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| One of Us |
I looked seriously at the NAA Mini-Revolvers in 22 LR. The whole idea being that they'd get packed around when I didn't feel like packing a handgun.  I have a NAA Guardian 32 ACP. The Guardian is a knock-off of the Seacamp, slightly larger.  It's "The gun I carry when I'm not armed." This is not a high risk neighborhood, besides which, there's a rifle in the truck. Kel-Tec P-32 is smaller than the Guardian, lighter, locked-breech rather than blow-back, and has one more round capacity. I owned one and sold it because it felt like a squirt gun. What I'd like in a "carry gun" is something the size of the NAA Mini-Revolver, 45 ACP, 15 rds, a 5" bbl. -- and not heavy! Until they come up with it, there's a niche for the very small defense gun. Very small. I have one, and carry it when I'm not armed.  | ||
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I was involved in the investigation of two shootings involving the NAA .22lr revolvers. Both domestics, one was quite sad but the gun worked and the theat was terminated. The second was a ex-boyfriend who started showing how big of a man he was to his 19 year old ex-gf and her mom when he caught them in the parking lot of a business. They retreated back into the store and the manager locked the door. Ex-bf broke the glass out of the door and climbed in threatening the two ladies, when he got too close mom pulled a NAA revolver out of her purse and ventilated the young fellow's kneecap. He hopped out of the store and drove himself to the hospital. It worked. | |||
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I went the other way for my "unarmed" gun--sold my Seecamp and NAA 32 and have Keltecs now. Light functional and believe it or not--accurate--not that it matters that much at point blank. DuggaBoye-O NRA-Life Whittington-Life TSRA-Life DRSS DSC HSC SCI | |||
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I have had one of those .22 LR revolvers for as long as I can remember. I carry it a lot as a backup or if I suddenly want to become an assassin like the guy in that movie shot in Argentina a few years ago. That was his weapon of choice. All the other movie bad boys use Glocks or Desert Eagles. Here's this pro, capping the general in his back yard with a baby .22. Great movie and some good tango scenes in it as well. Wish I could recall the name. | |||
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Was it Assassination Tango --Robert Duvall? An old associate of mine has several of these, in belt buckles boot heels, etc ---  DuggaBoye-O NRA-Life Whittington-Life TSRA-Life DRSS DSC HSC SCI | |||
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"Assassination Tango" -- Robt. Duvall. Yeah, that's the one. | |||
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Yep, sure is. Good movie. | |||
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Keep your NAA Guardian 32ACp. I have one and will keep it. I have one of the mini revolvers(in parts, again) They are a TOY. I have chrono'ed rounds from it, the 1 1/8" barrel will only give you about 500 fps. With BIG vel. devations. Std vel. to Stingers, no difference. Not to mention that they are just too small to handle well. When you put one of thte "pocket knife grips" on it you might as well carry the Guardian I agree, that a 32acp is only good while in "polite" company. My (early) Kimber 45acp is for everyday. Keith IGNORE YOUR RIGHTS AND THEY'LL GO AWAY!!! ------------------------------------ We Band of Bubbas & STC Hunting Club, The Whomper Club | |||
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Walking to the shops at 11:30 last Friday night I'd have been way happier with ANYTHING that went bang. But that would get me nicked. And I'm not even in a real bad part of North London. It gets worse here all the time. The scum on the streets have almost nothing to fear from the public, so it gets out of control and is very hard to get sorted again. "When doing battle, seek a quick victory." | |||
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We know.  | |||
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More constructive contribution, huh BBBrucie?? I shot a deringer many years ago in 10mm, and while it was a bit much, it would make a great little pocketable backup piece. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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somewhere in a rack i've got one of those little freedom 22/s -= shot a bear with it one day. we've got a fishing cabin and had a pesky black bear making a mess. while we were sitting around the table he came back and tried to break into a kitchen window. i gave him a round in the head at the great range of perhaps 6". didn't kill it but he sure left in a hurry and never came back | |||
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My choices are Beretta 950 Jetfire, 22 short or long. S&@ 360PD for sweat pants, Kahr PM9 most of the time, and Detonics Combatmaster in 45 Super for serious work. | |||
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No surprise that you didn't gettit. | |||
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Just wondering why you are hanging around a forum about guns. Seems incongruous in the least. I guess this forum is another post-count vehicle, huh BBBrucie?? Do you carry, by chance? Do you own a derringer? Shot one? "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Because I am a shooter. Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh.
