Why are most so against them?? I NEVER shoot without some sort of hearing protect and Do NOT let the kids either. Is it just a macho thing we have against them?? I have them on serveral guns/Barrels.
For sure it cannot be that they down grade accuracy for my rem700 in 300 Utra is a 4" group 500 yard gun at its WORST with Brake.
Infact in long range shooting it helps control the barrel movement.
So what is it that just keeps Most of us from recomending them?
With the lastest onset of Quality ear plugs and ear muffs their is no longer a reason to hunt without them except for old Hearing Ruining Traditions

Ofcourse I am Assume a Good Brake was installed

Just looking for the opinions
Fireball

Here is why I will not use a brake:

Shooters use hearing protection at the range but that does nothing to prevent the significantly increased muzzle blast from annoying the crap out of the shooters on the adjacent benchs.
Every time that a shooter sits next to me with a braked rifle, I have to move. Braked rifles bolw the paper print-out right off my Oehler.

Shooters who hunt don't usually wear hearing protection in the field. Without it you can sustain hearing damage. If you wear haering protection while hunting than you can't hear the game unless you put them on & off & on.

Muzzle braked rifles that are shot prone in the field cause dirt, grass and everything else to fly all over the place. Very unpleasent.

I watched a guy shoot a braked rifle off the hood of his truck. The bast was so intense that it actually dented in the hood. I have also heard stories of braked rifles breaking windshields of vehicle when braked rifles were shot off the hoods. Here in NY you are not permitted to put a loaded rifle on a motor vehicle but in some states it is quite a conveinent (and legal) manner of shooting.

Now there are a few reasons.
VH

With respect to your opinions

I will take these one at a time...Understand I respect other opinions......So these are just replies

I watched a guy shoot a braked rifle off the hood of his truck. The bast was so intense that it actually dented in the hood. I have also heard stories of braked rifles breaking windshields of vehicle when braked rifles were shot off the hoods. Here in NY you are not permitted to put a loaded rifle on a motor vehicle but in some states it is quite a conveinent (and legal) manner of shooting.

This guy is not REAL smart is he? My 300Ultra mag wold ruin the paint on the hood WITHOUT a brake
And is road Hunting a SPORT??

Muzzle braked rifles that are shot prone in the field cause dirt, grass and everything else to fly all over the place. Very unpleasent.

You are only going to get ONE shot at big game most of the time so the flying dirt I never see as a problem......Been their done that..and the Varmit guys I know use Blankets or benches of a sort.

Shooters who hunt don't usually wear hearing protection in the field. Without it you can sustain hearing damage. If you wear haering protection while hunting than you can't hear the game unless you put them on & off & on.

Hunting without hearing protestion is Just Plain NOT GOOD for you ..your ears or teaching your kids.

The Bench shooting I understand but that would only apply to a VERY busy Public range ...Still irritating I understand.. Not a good enough reason to go without on a heavy recoiling gun

I still beleive MOSSST not all but MOST dont like them because of He said She said Crap.......About like all factory TC barrel are junk........lol

OK Thats ones opinon Lets hear more

I Like My Brakes and so far the reasons for Not using one seem INVALD...............lol

Fireball

Fireball,
I like them. I have them on most of my big bore handguns.

VH,
They do blow stuff around on the shooting bench though, but so does the cylinder to barrel gap on my Super Redhawk
I have another table for paper work and my spotting scope.
I don't go to the local range so I don't have to worry about other shooters{I have my own personal range}
The hood of my Ford truck is Waaaay to high for me to use for a shooting rest but I know of guys that do it on there little trucks.
You can get a set of ears just for for hunting.
http://www.walkersgameear.com/digital.asp

[ 12-09-2002, 03:23: Message edited by: Jules ]

I think Varmint Hunter is dead on. There are two major problems I have with brakes.

1.)NOISE!!!!
I wouldn't be caught dead without hearing protection at the range but find hunting with earplugs extremely akward.

2.)Muzzle Blast.
I have shot next to too many people using muzzle breaks at the range. I don't care for the redirected muzzle blast hitting me in the side of the head. I do the same thing Varmint Hunter does. I move.

The only reason I would use a muzzlebreak is if I had a barrel that just flat out hurt to shoot without one. I would make sure however that I shot it away from everyone else at the range and would wear ear protection at all times.

Just know that these opinions are based on my personal experiences, not on he said she said.

I don't like them because they are loud, loud, loud, greatly increase muzzle blast, and are ugly too boot.

