My personal preference is a Gov't model 1911. It's effective, proven, but a major pain to carry around covertly.
I've been thinking about a nice mouse gun in 9mm and the Walther looks like what I want.
Any experience with it?

Jim

Walther is nice. Have a look at the stainless Kahr MK9 Elite.

But I was looking in the gun case the other day. 9mm these days have become the same size as former 380 ACP.

Jim

Get a Light Weight Commander 1911 in 45 ACP.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Jim

Get a Light Weight Commander 1911 in 45 ACP.

Even a five-round in titanium w/ a 3" bbl. is going to be larger than the current 9mm available.

And on a more rational note: When is the last time you needed a firearm for defense? And what sort of situation might you encounter where a 9mm would be insufficient?

If you're finding yourself in places where you need a gun for defense, maybe you need to change the places you're frequenting.

I get two jerks, that I have on ignor respopnding to my question.
Surely there's some trust worthy class acts who can answer my question.

Jim

Jim, the PPS also comes in .40 S&W. Is there some reason you want to go with the 9mm?

Jim, you have lots of good options out there. Cruise the stores and fondle a bunch until one jumps out at you. I don't know the Walther PPS, but Kahr 9s or 40s are a nice thin carry. Glock 26/27 (or 19/23) are on the wide side but work for my skinny carcass. If you like the 1911 and it works for you, Kimber and ParaOrd make abbreviated models that carry easier than your gov't model. On the compromise scale though the smaller a pistol gets the more difficult it is to manipulate and shoot well. Goldilocks "just right" medium size works.

Dan
Several of my shooting pards tote the Kahr in 40, and they hurt. The Kahr in 9mm seems controlable and easy to tuck in the hip pocket.
The Glocks.....I just plain don't like the name and they feel tenny. Every year my range has the Glock matchs, to which I refer to as the Glop matches.
I'll take your advice and go fondle a Walther.
My plan is to build a holster for the handgun that conceals the weapon in my right hip pocket to appear like a wallet.

Thanks for your comment.

Jim

Compared everything out there 9mm and above. Kahr PM9 won hands down. Pricy but for quality/weight/size nothing compares. DeSantis pocket holster rounds out the package.

I have had an older Walther and really liked it. It required minor gunsmith work to round out the edges at the rear of the slide to keep it from biting you each time it was fired.

What I do not care for about the new "PPS" is that it is ugly, has that Glock like trigger, is plastic, and only has a 7 round capacity.

I had a Kahr and it is a fine pistol. I did not like the trigger.

I am presently leaning to the CZ2075 RAMI. A bit heavier but with 10 and 14 round mags.

quote:

Originally posted by billinthewild:
What I do not care for about the new "PPS" is that it is ugly,(function over aesthetics) has that Glock like trigger,(one of the best for self defense/combat) is plastic (light weight), and only has a 7 round capacity (thin and easily concealable with enough capacity to take care of most situations).

Do you carry concealed much, Bill?

Gentlemen
Thank you for your input. The Kahr will most likely get the nod. The Walther's grooves, etc look like things to get hung up.
If any one of them were to have a steel frame I'd jump on that one. It's seems plastic is the future

Again thanks

Jim

If you want a real small "9" look at a Rohrbaugh
I sold one of my Kahr 9s for one of these and really like it. It is smaller/thinner.
The Kahr is a great gun though.

Jim,
You won't be disappointed with the Kahr. I have carried one everyday as my back up for seven years and it is small enough to slide in the pocket on my way home after work. It is great in the summer when lighter clothing is in order and you still want to carry discreetly. The one I am currently using is the PM9.
Geoff

arkypete

If I am one of the jerks you have on Ignore how do you know what I posted???

I did not want to offend you, but...

It has been my experience that 1911 kind of guys, that are used to carrying a steel framed Government Model, that has become "kinda heavy", really are amazed, at how much lighter a Light Weight Commander is as a carry gun...


But in my first post I should have stated that I did shoot a buddies Walther PPS in 9mm a little, a few months ago, and it shot good.

However, in actual shootings I am aware of, and have been involved in, the 9mm has a dismal record.

And this includeds 9mm shootings with the H&K MP 5

The 45ACP, and the 44 Mag were MUCH better.

