A couple of years ago, a fellow off another board asked my advice about a mid-range deer caliber in a 10" Contender. I gave his a couple of suggestions, and he elected to go with a 7mm TCU, added a 2x scope and loaded up 120 grain Ballistic Tips for hunting (after fireforming). We keep in infrequent e-mail contact, and from the photos I remember seeing, I know that he took a few (quite a few!) varmints and at least 2 deer, all with good results. He was definitely sold on the little 7mm TCU...

Before this season, however, he told me he got a good deal on some Barnes 140 grain X bullets and was going to use them for hunting in his TCU. He said they were "highly recommended" by the guy at the gun shop for his 10-inch barrel.

He said they grouped into a half-inch at 100 yards while his other loads were closer to an inch. I told him not to worry about that and to stick with the 120 grain BTs.

To make a long story short, he chose a slight advantage in accuracy over proven performance and shot a forkhorn through the lungs at app. 100 yards. After a half-hour, he got on the track and was sure he'd find the deer in short order -- just like the deer he'd taken before with his 7mm TCU.

There was a dusting of snow on the ground, and he could see a little blood here and there, though he did not immediately find the buck. But by the afternoon, the snow began to melt, and he lost sign of the buck amid a maze of deer crossings. He tried again in the morning, but to no avail -- that despite searching most of that 2nd day.

A couple days later, while tending fences, he saw the buck in a shallow pool of water. He got a rope on the antlers and pulled it onto dry ground.

The meat was no longer salvageable, but, after noting that the point of impact was where he intended, he did bother to cut it open to see exactly what happened. As I would have guessed, the damage to the internal organs was minimal. He said the exit looked much like the entrance (though exits are no indication of internal performance).

It was clear he was sickened by the outcome of that hunt, but maybe someone can learn from his mistake (I did ask his permission to post but said I would not use his name). Particularly in the specialty pistols, the proper bullet selection becomes even more critical. You need to understand how a given bullet will perform at specific velocity levels and, if possible, test things for yourself BEFORE slinging lead(or in this case, copper) at game.

If you can't work out things for yourself, check as many sources as possible, but take everything you read and hear with a grain of salt as the proliferation of the internet also means the dispersion of bad information is out there along with the good.

You're right, the result doesn't really seem out of line. I really like TSXs in some of my more powerful rifles, but in my handguns I've taken a shine to NBTs. They just perform great. I plan to try SSTs in the near future, and don't expect a terrible amount of difference.

Thanks for posting this Bobby.

Yes, the NBTs really do shine in this arena. I even use the 150 grain version in a 20" .308 WCF rifle at 2780 fps and have taken quite a few hogs with them -- all with excellent performance and, in many instances, exits.

And while the performance of the SST is fairly similar to the NBT, I just have never been able to get used to that unsightly cannelure...

The 120-grain NBT in 7 mm has recently been changed to a much thicker and tougher jack design for silhouette shooters. That change has made it a fine all purpose bullet for high velocity 7 mm rifle hunters, yielding good expansion and usually 100 percent penetration on deer, elk and moose. But, I fear is going to ruin it for us single shot pistol hunters. I will look and put up a couple of links to the information if I can find them again. Later...Rusty. here is the link:

http://24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb...10385/page/3/fpart/2

Unfortunately I couldn't find the picture of a 120-grain and 140-grain 7 mm BTs sawed in half and set side by side, but what Nosler did was to take the 120 and give it the same jacket as the 140 BTs. Shortening the 140 jacket to 120 grain bullet length thickened the jacket up considerably, giving the performance noted above and probably ruining that bullet for the slower single shot pistol velocities for all time.

After much searching, I found it! here is the link:

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php...rch=true#Post1577502

I guess the moral to this story is to buy up all the old 7mm 120s while they are still on the shelves...Rusty.

I can say I had similar results to your friend there Bobby. Using my 7-30 Waters and shooting 120 gr. TSXs. First one I shot gave the classic 'instant death', drop on the spot, spine hit. I thought I was really on to something at that point. Next one my son shot using the same ammo was a whole different story. Lucky for us we were in the wide open prairie and we could see for miles. At the shot the deer took one thru the ribs straight on broadside. Lunged forward and took off with the herd. That thing ran out 1/2 mile before it dumped. While cleaning it we noticed the bullet had not hit anything but the narrow edge of a single rib, penciled its way thru and probably landed in the distant dirt. No real damage at all and obviously no expansion.
This year we worked with Speer 130 gr. BTSP, standard fare cup and core bullets that performed as you would expect and were just as accurate at about 1/3 the cost.

I'm glad to finally see a thread here where people reconize the value in a bullet that will give some decint expantion.

The only time I ever liked the barns bullets is in my .220 swift because they are the only bullet that will maintain good accuracy at 2900f.p.s..

I shot a 150 gr. ballistic tip in my E.A. Brown 30-30. and it performs perfectly

Rusty-

Sorry...I meant to reply sooner but forgot. Actually, Nosler has used the same jacket in the 7mm, 120 grain Ballistic Tip for years. Unless it was just changed again, that is old news -- and it still performs admirably down to around 1650 fps.

The jacket on this bullet has always been substantial. Somewhere, I have a photo of one from the early 90s. It had been sectioned and is shown alongside several other bullets. I will try and see if I can locate it.

Thanks Bobby,

I had a response from a concerned 7 TCU shooter on another board. Thanks to you I have some good news to give him...Rusty

Excellent post Bobby. In all the years I have hunted with Speciality Pistols (started in 1982) I have had to track many deer due to bullets not expanding, but yet never ever had to track one due to my bullets not penetrating.

Larry

Larry-

That's a good observation -- and one that I find is quite true. Even with the little 6mms, I have never had a problem with a lack of penetration, even on the occasions when using lightweight bullets such as the 70 grain Ballistic Tip.

Thanks Bobby

In regards to the 6mm T/CU one year I was using fireform loads to hunt with. My Virgin Valley Custom Guns 6mm T/CU Contender Barrel showed up the day after season opened. I had a bunch of brass a necked up and ready to load so over the next few days I came up with a really accurate fireform load using 80gr. Remington Power Lokt Hollow Points loaded in front of H-335. Accuracy was quite good at 2650 FPS Muzzle Velocity. On Thankgiving Day late in the afternoon a nice doe walked out at about 165 yards. Long story short, I poked two of those Remingtons right behind the shoulder as the doe was broadside. Each time she jerked a little and would walk a few more steps. After the second shot she turned and walked into the Rice Cane and disappeared. I recovered the doe a few feet inside of the maze of Rice Cane stone dead. Both bullets were right on the mark, and neither one hit even a rib bone. The holes through the lungs and both exit holes were about the same size as the entrance holes. This out of a bullet I was worried that would be too soft.

Larry

120 grain Hornady V-Max!! D.R.T.!! DEAD RIGHT THERE!! They work!! GHD

Yes, the 120 grain V-Max does quite well at TCU velocity. But then it should: After some confusing moves by Hornady, it turns out that the V-Max is actually the Single Shot Pistol bullet (discontinued) under another name.

The very early V-max 120 grainers had jackets that were actually brittle, and the bullet would come apart even at lower velocities. But now, the V-Max (aka the defunct #22811 SSP) does just fine...

GHD-By the way, what are you doing shooting something other than a 25-06???

Just kidding, of course. Have you been able to get out and do any Spring varmint hunting?

Bobby