I hunt deer on my own two feet in the woods and the ability to hear well is extremely important so I don't wear earplugs while hunting. Maybe I won't hear too well for long eh? However I don't use any paint blistering rounds for hunting deer anyway.

I slept during offduty hours in bunkers around a 155 howitzer that fired missions every night in Vietnam so I doubt 4-5 shots/year from a .35 Remington or .358 Win makes much difference to my hearing at this point.

I can see where a target shooter, or long range 'hunter' could use a brake for recoil reduction when the ability to hear is not a factor in the shooting at hand. And of course the long range shooters are usually using some sort of necked down aaa round that beats the crap out of them without a brake.

In summary I can see where brakes are convenient in some shooting situations but they are not convenient for me in my hunting situations. I do use both foam plugs and 'headset' protectors when sighting in and shooting for practice. Plateau Hunter

I've owned braked firearms and still own one.

Just because you use hearing protection doesn't mean you will not have hearing damage. A certain amount of hearing damage will occur even if you wear muffs offering maximum protection such as the Ultimate 10 from Peltor which I use.

If shooting a braked rifle or pistol you increase the damaging sound levels to the point where you cause damage to your hearing with every shot unless you use plugs AND maximum protection muffs.

Also it's very unfair to other people at the range.

Personally I think they are an abomination and although I'm keeping my braked 30-378 because of the extra range it offers I don't shoot it at the range when others are present and if I hunt with it I'll have to wear a LOT of hearing protection.

Rationalize all you want. If you shoot braked guns often you are causing a lot more damage to your hearing and those around you than if you shoot unbraked guns.

Many ranges are banning braked firearms and I applaud that decision.

$bob$

Another good reason is that if I spend my money I should have what I want as long as it is not illegal. My ears and my money. I don't shoot without hearing protection. I have seen some at the range with their plugs hanging around their neck while shooting. After I shoot they generally put them in. Muzzle brakes are an invention that allows fools like me to shoot large calibers without punishing recoil. I like it and if someone else doesn't that is fine too. So far this is still a free country so muzzle brakes are available to those who wants them. If someone else doesn't that is fine too. WEAR your hearing protection, shoot your unbraked gun, and let me have the peace of mind to shoot my braked guns. Back to the question. Some people are so narrow minded that they only want people to like whatever they like and if it isn't something they like they are against it. That is it in a nutshell. They are like that whether it concerns knives, cars, gun's, women, food or whatever. Myself I believe you have the right to whatever as long as it doesn't infringe on my rights.

The only braked gun I've got is the 21-1/2" .375/.338 Win Mag Barrel I got from VVCG with Mike Bellm's chamber and machined in brake. This sucker is loud, but not nearly as loud as I expected. I tried one round without hearing protection and it made my ears ring for a couple minutes, so I've gone to using hearing protection while hunting - not a big deal when you're mostly sitting in stands or blinds - and which is probably a good idea whether you're shooting a braked gun or not.

The relatively small number of holes (12) may contribute to the moderate noise level. Also, none of the holes are on the bottom where the re-directed blast is going to kick up a lot of debris. Most of the blast with this thing is forward and up from the muzzle.

In the recoil reduction department, Mike's brake make's this gun shoot like a 30-06, with no muzzle rise at all, which is really nice if you want to see your target vaporize in a cloud of pink mist and/or otherwise observe the spewing chunks and miscelaneous fluids. I can see what I'm hitting with this barrel better than I can with an almost identical barrel w/o a brake in .250 Savage.

As for how they look, well, a lot of brakes do look like crap. Machined into an octogon barrel, though, Mike's brake looks really good; just slightly mean, and very "custom." Well worth what he charges for it if you ask me.

Mark Dumais

Noise!

I cant shoot magnum revolvers due to the noise that escapes at the barrel/cylinder gap.......

Hey Guys,

There are several reasons cited in the posts above for not using muzzle brakes. All are good reasons, but honestly they are all convenience and cosmetic-related. Actually there in another reason I won't use one and it is because some brakes affect the accuracy of the gun. I have several experiences with data to support my contention too. Now don't get me wrong. I am not saying all brakes will kill your accuracy, but some of them sure do and I haven't figured out completely just what the controlling factors are.

One instance was with a Contender barrel chambered in a 300 B/S with a prototype Bellm brake (now improved). The brake was constructed like a howitzer brake with the bullet passing through a chamber unsupported while the gases vented out the sides. It was also vented asymmetrically. While the bullet was still in the chamber the asymmetrically venting gases kicked the bullet into a yaw. I could tell this was the situation because the bullet prints on the target showed a partial sideways print and it didn't do that before the brake was cut in the barrel. Making the brake fully symmetrical solved the problem.

