For a while I thought I was the only one with this problem. You get a barrel that shoots a good group, you reload some more rounds up exactly the same and the group shoots all over the place. There does not seem to be any consistancy from group to group or even from barrel to barrel. I have felt that it ws just my bad shooting, but now I am finding others who have the same problem. An example is the recent postal match. I have what should be a real tack driver barrel in 6tcu. Kelby (sic) bench resr barrel, made into a tC by VV, chambered by Mike Bellm. Ya'll saw the results. put 5 into 0ne small hole. I have the unique situation where I load 5 rounds and go out the door to my shop and shoot. I would hate to say how many of those wabbits I shot before I got that group. Then I tried the same exact load at 200 yards and it was terrible. Tried again at 100 and it was terrible.2 inches if I remember right.
I know I am part of the problem but after talking to others I found I am not alone. I am guessing that my glasses might br part of the problem, progressive lenses, and I am in the process of getting a lense made for a pair of shooting glasses. Anyone have any thoughts on this problem.
Rich

Hit the enter key too fast. should read "Tried again at 100 and it was terrible 2 inches if I remember right.

my problem ain't with the ammo but the gun itself, I've found that everytime I tear my Contender down to clean, after putting back together i have to re-zero, groups are good but have been as much as 6" off from the last session. I blame it on the forend and don't consider it a big deal, if I'm using a paticular combo for hunting tho I leave everything alone once its zeroed until after the hunt is over.

Wes

Deadeyedick,

I can't say that I have encountered the exact same thing as you with your guns but I have witnessed similiar results. I guess I have a few theories on why this is with the Encore and Contender firearms, and sometimes all firearms.

These handguns are tough to shoot consistently in that whenever they are fired over a rest, there is pressure on the barrel, no way around that as SEAN pointed out and I agree with him. The closer to the action the rest is the better.

On top of that, I have watched shooters zero over a rest and then go and shoot from a competition type position and have the zero walk all over hell, simply because there is no or different pressure on the forend and barrel.

This is no different then any handgun, take a revolver for example, zero it at 100 yards off a bench rest and then fire it from a sitting position, 90% of the time the zero will change.

But then again, does it really change or does the handgun recoil different from the unsupported firing position.

This is why I tell customers to test loads off a bench but always, especially with these type of handguns and revolvers, to zero from a hunting position.

Another theory of mine, well something that I know for a fact watching many hunters develope loads for their hunting handguns, they purchase 100 rounds of brass and take 20 of those or so for load testing.

They fire the first test loads and find the handgun shoots alright but they think it can do better with a little tweaking. The next test load does shoot much better and then as they do the final adjustments to bullet seating depth and such, their handguns are flat out screaming into nice one jagged hole groups.

Being satisfied that they have the ultimate handgun and load combo with no reason to continue testing, they load up the entire lot of brass with this load and go hunting. Generally the load works great for that hunting season but come the next year, they take their wonder gun and ammo to the range to recheck its zero and find that those 3/8" groups were lost somewhere over the year, how could this be?

The answer is very simple. The first test loads shot only "OK" because we were using virgin brass with neck run out numbers that are much higher then once fired brass, which had better come out of the chamber with less then 0.001" neck run out, if they don't you have bigger problem.

I have found that handloaders using handguns often pay extreme attention not only to their loading but also their loading equiptment, on average, I would say a handgun hunter or competitor is more likely to use match quality tools then a rifle hunter, just seems to be the case more often then not.

Because of this, those second and third test loads are extremely consistent compared to the first loads in virgin brass. This can greatly reduce group size. Not only are neck run outs basically "0", but more importantly the bullet run out numbers are also very low.

So what happens when we take our highly refined and polished hunting load and house it in those 80 remaining virgin cases? Our match grade accuracy goes bye-bye.

I have also noticed that when a handloader is developing test loads, they pay very close attention to details such as case prepping, die set-up and things like that. Once the magic load is found, far to many loaders loose track of these details and simply mass load these rounds, again taking away from accuracy.

My advise is to use only once fired cases when things get serious, such as competition and zeroing in a hunting handgun, in all honesty, for hunting, Virgin cases provide all the accuracy needed for big game hunting.

I can't say what is wrong with your handgun but here are a few things to look at, personally I love my Encore handgun barrels but have come to the conclusion that they are best suited for close to moderate range with big bore rounds. For all my big game, long range hunting, the Rem XP-100 will always get the call, it simply is a much better and more consistently accurate design then the break action handguns.

Hope this helps in some way!

Good Shooting!!!

50

Deadeye,
I keep harping about size die adjustment, but changes in pressure effect how much flexing the frame does when fired, and thus how much the cases stretch with it. The amount you move the shoulder when bumping them back effects how much spring back of the case shoulder you get.

Bottom line is that you have to be constantly tweaking the size die adjustment and double checking how much the case heads stick out of the chamber. It does effect accuracy, and the result could be what you are seeing.

I am not saying this is your problem for a fact, but am suggesting it is something to pay attention to. Since you can shoot conveniently where you are, tweak the die up & down to see what effect it has on groups. And hopefully you did the project I outlined on the Bellm TCs Newsletter over the past week or so. If you did, the changes I am talking about should have been made quite lucid.

Also, Sean is preparing a report of his findings about forends and bedding approaches to them. Perhaps when it is ready, he will post it here.

Our bud, "The Wind Is Your Friend" Don Bower, does no forend bedding at all, but as you know, his rest and forend system is quite consistent, unlike the highly variable contact we get with "normal" forends and the various rests and field positions we use otherwise. I think, as Sean and others noted, that the forend has a lot to do with changes in grouping and impact point.

And of course, I will put in a plug for my oversize hinge pins, which minimize movement at the hinge. They do make a difference.

www.bellmtcs.com

Mike

Rich, I will throw my .02 in here as no one mentioned this. Are you using the same frame and pin all the time? I learned the hard way a few years back, X frame goes with Z barrel. Always keep that barrel with that frame after the load development is done, always, or it will and can change a bunch.
Jeff

Rich,
I don't know what scope you are using, but I found a slight problem with my Burris 3-12. The markings on the objective lens did not match the actual distance for parallax adjustment. When shooting at 100 yards, I have to set the lens at the 150 mark. Until I found this problem, I couldn't get MOA. This simple fix now helps me stay under half inch.

Nashcat

Nashcat, changing the subject a bit...how did you find this out? mvm

i think we could all do well to have a inch pound torque wrench/screwdriver to put the forend back the same way (and same order) each time you take it down. I've always wanted to get one, but.... I'm lazy and just don't care enough.

This would make a good article in a single shot rag huh
Wes

are you cleaning your barrel,my encore 22-250 does not shoot tight groups with a clean barrel.this drove me crazy,now when i go to the range i shoot several rounds to foul the barrel.