Being Canadian, of course not. The law doesn't allow it. Although we all cross the line sometimes, I think it is a bad thing for all shooters when gun owners deliberately and continuously defy the law with guns. I also think you guys have a real problem with violence in the US. Unlawful carry is a big part of it. Look at guys like jetdrvr, essentially bragging that he trolls for somebody to shoot. Others have said the same thing. The reality is that 90% or more of all shootings happen at times and places where decent people don't go. Of course in a free country you have the right to be there, but I'm not talking strict legal rights. Most people who end up needing defence lawyers would not need them if they had been where decent people oughtta be. | |||
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Actually, statistically (over here in the US), where the gun laws are looser -- meaning CCWs must be issued and open carry is alright, violent crime is much lower then places that have strict gun control -- Washington, DC for example. When predators aren't sure who is armed and lots of people are, they don't victimize as many people. We'll see how Heller shakes out........particularly in DC. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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As far as mouse guns go, I love my Kel-Tec .380ACP...LOVE IT, LOVE IT, LOVE IT! It's a big advantage over a NAA mini-revolver or Bond derringer. It's lightweight, holds 7 shots and is the perfect concealed carry gun when wearing t-shirt and shorts. Or when riding the Harley. It gives me peace of mind. So does having a cell phone, until you get out of range of the cell phone tower. | |||
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I've heard the argument before but I am not convinced it is as strong as some say. Many factors go into what causes concentrations of violent crime, poverty being the biggie. Most violent crime does not happen in nice middle class neighbourhoods. Mind you, as the US middle class shrinks you might get more problems everywhere. | |||
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Odd that our politicians don't get what someone from another country does. That said, first off, the NAA revolvers are supposed to really suck. I looked into them a bit. As things are getting worse, and my particular area is unfunded this year, and I'm currently having to move, into a less expensive place, I find the idea of limiting poor people's ability to protect themselves particularly abhorent, since they are the folks that need to be able to protect themselves from the thugs more then others, and, are more likely to be hit with random violence then others. | |||
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Valid argument. What do you think of those who illegally carry concealed weapons? | |||
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It depends on what you mean by 'illegally'. Is it 'illegally' as in people that break the speed limit when driving? IIRC, the actual deaths or injuries from CCW, or for that matter firearms in general, is really small compared to the injuries from drunk driving, and, other forms of civil disobediance. Most of the firearms related deaths are suicides. Is 'illegally' passing a law that is contrary to the Constitution you swore to uphold? I find it a bit strange that after 200 years, the Supreme Court finally rules it's an individual right to have firearms, and, the District courts try and strip it, by saying the 2A is not incorporated, what the hell is that, against the states? It's a strange world where the 9th circuit is the only one that affirms the 2A is incorporated, though this is up for en banc review, possibly. I hope the USSC clears this up. We have reached a point where the gun laws fail a means of statutory review. The first question the courts ask in reviewing statutes is is the statute clear, and can that statute be understood by a normal person? Second, if not, what was the legislative intent, and, was that intent lawful under the US Constitution? If so, does it fail by being vague, or overly broad? I have a real problem with the entire concept of 'illegally carry concealed weapons'. First off, under the equal protection clause of the Constitution, you have a serious problem, since I firmly believe that CCW approvals affect blacks, women, and other 'protected' groups. If that is the case, most should fail under the strict scrutiny standard they should be reviewed under. All you really have to do is look at Heller, and the demographics of the city, and, who wrote the laws. You have 60% blacks. You have a congress that actually can write, and approve all laws in Washington D.C. as part of their defined duties in the US Constitution. For 25 years, the rich congress folk have driven around in limos, protected by the Secret Service, while any law abiding poor blacks are at the mercy of black gangs, who really don't care about D.C. gun laws. What this means, and this IS a Commerce Clause argument, is that perhaps due to the unfair enforcement of CCW permits, law abiding citizens who are denied permits are forced to alter their travel plans, due to the threat of gun violence in particular areas that are known for gang violence, or random violence. How about the guy Bey(SP?) that just shot a white guy in North Oakland, an area we used to visit at Christmas, since part of the family lived in a rather rough area, because he was white, and this was a black area? | |||
