Senate and house passed permit-less carry on to the governor.

Who has said he well sign it.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Senate and house passed permit-less carry on to the governor.

Who has said he well sign it.

It’s interesting that while the Federal government and some states are moving toward more restrictions, that many states are moving toward more freedom when it comes to carry regulations.

When the Texas goes into effect.

More then 50% of the land mass of the USA will have permit-less carry.

Going constitutional carry will negate the current reciprocal agreement with many states. Don't know if us Texans gained or lost where we can carry but there is no tax now which was an infringement.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Going constitutional carry will negate the current reciprocal agreement with many states. Don't know if us Texans gained or lost where we can carry but there is no tax now which was an infringement.

No it will not the permit process is still available if one wants a permit.

Yes I understand that taxation on a "right" is an infringement. However I have had a CCL since the program started here + I keep it up, just because.; Besides, I once spent a Saturday night in jail because the cop didn't know the law. Charges were dropped of course but that was still a night in jail for no reason. He was so pissed when the charges were dropped, he was a real A.H., seriously, he gave his own mother a ticket.

I totally disagree with permit free carry! The reason is that I believe no one should be carrying a firearm without a back ground check. That being said, the law has been changed in Texas allowing open carry with the permit we have now, and I disagree with that as well, because open carry gives a person who is up to no good to have an advantage. Where with a legal carry concealed makes a permit person an "unknown" to be, armed or not, and possibly a danger to a perp who is up to no good.

I have had a permit to carry since three months before permits became law in Texas, and have never carried openly since that became law as well, and don't intend to start carrying openly even though it is legal now.
There are a lot of folks who SHOULDNT be allowed to carry at all, and we need to know that those people will not be carrying a fire arm legally.

However if the law opens open carry to everyone I believe we will be in a shooting range on a daily basis.

..................................I vote NO on permit less carry. MacD37

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
I totally disagree with permit free carry! The reason is that I believe no one should be carrying a firearm without a back ground check. That being said, the law has been changed in Texas allowing open carry with the permit we have now, and I disagree with that as well, because open carry gives a person who is up to no good to have an advantage. Where with a legal carry concealed makes a permit person an "unknown" to be, armed or not, and possibly a danger to a perp who is up to no good.

I have had a permit to carry since three months before permits became law in Texas, and have never carried openly since that became law as well, and don't intend to start carrying openly even though it is legal now.
There are a lot of folks who SHOULDNT be allowed to carry at all, and we need to know that those people will not be carrying a fire arm legally.

However if the law opens open carry to everyone I believe we will be in a shooting range on a daily basis.

..................................I vote NO on permit less carry. MacD37

Mac, I am totally in agreement. I also have CHL/LTC. Even though the course was a joke, the background check and fingerprints I still some confidence.

T0 carry your gun openly is just plain stupid by people who have never needed to carry a gun daily..

I carry concealed and if some perp walks into a resturant or place of business and tells all to stick'um up, he knows whos packing openly as it is so obvious, so he disarms them or if he is having a bad day just shoots the stupid jerk!! Im concealed so I,d just wait until I get a chance and shoot the bad guy between the shoulder blades, there is no second place under those circumstances..I base my view on 40 year plus in state and federral law enforcement..Use your head for something besides a hat rack, you life is more important than your ego..I cannot think of ANY reason to carry an exposed firearm..

quote:

However if the law opens open carry to everyone I believe we will be in a shooting range on a daily basis.

One must have a very low opinion of Texans.

Or they are lacking in self control.

As it has not happen in any of the other 20 states that have permit-less carry

I investigate gun crime (shootings) for a living. Gun laws have almost no bearing (especially carry laws) on gun crime. Enforcing the existing gun laws (felons and gang members using guns in crimes) would be a great start.

Yes it would. I never carry mine openly but I keep the license + I must agree that one that goes through the course (admittedly lame) but with a fingerprint background check, I think should be more comforting to any LEO that pulls someone over that he/she has gone through the check out system over someone that you know nothing about.

quote:

Originally posted by NormanConquest:
Yes it would. I never carry mine openly but I keep the license + I must agree that one that goes through the course (admittedly lame) but with a fingerprint background check, I think should be more comforting to any LEO that pulls someone over that he/she has gone through the check out system over someone that you know nothing about.

Let's look at Law Enforcement.