Another case was with a beautiful 309 carbine barrel that had two rows of vent holes at 30 deg off top center and none in the bottom. It had a screw-on front cap with hole for the bullet to go through. That barrel never did shoot well. With the cap on like it was intended to shoot, it shot 2.5+" 5-shot groups and some of the bullet holes on target looked like they were partly sideways. With the cap off so the brake wasn't working, the performance improved and the barrel would shoot 1.5" groups. So there was something else wrong with that barrel besides the brake, which I never did figure out, but the brake was definitely part of the overall poor perfromance.

And Yes, there are a lot of brakes available. Some vent symmetrically and some don't. I think if the bullet is just stabilized and the brake is asymmetric, it will produce enough off-axis force to kick the bullet into a yaw, and there goes accuracy. If the bullet is fully stabilized or overstabilized it doesn't matter so much.

At any rate, I have decided that I will shoot without a brake.

Don Shearer

Don,
I aggree with you on not having a brake, but sometimes these big bores are just toooo much without one.
I have the factory TC brakes on both my 14" rechambered factory contender barrels 309 and 358JDJ. Both barrels will do an inch or less with many loads.
I have a 20" Bellm made barrel that was a 30 B/S and is now a 308Bellm. It has Mike's machined in brake and it's one of the most accurate barrels I own. It has done an 1" or less with most all loads that i've tried, and many of them were 1/2" or less and i'm not done working with it yet
I think if the brake is set up correctly, it won't affect the accuracy of the barrel.
Now on the smaller calibers, I wouldn't want the brake.

Guys
I have a hunter 30-30 barrel rechambered to 308 Bellm. I have no problem with accuracy with the T/C Muzzle tamer on it. It may be louder than a super 14 but I haven't noticed it at all since I always wear hearing protection.

While hunting I also wear the newer earmuffs that let you hear & turn off when you shoot & they work well for me. The loudest muzzle break that I have ever been near was a rifle in 7mm REM Mag with the boss system on it. If you were next to it you have to have on ear plugs & ear muffs to keep the noise out. I also shot the rifle & it wasn't bad when you were firing it. It seems to be worse for the bystanders than the shooters.

MY 308 Bellm shoots 1 - 1 1/4" groups regularly with the muzzle tamer on it. I like it !
Rich Jake

MEPLAT It is a free country but you showing up with a brake on a gun and making everyone else wear muffs to your liking is not what is meant by a free country. The comment that after you shot they put their muffs on, most shooters would have at least given them fair warning. That is called COURTESY and if you want to keep shooting at that range you would be better off to let them know or you might not me allowed to shoot a braked gun there later

pistoljess: As always it is better to read my posts. I said they were shooting with the plugs hanging around their neck. I am courteous if someone is just coming on the line and I am about to shoot. I am also courteous when people come to watch others shoot too and they need to be alerted to the gunfire. But I AM NOT a baby sitter, if you are on the range shooting wear hearing protectors plain and simple. I am not going to check everyone to see if they are wearing hearing protection especially if firing is going on and they should be wearing them anyway. There is such a thing as others being responsible too not only me. I am responsible where it counts and that is what matters. Trying to be a baby sitter may be some others way of being responsible and that is well and good. Have a good day and remember: When at the range wear hearing protectors and put them in when you get there not after someone fires a shot to remind you where you are. Oh yes I use to frequent a range where two little elderly men would shoot and we all had to watch them like a hawk because they would start walking down to their targets without telling anyone. Guess what I was one of the responsible ones and watched out for them too. I'm sorry to be such a bad person.

The only gun I have with a brake on it is my Savage Striker[243 win]. It dos't kick enough to need a brake. I have shot it a couple of times with the brake open and the blast is far worse than it's bite. Last time I was at a public range I had a man complane about the noise it made and I had the brake clossed. I don't know what he would of said if I had been shooting my 358JDJ.My 357 Mag revolver[ cylinder gap] always seems louder than the rest of my guns. As far as hunting I never notice the noise or recoil when hunting. I am sure I still do damage to my hearing the 2 or 3 time I shoot while hunting every year. Lone Hunter

Fireball,

This is a good topic for conversation but is always the same. There are those that love breaks and those that would like to go out and cut every brake off from every rifle and handgun.

I have a somewhat "middle of the road" view of muzzle breaks so I'll try to explain my opinion best I can.

I feel the decision to put a brake on a rifle or handgun should be totally determined by the type of firearm it is and the way it will be used.

