another thread got me to thinking about something. people seem to have an inordinate amount of fear where knives are concerned. I actually read somewhere that rapists gain better control over, and cooperation from, victim's when they have a knife versus a gun.

in the other thread there were assailants wielding bats, and one with a knife, and the knife got more focus it seemed than the bat.

I worked for the hospitals for a time, and chatted a few times with one of the ER doctors at the facility that had the level one trauma center. He told me that military doctors actually came there for "battlefield training" or something like that. because of the murder rate/gang activity etc. he told me he'd been in there when the floor was just covered in blood.

He also told me the worst injuries he'd ever seen were caused by baseball bats. the damage is so extensive, a person throws their arms up to defend themselves, broken arms, then head/neck/shoulders.

IMO, and for me personally, a bat bothers me much more than a knife.

Your opinions?

Red

A knife scares me more.

You can "step into a bat" and lessen the blow...

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
A knife scares me more.

You can "step into a bat" and lessen the blow...

+1
A bat can also be grabbed and wrestled away from BG a lot easier than a knife...

Knives are smaller and hence more easily concealed.
Peter.

hmmm true on a bat, they are also slow, but they have great reach. a knife can be back away from. I guess I just have a fear of "bludgeoning" .

I did have a kid in high school go at me with a bat, I came in on him. I've had knives pulled on me as well (three times) and I actually moved IN on two of those times. guys that don't have any knife fighting skills normally do some display and waving of it, which can give you a break.

I wish I was fast, then running would be an option. as it is I figure they'll just catch me and then I'll be fighting AND winded.

Red

Interesting! A bat needs a good swing I would think, which is fairly well telegraphed and gives one time to react, moving in would probably be the best but is counter intuitive and would need training and practice.

"I've had knives pulled on me as well (three times) ". Jeez what do you do for a living or do you just live in a tough neighborhood!
Peter.

Several studies involving altercations with edged weapons have been conducted by some of the larger law enforcement agencies and DOD units over the years.

The studies of which I am aware attempt to duplicate a wide range of attacks and altercations where one or more of the participants is armed with an edged weapon. The scenarios involve men on men, women on women, women on men and men on women, in varied numbers, environments and mixed configurations. The participants represent a wide range of differences in age, physiology, physical fitness and personal defense skills. The edged weapons, made of rubber or plastic, represent a wide range from small pocket knives to machetes and swords.

The "wounds" suffered by the participants in these scenarios were evaluated by competent medical personnel and rated on a scale from "non-life threatening" to "serious" to "life threatening" to "fatal".

The overwhelming evidence is that when one is attacked by an assailant with an edged weapon the potential of recieving a serious if not life threatening or fatal wound is almost 90%, (with assumptions made for the intent of the assailant). Even so-called Martial Arts experts in greater than average physical fitness sustained, as a group, a very high percentage of life-threatening to fatal wounds.

The knife will always be the greater threat. Shoot the guy with the knife first.

As for blunt instruments, as others have said, one can always move into and under the threat. If you have no avenue of escape, get close. As close as you can. This effectively takes the weapon out of play.

Shoot the guy with the knife first.

great, glad I'm reading this now AFTER the knife incidents.

when I was younger we lived in not the best but not the worst area, but I was "racially noticeable" I guess you could say. white redheads stand out anywhere, more so when they're rare. In two of the cases I think the intent was to frighten or surprise, not necessarily attack, but I was always taught to not wait to find out intent.

Thanks TWL for the info, that settles it in my mind.

Red

on the Spike TV show "Deadliest Warriors" where they do scientific comparisions between weapons used in the scenarios they fight. The mafia fighter used a baseball bat. The energy transmitted was one of the highest in the whole series and it easily broke bones and shattered skulls. I'd take the knife attack anytime after seeing the damage the Louisville Slugger did!!

Any weapon can be very deadly I know of two cases of death by one punch to the head.

The movies that show guys that keep getting up after taking blows to the head ect with any impact weapon are just false.

If some ones threatens me with body harm from a impact or edge weapon I'll do my best by what ever means I have on me to stop that attack. Knowing what great harm they can do with just one blow or cantact with the.

Since P dog shooter brought up the punch part, I'm reminded of the kung fu movies where they break a guy's neck in the blink of an eye with one hand on the jaw and the other on the back of the head. I've never done this to a person, and suspect it would be easier, but I did break a deer's neck with my bare hands once and it was a bitch.

I was working on a ranch, and had a pack of feral dogs chase a young buck right through the woods where I was fixing fence. The buck had apparently been hit by a car, and his back leg was broken at the hock. twisted around, and hanging loosely. The dogs finally brought him down and I ran over to chase them away. Not being near a truck or anything at all, and not even having a pocket knife on me, I decided to break his neck to put him out of his misery. I'll say that at this point I was about 19 or 20 and hard as nails. It took me three tries to finally break that deer's neck and I only did it by twisting and putting all of my weight down on it.

I'm sure the b ball bat can be a devastating weapon, but the kung fu neck twist is complete bullshit.

Give me the bat anytime.
You take the knife.
You come and get me.

Bat hell . . .

tire iron, crowbar, 2x4, shovel, axe, bottle, chair . . .

There are weapons everywhere if you bother to think about them. I had a nut case try to choke me in Safeway. I took him out with a can of Lima beans to the side of his head -- right off the shelf.

Never bring a knife to a gun fight. I guess we could add bats. I'd be more worried about a bat. Most yahoos don't know how to use a knife.

screw bats and knives, the lima beans rock! I'm busting up right now. what a great story, and what a hilarious thought the guy telling the other guys in jail the story.

