Just one question. What the hell is a Ruger #1 45/70 load???

if you look in the loading manuals there are normally 3 sections for 45-70 loads according to action strength. the Ruger #1 loads have approached 50,000 cup.

I remember in the old days that when you loaded a contender to hot with the one piece locking lug , the contender would open up and you found yourself looking at the fired case in the chamber. your first words were probably "holy S***" or something similar. the two piece locking solved that to a certain degree but it is still there. the encore is just a contender on steroids and there isn't any chance in hell that I would shoot a Ruger # 1 45-70 load in an encore.

I'm not saying the encore will blow up. what I am saying is that if you load it to the high pressure with a heavy bullet the heavy recoil could cause the action to unlock. to me that is not a good thing

I see the inmates are still running loose. The question posed was one of pressure.

"I am going to start handloading my encore for 45-70. Data is available for three different pressure levels. I know that the encore is capable of loading to lever action levels, but is that where it should stop? Or, can it stand the heavy loadings for this caliber?"

Then it jumped to recoil opening the action.

If 50,000 psi is wrong for the Encore how come T/C chambers for the 300 Win Mag that operates close to the mid 60,000 psi range?

Could anyone answer that question other than the generic answer that T/C would give?

See what I mean? Call T/C and get the CORRECT answer from them

Not sure I understand why it would not be safe in an Encore then. A 358Win. has over 52000 cup and a 300mag more then.
I remember back when the folks at TC said the 375JDJ should never be fired in a contender. But now they offer it in a contender and encore barrel.

MP, I really dont want to continue a pissing contest with you when most likley only a lawyer @ TC knows the answer to your question. We may take note that there are a lot of Contender barrels on the market also chambered in 45-70....
it is our responsibility as handloaders to load safe rounds for the arms we intend to use them in. Your "idea" of safe may differ from mine.

The ones that have all the experience here are the experts that write the loading manuals. 45/70 in the strongest actions are limited to 35,000cup. 458 win. mag 53,000cup and 300 win.mag 54,000 cup. If all are chambered in a modern bolt actions or single shots of like design then it must be a matter of case strength. These writers have all the toys to test their theorys and for now I will take their word for it.
Rick

JerryO: I stated that i used the outside meaurment to simplifly things.
If we brought up EVERY VARIBLE we could think of we would never end a thread on this subject.
I can think of::
1. case wall thickness.
2. case taper.
3. cae being straight walled or bottleneck.
4. that all cases of the same caliber may vary as to the
internal diameter that the gasses push on.
5. The way we hold our mouth.
6. How hard we press the trigger.
7. The astrological signs
8. ETC.

See what I mean. We who study these things realize that there are more than one varible and that NO ONE knows EVERY ANSWER.

Don't sweat it it was just a discussion that by it's very nature wasn't going to anywhere.

Me_Plat said:
MY QUESTION WAS IF THE ENCORE CAN CHAMBER THE 300 WIN MAG AND THE 375 H&H WHY CAN'T IT TAKE THE 45/70 LOADED TO 50000 CUP?
WITH LEAVING THE CASE CONSTRUCTION OUT OF IT. WE HAVE BETTER BRASS THAN IN THE YEARS GONE BY.


I agree with everything you posted, except maybe useing the outside case diameter instead of the inside. So we don't think pressure or case design would matter.

In fact, I don't see any indication that it won't. Just a lot of it hasn't been approved by....

So what else might matter? How about bullet weight?

Momentum of the gun must equal the momentum of the bullet. That would be velocity times weight. In a heavy 45-70 load the momentum should be higher than the .300 win mag. This would have to translate into more force pulling the barrel back with the frame. Weight of the frame and barrel each become part of the equation for momemtum and the speeds generated.

Or would it? It seems to me the counter acting thing would be the front of the chamber of the .300 win mag would be pushing on the barrel which the frame must hold. On the 45-70, there is no shoulder to push the barrel forward, just the inertia it takes to pull the barrel back.

In other words, the pressure (inside the case) on the frame may be only part of what limits the loads.

That is enough to think that testing each to its limit is the only way to tell. But be careful, as I don't think testing until the action is hard to open works with a straight case. It works with a shouldered case as the frame and case stretch together and at some point the stretched case will not shrink back and the shoulder will cause a bind. Not so with a straight wall case.


JerryO