There is one section of Law Enforcement that has a higher percentage of contacts with armed citizens being openly armed then any other.

Yet they have the lowest rate of being shot or shooting citizens then most others.

They do not regularly pull their firearms during contacts with citizens.

Game wardens.

Rural LEO's are in contact with armed citizens all the time.

Yet they not panic at the sight of a firearm.

I have made thousands of traffic stops where there was a fire arm in the vehicle. Some times I saw it some times I was told about it.

Most of the time it was no big deal.

A few caused me to raise my alert status.

A few caused me to draw my firearm and take appropriate action.

People would ask me how to tell the good guys from the bad guys.

Good guys don't point their guns at you or try and shoot you They don't threaten to kill you or attack you..

They don't start the conversation off with

What the f--k to you want

Where you see scared LEO's are from the big anti gun liberal cities where the LEO's have had it beat into their heads.

Every body with a gun is bad.

So being armed openly or conceal if one acts reasonably when one has contact with most LEO's being armed is no big deal

If you live, work, travel into one of those very anti firearm places.

It pays to be on ones best behavior.

Or avoid them.

About 12 years ago I got pulled over for "license plate obstruction" (just fishing" as I had no obstruction. When I gave the rookies cop chick mt D.L + my CHL she went into panic mode + pulled her piece, "HANDS ON YOUR HEAD; HANDS ON THE WHEEL!" I stayed calm (thank God) while her seargent was over at the side looking at the ground + shaking his head. I hope afterward he tore her a new one. I mentioned this to a buddy of mine who is a dispatcher for the Austin Fire Dept. He said, it's a damn good thing you stayed calm. We are 1st responders + white folks get shot ALL the time but it never makes the news.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

However if the law opens open carry to everyone I believe we will be in a shooting range on a daily basis.

One must have a very low opinion of Texans.

Or they are lacking in self control.

As it has not happen in any of the other 20 states that have permit-less carry

I was born in Texas, and when I die I will be Texas dead!
Just like any state Texas has some very bad areas where about two thirds of the residents are criminals. When you have a couple million residents in one city there will be a reason to carry, or stay out of that area. These places have hundreds of people, who under the law are not allowed to carry, open, or canceled, but they carry anyway. Those folks wouldn't pass a background check, and that is why I say unlimited carry, regardless of a persons back ground, is simply not a good idea.
.................................. MacD37

[quote]Those folks wouldn't pass a background check, and that is why I say unlimited carry, regardless of a persons back ground, is simply not a good idea[/quote

If person is a prohibited possessor under the old law they are still one under the new law.

The new law doesn't change anything there.

If they have carried illegality before they most likely will still carry illegally now.

I really hate to say this + give the antis any fodder but there REALLY are a lot of folks out there that have no business owning or even holding a firearm. pdog, I agree completely + there will never be a change unless (big maybe) there is a drastic change in the enforcement of existing gun laws (+ I'm talking SEVERE jail time) + no more country clubs.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
[quote]Those folks wouldn't pass a background check, and that is why I say unlimited carry, regardless of a persons back ground, is simply not a good idea[/quote

If person is a prohibited possessor under the old law they are still one under the new law.

The new law doesn't change anything there.

If they have carried illegality before they most likely will still carry illegally now.

P Dog shooter, you are absolutely correct with your last sentence! However, with a background check card will tell the law enforcement officer that the person is or is not allowed to be carrying a firearm and can be arrested on the spot when found carrying. I agree with allowing everyone to carry as long as he/she has a background of a law abiding with no criminal back ground. As Norman conquest says, at least everyone carrying should have a clean background, if not when found carrying he should be arrested on the spot, and held accountable to the courts.
I don't think that is an unreasonable answer to this, a simple background check card in one's pocket when carrying. That my fine friend is not unreasonable in my opinion.

............................. MacD37

quote:

However, with a background check card will tell the law enforcement officer that the person is or is not allowed to be carrying a firearm and can be arrested on the spot when found carrying. I agree with allowing everyone to carry as long as he/she has a background of a law abiding with no criminal back ground.

I might have agree with you pre computer days.

Takes mere seconds to check any one criminal history now days.

In can say if you get stopped the officer going to check Card or not.