My friends and I joke, as a gag gift cycle that got way out of hand I ended up with a giant double sided pink rubber dildo that glows in the dark. we joke that if somebody breaks in I'm not shooting them, I'm beating them with that thing, cause it'll make for some great stories.

Red

I dunno, as in most situations, a lot would depend on the guy with the weapon, his training and his state of mind. My only real observation is you can get cut pretty badly with a knife and keep fighting/defending yourself but if you take a solid hit with a baseball bat it is likely game over as far as your defense goes.

Whether this story is true or not, I don't know, but a now dead Marine Raider friend of mine related to me the story of one of his US Marine Japanese martial arts trainers who was in a bar just after WWII in Ca and was attacked by some locals who thought they'd teach the Jap a lesson. He took 3 of them out with a rolled up newspaper..........

quote:

You can "step into a bat" and lessen the blow...

BS. Anyone who thinks they can reduce the impact of a blunt trauma weapon by getting hit by it has some serious thinking to do.

Bludgeons reduce the ability of a defender by breaking them down blow by blow.

Avoid getting hit at all costs-trade space for time. Assume that anyone with a bludgeon and within 20 +/- feet is as dangerous as a blade wiedling threat. Shoot them both in rapid succession, nearest to farthest, or flee!

Oh, yeah, make sure you are carrying a fighting caliber gun and acouterments.... Quit watching action adventure movies and go train.

Andrew,
I've seen demonstrations about "getting inside" with an impact weapon. The concept is to not get hit with the high speed end while hopefully gaining co-control of the slower moving handle end. Takes training and a huge set of balls, I'm in the shoot them severely school of thinking.

I helped investigate an assault complaint one time which occured near a construction site. A couple of the participants in a large fight picked up some sections of schedule 40 PVC pipe and "went to town" sending several people to the hospital with wounds that looked more like something produced by an edged weapon than an impact weapon. Apparently the PVC was much quicker to swing than a bat and still had enough mass to create some ghastly wounds.

P14 and American Express: don't leave home without either...

A bat is more dangerous, 99% of the kids in this country grew up playing a little baseball. Even girls played softball these past few decades.

Like it was said before lots depends on the person using the weapon.

I have had guys try and get inside of my baton before they ended up in hurt city.

A well trained figher well not only use the bat to swing with but use it for jabs ,blocking ect.

Having spent lots of time training with lots of diifferat weapons I'll take the one with most reach. If its between a knife and impact weapon I'll take the longer one. If it is between a knife and immpact weapon of the same length or close to the same length I'll take the edge weapon.

Say a 36 inch bat or a 36 inch sword. I'll take the sword. If its bewteen a staff and sword I'll take the sword. A glancing blow from the staff may or may not cause damage a glancing blow for the sword is most likely leaving you badly cut.

Having been there and done that I have no desire to get in close and rough with someone. It is way to easy to get badlly hurt, maimed, crippled and or dead.

quote:

Originally posted by buckeyeshooter:
on the Spike TV show "Deadliest Warriors" where they do scientific comparisions between weapons used in the scenarios they fight. The mafia fighter used a baseball bat. The energy transmitted was one of the highest in the whole series and it easily broke bones and shattered skulls. I'd take the knife attack anytime after seeing the damage the Louisville Slugger did!!

I chased the perp down who stabbed me with a 2X4, smashing & swinging while running after him.. I broke the 2X4 over his head edgewise. The perp collapsed by a pile of 8"concrete blocks. I then proceeded to throw concrete blocks on him. I was stopped when I tried to deal the coup de grace to his head.
Me 40 stiches.
The perp, fractured skull, 2 broken wrists , 2 broken arms, numerous lacerations , fractured ribs & broken jaw, & lost a few teeth.

The perp had stabbed 3 people in 3 mins. , I was the last.

I would much rather be stabbed.

It was on a construction job.

quote:

The perp had stabbed 3 people in 3 mins. , I was the last.

I would much rather be stabbed.

Placement is what counts same with bullets> I rather be hit in the arm then stabbed in the chest.

Those who says things like that obviously have never been hit by a bat
When I was a teenager out of curiosity I and a couple of buddies went to see the demonstrations at the national convention in Chicago back in 1967 or so, went to Marquette Park where a big demonstration was going on. There was a big police presence and surer than heck a fight broke out and during the melee an order to clear the park was given. The police were in full riot gear armed with fairly long billy sticks (looked like the clubs that TSA has OKed) well surer than heck I got caught up in a crowd of people and I couldn't get out of the way a cop swinging one of those crowd stoppers and I got whacked in the back of my leg, I went down like a cheap hooker and couldn't get up due to the welt that developed, thank god the cop had more targets in front of him as there was a line of people flopping around like fish out of the water, those clubs will incapacitate and probably kill if it wasn't used properly

quote:

those clubs will incapacitate and probably kill if it wasn't used properly

Most any thing can kill you depending on the use

I rather not take a hit with a club or a stabe with a knife.

Have done both Its all about location. I club to the body armor wasn't bad.

I still have effects of a stabe wound to leg 10 years later.

Did you suffer any long last effects from being hit with the bat.

I used to keep a piece of pipe under the seat of my truck -- about 2 feet long. No, it wasn't an illegal club -- in Texas -- it was my jack handle, or that was my story at least if I ever had to answer for it. I'd rather have that in most knife fights than a knife. Permit to carry ended the need for it.