I live in Arizona and deer are at 50-150 lbs, Javalina about 40 lbs. Opinions on the best 12" 200 yard barrel/caliber combo for this. Looking to get a new barrel for xmas, I like the shorter ones and don't want to be under gunned.

In the contender, I'd stick with the 10" favorites, which are the 6.5 and 7 TCU's, 300 whisper, 30 herret, and 357 maximum.

In the encore I'd look at the BR based rounds, ie 6.5 and 7 BR, I believe there is a 30 as well, 357 max, 41 woodswalker and the 454 casull (you won't be undergunned )

Ditto to Paul's comments...

I would try the 7x30 waters. I have a 12in. barrel buy V.V.C.G. that is an awesome shooter!

In a 12" barrel, a 7-30 won't do anything more than a 7 TCU other than burn more powder and produce a bit more recoil. It requires 14" of barrel to realize any advantage over the TCU, and even then, it's rather slim.

But they make factory ammo for the 7x30waters, and, if you reload, you can use 375win brass, and load that baby up hot, and faster than the 7tcu.

If you are loading a 7-30 Waters (NOT 7X30 Waters...just my pet peeve there...)notably faster than the 7 TCU in a 10"-12" barrel, you are exceeding the "safe" zone of the Contender and are more than likely stretching the frame.

Bobby

No flames meant, but I'd like to know your reasoning behind the statement regarding the 7-30 and the 7 TCU being equal until the barrel length reaches 14"????

Have you actually compared both in 10" and 12" barrels?

Are you saying that the additional powder in a 7-30 can't be burned in a 12" barrel????

Surely there is a point of diminishing returns, but I'm not convinced that the 7-30 is at that point in a 12" barrel???

Yes, I have....and I have taken it a step beyond that as well. In standard TC barrels and operating at SAFE pressures, and using 120 grain bullets, the 7 TCU, on average, will reach 2370 fps while the 7-30 can handle 2440 fps. Yes, a couple of manuals shows more optimistic results with both, but like I said, this is what I determined (using a method similar to what Don Shearer and Mike Bellm agree upon) was the top-end "safe" loads. The barrels were then cut back an inch at a time down to 10". I will see if I still have the data available (if it survived '97 when a flood wiped us out). If so, I will post it.

The reason this test came about was a local fellow who wanted to cut his Super 14 7-30 back to 10". I told him to keep the barrel as-is and get a TCU if he wanted a 10" barrel. He laughed...

I had a Super 14 in 7TCU that I agreed to have cut back an inch at a time if he allowed the same treatment on his 7-30 and allowed me to borrow it for load evaluation. I told him he was welcome to partake in the testing, and he was there for a couple of the sessions.

The results turned about about as I had expected. Granted, this was a comparison of 2 individual barrels, and the results could vary slightly due to variances in other barrels. But on the whole, I feel the test provided a good working basis for what can be expected from the 2 cartridges.

It does not take a rocket scientist to see that the 7 TCU is more efficient, esp. in the shorter tubes. The additional case volume of the 7-30 can (not necessarily will but "can") translate into higher deviation in shot-to-shot variations.

And at 10", the 7 TCU is actually FASTER than the 7-30 by app. 60 fps on average, if memory serves correctly. Granted, that's miniscule, but it simply serves to show that you can burn more powdder for a smaller return. And that was precisely the point of my earlier post...

Bobby

Very interesting....I'd sure like to see your data (including load info)! Did you try any bullets heavier than the 120???

[ 12-05-2002, 18:39: Message edited by: GonHuntin ]

Bobby,
Did you have any way to accurately measure the "safe" pressures? Seems to me that it would take actual pressure measurements to make the results valid.
Just wondering,
Melvin Calliham

GonHuntin-
130s grain Sierra SSPs were used but, due to a time constraint, were not tested at 11 inches, so I did not mention them as that fact left a bit of a void in the data. However, the results carried the same basic theme as with the 120s, though, if memory serves, the edge of the 7-30 at 14" was slightly greater than with the 120s..

Melvin-
I don't have the time to get into the details of the pressure question, but like I mentioned, Don Shearer & Mike Bellm's accepted method was fairly well parallelled. So I am including links to their articles. (And by the way, I do consider their studies to be the "gospel" of the Contender world.)

http://www.bellmtcs.com/FAQ/max_pressures.htm

http://www.1cox.com/shearer/shearer.htm

If my data still survives, I will get it posted sometime next week. I am leaving in the morning for a hunt and will be gone 3 days but will try and locate/post the tests when I return.

Bobby, Thanks for the links.
Good luck on your hunt!
Melvin

I had the good fortune to take 3 Whitetails 2 years ago with a 10" 7-30 Waters. I was using a load consisting of a 120gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip Bullet & Winchester W-748 Powder. I was getting 2257FPS average muzzle velocity and the Standard Deviation and Extreme Spreads were quite low (I'd have to look them up to quote the figures exact). I also tried Hodgdon H-322, but neither the velocity nor accuracy was up to that of Winchester W-748.

In the taking of the 3 Whitetails there was quite a variation in ranges, 1 was at 50 yards, 1 was at 135yards, and 1 was at 270 yards (all measured with a Nikon Laser Rangefinder). The 4x4 Whitetail Buck taken at 270 yards was luck. By luck I mean that I messed up and didn't hit exactly where I was hoping to. I drilled both shoulders, and the bullet produced complete penetration, with about a 1 1/2" exit hole. However at that impact velocity I am not sure I would have collected that Buck had I not hit bone to initiate bullet expansion.

In the recoil department the 10" 7-30 Waters did not produce objectional recoil, but did have a sharp snap to it. The muzzle blast was considerable, but not horrendous either.

I can not comment on the 7mm T/CU, as I have not shot one in many years, and at that time I did not have a chronograph. However the laws of physics tell me that it is going to produce less recoil.

10" 7-30 Waters Article

Good luck, there is a lot of good advice available on this forum. Read it all and make your best decision.

Larry

Hi Bobby,
What load were you using in the 7mmTCU to achieve 2375fps? I have an excellent load
accuracywise but can only get 2100fps. I'd be interested in trying a faster load if I don't lose too much accuracy.
Mike

Mike-
If you use H335 and a rem 7/12 primers and have a 14" barrel, there's not much of a trick in getting 2300+ fps. If you check the Nosler manual, it shows at least a couple of powders (not H335, strangely enough) that surpass 2400 fps.

In a good custom barrel, such as my 15" Van Horn, I use less powder for more velocity (thanks to tighter tolerances) and am currently shooting the 120 grain Hornady #22811 (SSP/tipped) at 2453 fps. Case life is excellent (I've tortured-tested a few). The powder charge for this particular load is 30.5 grains of H335.

Also, in the 7 TCU I have found that bullets long for their weight such as the Nosler 120 grain BT and the Hornady 120 grain SSP/tipped (not a BT but longer than standard Hornady 120 gr. SSP) seem to have the potential for higher velocites at safe pressures than do their conventional counterparts, although this is something that I have not looked extensively in to.

And as to the data I mentioned in a previous post: I am still looking. I know the printouts were lost in the flood, but we had moved most of our business items/computer stuff to our new location a week or so before the flash flood hit, something I am still thankful for. I am hoping those particular disks are in that batch, but I am still sorting through it. There are hundreds upon hundreds of disks there, and unfortunately, I did not label the personal ones. But I am still hopeful...

[ 12-11-2002, 09:35: Message edited by: Bobby Tomek ]