That is just the way it works.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

However, with a background check card will tell the law enforcement officer that the person is or is not allowed to be carrying a firearm and can be arrested on the spot when found carrying. I agree with allowing everyone to carry as long as he/she has a background of a law abiding with no criminal back ground.

I might have agree with you pre computer days.

Takes mere seconds to check any one criminal history now days.

In can say if you get stopped the officer going to check Card or not.

That is just the way it works.

It has always been that when stopped by a policeman a person automatically offers his driver's license, and if carrying also required to show his legality to be carrying a firearm. In that case the OK background could be on his/her driver's license. In my opinion everyone driving a car should be background anyway to show not only the firearm, but his driving record being clean as well.

The mandated opening to all Americans unlimited right to drive a car, and/or carrying of a firearm is not automatic without something to prove them responsible citizens for either permission.

....................No-one here is obligated to agree with my opinion, but I do have the right to express it! MacD37

quote:

The mandated opening to all Americans unlimited right to drive a car, and/or carrying of a firearm is not automatic without something to prove them responsible citizens for either permission.

What or why do we have the 2nd amendment.

There is no Right to drive a car saying it shall not be infringed.

True, operating a vehicle after licensing is a privilege; owning a gun in America is a RIGHT; therein lies the difference.

quote:

Originally posted by NormanConquest:
True, operating a vehicle after licensing is a privilege; owning a gun in America is a RIGHT; therein lies the difference.

The difference is between OWNING and UNLIMITED CARRYING in public, THAT is the big difference in this case.

Like everyone here, I too don't want all my firearms confiscated and put in a crusher, but I have a background check as ,for now, the right to carry in Texas is with, at least, a background check. I simply do not agree with known criminals having the right to carry
in public and a background check is the KEY to avoiding them to carry, and if found carrying being given heavy jail time.
This may happen, but if it does, I think those here who want it, without at least a background check, will soon change their minds!

.................................. MacD37

quote:

I simply do not agree with known criminals having the right to carry

Could you please show us in the law where known criminals will have the right to carry under it.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

The difference is between OWNING and UNLIMITED CARRYING in public, THAT is the big difference in this case.

Like everyone here, I too don't want all my firearms confiscated and put in a crusher, but I have a background check as ,for now, the right to carry in Texas is with, at least, a background check. I simply do not agree with known criminals having the right to carry
in public
.................................. MacD37

1) The 2A enumerates a “Right to keep and bear arms”. Your gun locked in the safe at home might as well not exist.

2) Under US jurisprudence an innocent person doesn’t have to prove they are innocent, the government has to prove they are guilty.

3) Prohibited persons will still be “prohibited” from owning, possessing or carrying a firearm.

4) None of the other states with Constitutional Carry have become the OK Corral. What makes you think the good people of Texas will fare worse?

quote:

Originally posted by Rick R:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

The difference is between OWNING and UNLIMITED CARRYING in public, THAT is the big difference in this case.

Like everyone here, I too don't want all my firearms confiscated and put in a crusher, but I have a background check as ,for now, the right to carry in Texas is with, at least, a background check. I simply do not agree with known criminals having the right to carry
in public
.................................. MacD37

1) The 2A enumerates a “Right to keep and bear arms”. Your gun locked in the safe at home might as well not exist.

2) Under US jurisprudence an innocent person doesn’t have to prove they are innocent, the government has to prove they are guilty.

3) Prohibited persons will still be “prohibited” from owning, possessing or carrying a firearm.

4) None of the other states with Constitutional Carry have become the OK Corral. What makes you think the good people of Texas will fare worse?

This exactly!!

That said, I do have a couple of related questions.

When we go constitutional carry, which I fully support, will the LTC be eliminated? The reason I ask, and the reason I would support keeping it and staying current in the program, is I really like the ability to purchase guns with the LTC and avoid having to go through the background check each time I make a new purchase. It's a nice feature of the LTC that your background check is already completed.

No the permit program stays in place for those who want them

True, I'm keeping mine up just because it helps to identify you in the case of getting pulled over for any reason.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

That said, I do have a couple of related questions.

When we go constitutional carry, which I fully support, will the LTC be eliminated? The reason I ask, and the reason I would support keeping it and staying current in the program, is I really like the ability to purchase guns with the LTC and avoid having to go through the background check each time I make a new purchase. It's a nice feature of the LTC that your background check is already completed.