The 357 Mag worked pretty good, and the 38 Special 158gr Winchester lead SWC HP, actually worked good in 4" and 2" guns.

I was forced to carry a 9mm for several years, but I always had a 223 and a 308 in the trunk. Anytime I knew of "great danger" I got out a rifle.

Oh, and on the Kahrs...

When some on my Dept wanted them approved, I was asked by the Range Staff to help in the test, and give my opinion.

So, I shot several different Kahrs, several hundred rounds each, and wrote my recomendation.

I found them to be very reliable, and plenty accurate for what they are for.

I recommended that they be approved for off duty, and backup on duty, and on duty covert carry.

Bare with me while I ramble somewhat...

Handguns are always a compromise-powerful enough to be truly effective in terms of shootability (hit a target to a moderate range with a big and fast enoung bullet to actually stop a fight) winds up being too big to be carried either comfortably or concealed and not ery shootable (blast, recoil etc).

I think (yes, an opinion) that since this self-defense with a firearm process is a compromise, start with what you are willing to accept risk in.

My decision tree goes something like this:

Range: 0-20 yards
Target density: 1-3
Effectiveness: 2 shots/hits optimum (knowing that a fighting caliber wound is 75% survivable I want to approach a 50% stop probability with /o expending all my ammo at one target.

Capacity: mathematically I know I can count only on the rounds aboard with any reliability (murphy's law): 3 perps times 2 hits plus a third shot to account for misses (yes, they DO occur!!) equals 9 aboard.

Caliber: 40 seems to be a good compromise across the spectrum-slightly more capacity/KE, (but less momentum) than a 45 in a given size platform (slightly less than a 9mm) slightly less effective diameter than a 45, but more than a 9mm-default to the 40 with a 150-165 hi performance factory HP (a compromise, again) 90%+ one shot stop cartrdge per latest stats.

Concealable/lightweight a but not so small as to be unable to hit out to spec max range.

Simple to use-since capacity winds up being 9 or so, revolvers are, unfortunatley, out (in my equation, maybe not yours).

GLOCK 27 with factory 9 round mags, one in and on carried staisfies my overall compromise equation nicely. Federal LE HST 165s come out at 980 FS and are as accurate as I can hild them to max spec range (25yds)

I can hit well to 25 yards (under stress, like exercise/then shoot, IDPA matches etc), carries well in either an IWB for summer wear or a strong side Black hawk CQB when wearing a jacket/vest/coat)

I have been carrying said M27 since 1997 and I often forget it is there, lightweight, fighting caliber of decent capacity, very relaible, easy (for me) to shoot well, and effective in my equation. I have never had a failure to chamber, fire, extract or eject period, in over 7k rounds to date. Have replaced all springs/recoil assesmbly several times-once every 3k rounds-as insurance.

Smaller is not necessarily better, to a cetain point. My Beretta and Browning 25s never come along for the day, yet they are the easiest to conceal.... They just add up to what I demand across the spectrum of needs.

Best.

OTOH . . . Glock 26, and 27 are FAT, blocky, awkward, front heavy, poorly balanced, clumsy to hold. We'll forgo the rant about the squishy trigger.

What Glock has to offer is 10 rd. capacity. But for that there are innumerable trade-offs.

Yes, in the eyes of some beholders I suppose, "appearance" is a selection criteria; however, this fat, bulky etc piece of junk has served well over what, 13 years now (jun 97). It always goes bang, launches a 40something diameter bullet at good velocity, is bottle-cap at 15 yards accurate and did I say always goes bang?

My G27 barely is black anymore-the slide is mostly dull gray, replaced night sights two years ago-oh and did swap the stock grooved trigger for a smooth version, recently I had to scrape mortar from the grip checkering from when I did that tile floor, and once the seaweed from inside the stupid space behnd the mag well, mud from when I changed that old ladies' tire and dust from yard work...and did I say it goes boom every time?

Two mad dogs, one possum and a few armadillos notched on the grip (figuratively).

Funny how criteria gets often prioritized by emotion....

Many other guns would no doubt work, just make sure it is as reliable as possible, carries enough of enough on board and train the rest into your mind and body.