I shoot alot with 50 BMG rifles. Some of these are heavy bench rifles and some are lighter field rifles(if 30 lbs is light!) With the heavy bench rifles, some will top the scale at 100 pounds but most are in the 35-50 pound range. In all honesty, these rifles could be fired without a muzzle break. They would not be fun, especially after a full round of shooting but it could be done, especially the heaviest of these.

Thing is though, go to a FCSA match and you won't see one rifle without a muzzle break.

When your trying to slip bullets into tiny groups at 1000 yards, you can not get shooting fatique, at all or your groups and scores will fall.

With the light field guns the muzzle break is a flat out requirement, end of discussion.

There was a comment earlier about why breaks are so bad. One comment was that they dent truck hoods and cover the shooters with flying dirt when fired.

This tells me that these shooters have little experience with the wide array of muzzle breaks on the market. If they are shooting a brake with ports on 360 degrees of the muzzle then yes, they will have problems.

This is why there are many brakes that have been designed with solid bottoms to prevent just this problem. And if anyone says these do not work as well as the 360 degree versions than they know even less then we though before.

With a cover over my windshield, I have fired my LAR Grizzly 50 BMG using my hood for a rest while on the ranch busting rocks at a mile. My hood looks like brand new.

Going away from monsters like the 50 BMG and into hunting rifles, I will say that I own alot of big game rifles from the 25-06 up to the 375 RUM and will not have a break on them. Simply because there is no need to do so. My custom 300 RUM weights 7.5 pounds and with its load of a 180 gr Ballistic Silvertip at 3420 fps, it kicks plenty but for the limited shooting I do with it there is not a problem. Nor is it hard to shoot 3/4 moa groups with it out to 500 yards.

So for big game rifles, I feel there is no real need for a brake.

Now lets talk about Varmint rifles. Most would never ever consider having a brake installed on a varmint rifle but this is an area where I feel they make alot of sense.

Let me say that I do not own a varmint rifle with a brake on it but have shot dozens that do and they are great. If you have ever fired 500 rounds from a 22-250 out of even a 11 pound rifle, the recoil will become noticeable. With the 223 class rounds there is no need but if you use the larger rounds for high volume shooting they work great.

Again, use a design that was ment for shooting prone or from a bench, not the old style 360 drgree hole fest.

Another aspect of varmint hunting where a muzzle brake is a very good idea is when shooting at mid(500 yards) to long(750 yards) and even extreme range(+1000 yards).

When using a varmint round producing around 4000 fps, without a spotter and a very good one at that, the shooter will not see his bullet impact until range gets out past 750 yards. At this range it is possible for the shooter to recover from a light recoiling rifle and spot his own hit or miss.

With a good muzzle brake on a varmint weight rifle, 12-20 pounds, chambered for anything up to the big 30 cal. magnums, a shooter can watch his bullets land easily. If you don;t shoot at these range then you won't know what I'm talking about but if you do then you know full well.

One example of mine is my custom 6mm-284. I designed this rifle to shoot the 107 gr Sierra MK bullet and does it ever. Velocities out of its 30" Lilja barrel average right at 3600 fps. One inch groups at 500 yards is not uncommon. Problem is that these long bullets driven that fast create alot of torque and even though the rifle weights 19 pounds, I can not see a bullet land unless the range is pushing 1000 yards.

I recently shot another hot 6mm wildcat that produces similiar but velocities with same bullets and can easily see bullets land even at 200 yards because it has a Holland Quick Discharge muzzle brake on the barrel. My big 6 will have one on before my new chuck gets hammered at 1000 yards.

One final aspect where I fully endorse muzzle breaks is with extreme recoiling single shot handguns. This does not include revolvers or semi-auto handguns.

If a revolver or semi-auto has to much recoil for you then get a smaller gun.

I use specialty single shot handguns for most of my big game hunting and on my two largest, I have a Holland brake. This year I used my XP-100 in the 338-300 WSM wildcat for my entire hunting season. Out of its 15" barrel, I drive the 180 gr Ballistic Tip to an honest 2950 fps. Thats damn near 300 Win Mag performance. This generates a little bit of recoil.

Because of the stock design of the XP-100, without the brake there is a very good chance that the stock would fail rather quickly from the heavy recoil even though it is a laminated wood stock that has been glass bedded to the action, there just isn't much bearing surface for the recoil lug. This is the main reason I put brakes on heavy kickers on the XP-100. Not to mention it feels like I'm shooting 38 Spl loads in a Ruger BH 357, no recoil at all.

And the noise, my 480 Ruger rings my ears worse.