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"The problem with saving lives with an illegally concealed weapon is that you are relying on the common law doctrine of necessity, unless there is a statutory provision dealing with the issue. "Necessity" says that you have a defence to committing an offence if the thing you were trying to prevent was more serious than what you did to prevent it, and there was no legal option. For example, drunk driving is defensible if you are the only person available to drive and you are taking a life threatening injury victim to hospital. But how would you apply carrying a concealed handgun to a necessity defence? You would have to prove that you knew you were going to need the gun when you started to carry, not just when you needed it. You would also have to prove that there was no other option, such as calling police. Granted a fiction writer could dream up scenarios, but they would be convoluted and you would be lucky to be believed. You might get away with the shooting itself under necessity, but would likely be charged with illegal possession." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necessity_in_English_law Keep in mind that necessity is NOT what you are relying on. What you are relying on is self-defense. 'In the United States, the defense of self-defense allows a person attacked to use reasonable force in their own defense and the defense of others. For the theory explaining why this is allowed as an excuse or justification, see Self-defense While the statutes defining the legitimate use of force in defense of a person vary from state to state, the general rule makes an important distinction between the use of physical force and deadly physical force. A person may use physical force to prevent imminent physical injury, however a person may not use deadly physical force unless that person is in reasonable fear of serious physical injury or death. Some state statutes also include a duty to retreat (notable exceptions include Louisiana and Florida: see stand-your-ground law), wherein deadly physical force may only be used if the person acting in self defense is unable to safely retreat. A person is generally not obligated to retreat if in one's own home (for example, a person doesn't have to retreat from the living room to the kitchen, then to the bedroom, then to the bathroom) in what has come to be called the "castle exception" (derived from the expression "A man's home is his castle")." | |||
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You missed the whole point. Of course you would have a defence to the actual shooting. I expressly said that. You would not have a defence to illegally carrying the concealed weapon. If police choose not to prosecute because it was a little old lady facing a monster, she gets off lucky. | |||
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I am a shooter on a public website discussing how shooters should behave with firearms. Shooters should not be seen as deliberately and systematically breaking weapons laws because they think they know better than the law. That's what I mean.
No. In the eyes of the law passing an unconstitutional law is not "illegal". It is politics. Only courts can declare a law unconstitutional, and only after the fact. Even then a law is not illegal. It is simply struck down in whole or in part. People previously convicted by it remain guilty after it is struck down. Until a law is struck down the fact that you disagree with it is irrelevant - it is still the law. If you want to challenge it go ahead. If you win that's great, you're not guilty. But if you lose you are guilty. If you win and an appeals court sets aside the lower court decision, you are guilty. That's how constitutional law works. | |||
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notice how the others simply stated what they had used and carried in the way of mouse guns, and BBBpainintheasswasteoftimeandbandwidth had to get into a legal argument saying we shouldn't have guns in case ya'll haven't noticed BBBruce is a drunk, a troll, and a lawyer, in addition to being a spectacular waste of time if you don't respond to him, he will go away and we can get back on the topic of guns and not his opinion on the law, which is not the topic of any thread here. BBBruce, please go back to the crater. | |||
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So much for the conservative argument that they all post reasonably and politely and like to see both sides of the issue, eh? Fortunately all conservatives are not like our friend dan. Some people are unable to think it through, others are too intolerant, I guess. Pshawwwww. Ain't had a drink since '84. So, Dan, does this name calling mean you want to muzzle the guys I discuss with? Do you have the mental capacity for debate? Or do you prefer just to hate and look for reassurance from others? | |||
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 Pretty insecure, eh? Shout out an argument then run and hide. No wonder he's a heavy hitter on a thread called "mouse guns". | |||
