760, IMR and H4350, IMR4831, AA2520, AA2460, H4895,
VV N160 and H414. I gotta get some VV N140 but these will do for now. All the loads i'm using will be max 250Savage and 1 gr. over, data from Hornady, Hodgdon, Accurate Arms, Speer, IMR and Alliant.
IMR4831 really fills the case nicely and I hope it works out. N160, 4350 and RL19 also gives about a 90 to 95% full case. I'm not lookin for speed, just a good deer load for now.
Most of this will be barrel brake in and I won't have time to work up loads at the range, but I hope one of these will work well enough for our deer season next week.
I still need to sight in my 222 Bellm with the 8x32 scope I put on it. I'll take it too.

Talking to my bud, Howard last night, he said that 4064 (IMR at least) does some squirrely things with pressures for him. For that reason, he does not like it at all. He loads on the top end pretty much, and finds that 4064 creates problems for him, especially when a gun lays in the sun waiting to ambush a grounie pig in the summer.

Consistent with what I reported, everything looked normal for me up to a point with 4064, then the unexpected occurred.

I don't know if others have any problems with 4064 in this regard, but until we know more about it in the .250 Imp. I'd be cautious of it.

In his .250 Imp. he relies mostly on AA2520, but shoots nothing heavier than 75 gr. bullets in his due to the 1-14" twist rate.

I have used a lot of 4064 from an 8 pound can test firing and have not seen any problem with it in other rounds, myself. If others have, I'd like to know about it.

And as I mentioned in the email to you, Jules, you still have to treat powder charges in the improved pretty much like the standard .250 Savage inspite of the increased powder capacity and stronger brass. From what Howard says, a gr. or two over max. for the standard .250 Savage is all the hotter you should go in the improved version, even though the .307 brass is much stronger.

Have fun.

Mike

I started using W760 in my 22-250 when I started using 60g. bullets and really love it so give that a thought.