I do not shoot at organized shooting ranges, simply because I don't have to and they are a very big waste of time. I know I am lucky to have a personal range that can extent to the 3 mile mark but everytime I've been to a range, it was stupid people, not brake that annoyed the hell out of me.

I guess a brake at a crowded shooting range could be a problem but I haven't been to a range yet except for a match where all the stations were full. If you have a brake keep your distance.

At the other end of the rule, I have set and watched people intentionally set up right next to a shooter using a rifle or handgun with a brake for the sole purpose of being able to complain about all the blast and noise. If you don;t like brakes stay away from them and don't go looking for a problem.

Everyone has the right to their opinion but be polite and don't cause problems for others.

So to recap my stand on breaks:

When to use them:
-50 BMG shooting
-Varmint hunting
-Extreme range varmint hunting
-Extreme recoiling single shot handguns

When not to use them:
-Big game rifles
-Varmint rifles chambered for the 223 class and smaller rounds.
-Revolvers and Semi-auto's

Hold this helps!

Good Shooting!!!

50

A number of my specialty handguns have a brakes. Some don't. Mag-na-port is quite painful in a FA 454 Casuall and in my 284 Win XP-100 if you have no hearing protection. To me the Vais brakes (which I now use if I have one put on) are "quieter" compared to other brakes I have used or been around in my opinion.
I double my hearing protection when shooting at the range or dog shooting. I would say I have some form of hearing protection on while hunting big game over 50% of the time (I'm trying increase that %). If my 284 XP were only for big game I wouldn't any have kind of porting or a brake. But since I use it for long range shooting and dog shooting the lessened recoil allows me to shoot it up to 80-100 rounds a day while dog shooting and still be accurate and enjoy myself. My daughter uses a 260 Remington in a MOA which has their own brake. I braked to make the recoil soft for her. I make sure she always has hearing protection even when hunting. If there is room on a range I move away from people so I won't bother them. They usually are over by my bench after awhile just to see the weird things I shoot & a majority of the time end up shooting one or two of my handguns. I don't hate brakes even though if I could do it over again some of them would not have been ported or braked. At other times I wished I could have a different brake than what was on there to begin with. Some porting will harm accuracy that is proven-no doubt. Some brakes will also enhance accuracy. This has been realized in the 1,000 yard shooting (but that is not why I have braked my guns in the past). For me a Brake or Port has nothing to do with Bravado, testosterone, or looking cool. I really don't care about the looks. That is why I rarely use wood, unless it is laminated. I want a specialty pistol that will perform to the parameters (accuracy, optics, all-weather, light trigger pull, etc) I have had it built for. Asthetics are of no concern for me. I even own a Glock!
xphunter

Some brakes will also enhance accuracy. This has been realized in the 1,000 yard shooting

XP... The brake I have on my 1000 match 300 is the Varmiter from EA brown and It might have helped the accuracy a little.

As for Ear protection when hunting I use the Plugs on a string types in the feild. I have yet to find a time when I could not just POP them in when I Spotted my deer. for me I have not just JUMPED on yet and had time sinece most deer for me here in KALIFORNIA have been spotted and or stalked at 80 yards or farther....Unlucky me.
I have just refused to EVER let my SON shoot anytime without ear protection.

I wish his ears to last LONGER than mine did do to POOR hunting practices which I chainged much too late in life. And we surely need to teach our Up and coming kids the PROPER way too hunt without damaging their ears......Kinda life the Hauns device in Nascar........No one needed or wanted it till it was regulated in after Earnharts Death...they all bitched and Moaned making poor excuses....now they all are working on even better devices to save lives.

Anyone ever wonder if we should turn the tide on our own with ear protection and better shooting saftey BEFORE the government does it for us???...SCARY
reasons for not using them are Just Excuses!
Old and BAD habits die hard

People may do as they wish.....I vote FOR ear protection for me and my family personally

Fireball

When not to use them:
-Big game rifles
-Varmint rifles chambered for the 223 class and smaller rounds.
-Revolvers and Semi-auto's

Fiftydriver very good article you wrote!
But every has so many different opinions on brakes.
Have you been to many shoots latley?
The brakes are becoming very WELCOM in all classes including the small calibers. they like to see the bullet hit and even the Rimfire crowd is now using them with much success.
I love my Brakes. as for the noise?? I wear ear plugs or more ALWAYS.\
as for the muzzle blast??? Never seems to be a problem to the guys that shot with me..infact most are getting brakes now days to HELP accuracy and consistancy form shot to shot.
And with my 300 Ultra...Boy is it nice to not get my But kicked after 40 or 50 rounds on the bench.

Fireball