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ANY CHANCE (IN HELL) WE MIGHT GET BACK ON TOPIC? IT'S "MOUSE GUNS" -- WHICH ARE SMALL CALIBER (LESS THAN 380 ACP) "POCKET PISTOLS." Despite the general objection "9mm is useless" I have a Kahr MK9 Elite that is 6+1 9mm Para, and about the size of a Colt Mustang (380 ACP). Colleagues disparage the 9mm, but I have it with me when they leave their 45 ACP or .357 mag at home. | |||
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Back to the topic at hand. There have been times when I carried a Mouse gun when no bigger gun could be carried. I had a NAA 22LR, a High Standard 22 Mag 2 shot derringer, and a Baby Browning 25ACP. I consider a mouse gun better than nothing. In my former job I have seen several people killed with mouse guns, many times with one shot. If you live where concealed carry is legal then I recommend you carry something bigger. If you live where your rights have been restricted, but you plan to carry any way, I would skip the mouse guns and "jump up" to a Rat Gun [I just made this term up], and get one of the small 32 ACP, 380's or a S&W 5 shot "Chief" revolvers. When it is all said and done, considering power, reliability, and ease of concealibility, a J Frame S&W is the BEST choice, in a small handgun, IMHO. ANY handgun, even a mouse gun, is better than NO gun, IF you are not afraid to use it. Mouse guns make good second or third carry handguns as well. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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450: The S&W triggers, at least my 360PD, is really horrible. The Kahr 9mm PM has a MUCH better trigger, and, thanks to that, is much more accurate, and, it's nearly half the price. The Kahr CW is even half the price ot the PM, though slightly bigger. The S&@ are lighter by 25 percent, but, not as flat or compact. I should say the 360PD is my pocket carry gun due to it's very lightweight. Works in sweatpants, something the Kahr does not. | |||
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I don't have a mouse gun anymore, at least by the definition of "less than 380". But I had a MAB Model D in 32 ACP a long time ago. It was the service-issue pistol for French police and I wish I still had it. Outstanding ergonomics, pointability and very concealable. Had various Bersas and they were junk. Had a Grendel 10-shot 380 that was fine with American ammo but European surplus 380 broke the recoil spring guide rod under the barrel. Figured it was too fragile and sold it too. I'v heard since that CIP MAP is higher than SAMMI MAP for the 380 (9mm Kurz). Anyone know if the 380 and 9mm Kurz are the same round? "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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These hardly take up any room, fit pockets easily & unobtrusively:  NRA Life Member, Band of Bubbas Charter Member, PGCA, DRSS. Shoot & hunt with vintage classics. | |||
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Brucie, you keep posting the same thing. The timestamp changes, but you don't. Don't you have anything more useful to say? | |||
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Can I answer that question? NO. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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If I ever plan on shooting mice, I will get a mouse gun. Until then my smallest gun is a J frame and the smallest I will carry as an only weapon is a Kahr P9. With spares. | |||
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I have the turd on Ignore, so thanks for bringing that to my attention. Were I to become an assassin, Juicy, you'd be my first hit. And I wouldn't use a NAA .22 for the job. | |||
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On the bikes I carry the Beretta 21A in my left pocket so I can keep my right hand on the throttle..... ______________________ Smedley  ______________________ From Audacity of Hope: 'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.' B.H.Obullshitter ------------------------------------ "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery" Winston Churchill ------------------------------------ "..it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.." Samuel Adams ------------------------------------ Facts are immaterial to liberals. Twisted perceptions however are invaluable. ------------------------------------ We Americans were tired of being thought of as dumb, by the rest of the world. So we went to the polls in November 2008 and removed all doubt.....let's not do it again in 2012 please. | |||
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Ain't worth the energy to lift your arm....he ain't nothing but a Self-Rightous POS..... Everybody here, especially in this forum should put his ass on ignore and leave it there..... ______________________ Smedley ______________________ From Audacity of Hope: 'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.' B.H.Obullshitter ------------------------------------ "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery" Winston Churchill ------------------------------------ "..it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.." Samuel Adams ------------------------------------ Facts are immaterial to liberals. Twisted perceptions however are invaluable. ------------------------------------ We Americans were tired of being thought of as dumb, by the rest of the world. So we went to the polls in November 2008 and removed all doubt.....let's not do it again in 2012 please. | |||
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