Every state I know of has kept their permit system in place for reciprocal agreements. I know you guys in Texas rarely leave your beautiful state but here in the East it’s nice to travel and exercise your God given rights.

And the instant purchase option in lieu of a NCIS check is nice too.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick R:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

That said, I do have a couple of related questions.

When we go constitutional carry, which I fully support, will the LTC be eliminated? The reason I ask, and the reason I would support keeping it and staying current in the program, is I really like the ability to purchase guns with the LTC and avoid having to go through the background check each time I make a new purchase. It's a nice feature of the LTC that your background check is already completed.

Every state I know of has kept their permit system in place for reciprocal agreements. I know you guys in Texas rarely leave your beautiful state but here in the East it’s nice to travel and exercise your God given rights.

And the instant purchase option in lieu of a NCIS check is nice too.

We do travel outside God's country on occasion Rick. Everyone likes to visit the "wrong side of the tracks" every once in awhile!!

I agree 100% with your statements on why constitutional carry is the way. I'm also glad to hear the LTC program will survive, mainly as I stated, for purchase of new guns without the hassle of waiting on the background check. It's just nice to whip out that little card and be done with it.

The recip considerations are valid as well. I know some of the nay sayers were focused on loosing the recip rights but yeah, if you maintain the LTC, that should take care of that.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick R:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

The difference is between OWNING and UNLIMITED CARRYING in public, THAT is the big difference in this case.

Like everyone here, I too don't want all my firearms confiscated and put in a crusher, but I have a background check as ,for now, the right to carry in Texas is with, at least, a background check. I simply do not agree with known criminals having the right to carry
in public
.................................. MacD37

1) The 2A enumerates a “Right to keep and bear arms”. Your gun locked in the safe at home might as well not exist.

2) Under US jurisprudence an innocent person doesn’t have to prove they are innocent, the government has to prove they are guilty.

3) Prohibited persons will still be “prohibited” from owning, possessing or carrying a firearm.

4) None of the other states with Constitutional Carry have become the OK Corral. What makes you think the good people of Texas will fare worse?

Well stated Rick, thank you.

Its just another vote getting idea by a greedy careless politician..Arm the whole world might just get a lot of votes so some ass hole can walk around in Walmart with a 7.5 inch colt single action in a cowboy rig, and yes I witnessed that in Idaho a few weeks ago..He would scatter bullets everywhere while pissin down his leg in a robbery or maybe in a arguement..He was damn nut case potential...

I will tell you this the Cartels are moving into the USA daily with the open borders, buying nice homes and running from an unsafe Mexico and with them comes the violence like we have never seen..and Hollywood can't even match..Thats documented but seldom allowed for the public to know because some politician/government know whats best for us..and I am qualified to make this statement of honesty..its up to you to believe and ignore..

A person should be background checked, pass a written test and pass a shooting test to be allowed to carry a handgun in public, we do that for DL and nobodys complains..Im as pro gun as anyone but not uncontrolled guns to the masses..

Please Ray tell us where all the bad has happened .

Not where you live for sure.

Crime in Idaho is fairly new, but its increased like a run away train in the last 5 years, mostly the drug trade and immagration uncontrolled, they go together!! that ought to get a rise out of La Raza!! Folks are leaving California by the grooves to get their kids away from drugs, and the damn kids bring the gang attitude with them..A plague to the whole Pacific NW, add to that the legalization in many PNW states..and cartel members with unlimited amts of money moveing into the states with loose immagration that brings the good and the bad brings the violence of Mexico to our shores, thanks to Washington and those liberal bastards..We are arming ourselves because its needed, simple as that, but we need to know who the bad guys are, and be prepared, trained and licensed IMO..exposed firearms is totally ridiculas as is non licensed drivers..Its no threat to our constition to teach a non shooter to shoot and when not to shoot.

Soooo your in a resturant and you sneak shoot a killer, and a citizen seeing that gets brave and pulls his gun, what happens then? I might shoot him next??? at best You end up in a Mexican stand off, and both of you end up shot by the dead guys brother or whatever...these are situations that need to be brought to light in training schools...Permitless is a can of worms IMO..

P Dog,
Ive been where all the bad has happen and spent a long time there, between Brownsville and EL Paso and a lot of that time in Mexico..

As much as I support open carry, I can see your point Ray. A potential or actual shooting is, to say the least, a "high-stress environment." Those with no training whatsoever could possibly cause more trouble than they fix. But on the other hand, they might well prevent a problem from happening. Maybe. I do think that training is a good idea + I adhere to Coopers philosophy that mindset is the key. Much as I hate to admit, there are a lot of folks out there that have no business carrying a gun.

Norm,
well thats my point, the world today is full of nut cases and in my opine it takes a nut to reveal he has a gun, thats his best edge, and on that texas border and armed citizen is a big plus, but can he shoot or will he scatter bullets all over the place..Has he ever delt with cold fear wherein his action could get him killed...There are a lot of questions needing answering IMO..but whatever happens I will be ready, thats all I can guarentee..

I have a lot of retired old LE friends, and were all in touch with our still working friends. We get together once or twice a year and bring up such conversations and hear whats going on on the border with the cartel...We leave about as confused as we were when we got there! there are no answers! just opinnions..

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
T0 carry your gun openly is just plain stupid by people who have never needed to carry a gun daily..

I carry concealed and if some perp walks into a resturant or place of business and tells all to stick'um up, he knows whos packing openly as it is so obvious, so he disarms them or if he is having a bad day just shoots the stupid jerk!! Im concealed so I,d just wait until I get a chance and shoot the bad guy between the shoulder blades, there is no second place under those circumstances..I base my view on 40 year plus in state and federral law enforcement..Use your head for something besides a hat rack, you life is more important than your ego..I cannot think of ANY reason to carry an exposed firearm..

Depends on where you are. I open carry on the farm all the time. If I need to go to town for something, I just go. I don't change to concealed carry or take my gun off.
Seeing how the town is less than 10,000 and in an area where everyone carries, no one gives it a thought.
If I were going to a big city or an area I did not know, yes, I would go concealed.

quote:

Originally posted by buckeyeshooter:

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
T0 carry your gun openly is just plain stupid by people who have never needed to carry a gun daily..

I carry concealed and if some perp walks into a resturant or place of business and tells all to stick'um up, he knows whos packing openly as it is so obvious, so he disarms them or if he is having a bad day just shoots the stupid jerk!! Im concealed so I,d just wait until I get a chance and shoot the bad guy between the shoulder blades, there is no second place under those circumstances..I base my view on 40 year plus in state and federral law enforcement..Use your head for something besides a hat rack, you life is more important than your ego..I cannot think of ANY reason to carry an exposed firearm..

Depends on where you are. I open carry on the farm all the time. If I need to go to town for something, I just go. I don't change to concealed carry or take my gun off.
Seeing how the town is less than 10,000 and in an area where everyone carries, no one gives it a thought.
If I were going to a big city or an area I did not know, yes, I would go concealed.

Now here is a pair of gun handlers who are using their heads for something other than a target for a criminal to shoot at!
............................... MacD37

Small towns these days are not immune..Yesterday in Boise Idaho where crime is low and the LE is not hardened like they would be in LA or NY..A police officer and several citizens were killed or injured in the Mall by a armed citizen, 2 were killed and 4 wounded or something like that, Its comming folks.

It amazes me how many want to carry guns and have never been in a shoot out, without training 99% of them will panic or piss down their leg, many of whom thought they were bad ass!! most will likly get shot by police or shoot some poor bastard they thought was a bad guy..If allowed to carry I believe one should pass some type of background check and qualify shooting just like or LE people do..Would you nay sayers be content with police not having a background check or trained at the range, but its Ok for John doe who just got out of huntsville to walk around packing a pistol..constitional carry allows most anyone to walk around armed..

The most difficult thing to teach LE officers is when to shoot and when not to shoot..Not sure any of them are totally clear on that, Its a reaction from proper training supposedly, sometimes they are good, sometimes the end up the victim..I suggested to my crew if a perp had a gun in hand shoot him, but with loose carry laws, that won't work today..I don't know what will..

Im a native Texas living in Idaho, come from a ranching family, spent my LE career on the Texas border in EL Paso as a deputy, and later a US Custom Agent and then DEA, almost all on the border..I speak with authority on the subject, but nobody is required to hold the same opinnions and I believe in the constition of the USA and will abide by its rules..

Be careful what you wish for on this subject..To me concealed carry is good, licensing is good, firearms training is good, nothing will be perfect..